Raptor Tactica

[Kol Saresk]

Okay, don't know what happened to it the first time. Anyway, here is a link to some tactics for raptors on warseer right here. What I was trying to ask is if these tactics are legitimately useable and if they still jive with the current Codex?

[diabloelmo]

Not sure if legitimate mistake, or very clever troll. Nothing there because they are useless?

[Kol Saresk]

I don't know what happened because there was a whole post there. When I first posted it. Like three hours ago.

[The Colossus]

It's there. Interesting read.

[Kierdale]

As someone commented in that thread, it's pretty good advice for all jump infantry, not only Raptors. Good stuff.

[Panda_]

Can anyone quote the post ?

 

As I try play NL to its fundamentals (even if I know too well that NL != Raptors), I try to field one unit of those and it's difficult (read impossible) to make some good use of it. I'd really like to read it.

 

Btw, I'm under the feeling that most players here play NL too. The rest of us beeing WE, WW, or DG.

[Kol Saresk]

here

Right there is the link to the Warseer post, just click on "here" in the quote.

 

What happened earlier that Diabloelmo and I were talking about was that the OP was blank and I had to edit so there was something there.

[the jeske]

I realy almost stoped reading after the first part and the illegal "tactic" of placing models on models . is also full of stuff like "can be joined by an awesome power house of HQ in the form of a lord/sorc" when clearly both of those are far far away from being a power house. Even now am not sure if this isnt a troll post[kind of a big , but then again I seen longer] . I mean only 2/3 of all games are about scoring , so dont worry if they dont score . maybe if it was 1/10 games are about scoring and you randomly pick scenarios for each game , it would be ok . Sure they can contest . sure unlike a csm unit they can charge turn one [with lash or if opponent moves and disembarks in to a charge , but then your probably dont want to charge them] , but the games are rarly won with first turn charges [specialy when lash has such a hard time to actualy work] , they are won on turn 3-4 , and then jump pack units suffer the most because unlike those slower csm/RAS/GH/etc they dont sit in rhinos which blocks incoming fire . who cares if a unit of raptors moves faster or that it can contest[as if a unit of csm or any other troop from the chaos dex couldnt] , if the raptor unit has a bigger chance to be dead when needed . And if it isnt dead because you hid it then you were playing with X points less and there is a good chance that those scoring units more important then the raptors are dead. unless someone tries to team play and do maxmimum number of draw games it isnt a viable tactic to play .

 

 

 

Then comes the part of how cheap they are . 3 termicids are cheaper and cant be counter unless someone plays GK . more melta shots for cheap both units probably dead on opponenys turn . 6power weapon A vs 10normal A . only those 6 power weapon attacks are +2sv and will maybe draw more plasma/melta shots then the 5 raptors . 5 raptors are rolled after a turn of shoting from a meq unit [unless they got a champ with a fist , but then they are no longer cheap] .

the comperation to oblits made me lol . long range support in an army with no other viable long range support in FA or elite , traded [raptors cheaper then 150 are not 0pts the points have to come from somewhere .] for 2 melta on meq which maybe will hurt something on turn 2 . when oblits are there to shake/stun from turn 1 . stupid idea.

 

 

 

12 man raptor MoN raptors were the other thing that made me lol . in the age of melta , long fangs, razor spams a screenless single jump pack unit is suppose to be tough . it is suppose to tar pit maybe ? for how many points and for how long considering other meq armies wont run and will roll it because of closer support units . The fact that a unit like that hurts tau doesnt prove anything. any unit that reaches hth with tau is good . for the same points 2 pm units in rhinos will do the same , be 2 targets and have 4 melta instead of 2 . sure they wont have fists and there is only going to be 10 of them[well 2x5 to be exact] but still this means those broadsides are not going to be shoting when ours[aka the oblits] will.

the part about buying wings to screen LR [when the chaos FAQ explicitly says to have wings you have to models them , so taking wings on raptors would mean every hq we take would be unable to take wings because of WYSIWYG conflict.] was funny too . my idea is to make them also carry huge banner[aka icons] or huge siege shields . with that kind of thinking you block even more LoS [good luck at trying to pull that off in any tournament or non tournament game] .

[Warsmith Aznable]

I don't know, I think there's got to be a better one out there. I don't read the Dangerous Terrain rules as being able to reassign wounds taken, and I also don't read the rule about Jump Infantry placement on top of impassible terrain to include other models the way he does.

 

The usefulness of Raptors can be more succinctly stated as "flying lord retinue", "mobile anti-tank specialists", and "rapid reaction".

 

The con to each one is that they're fairly expensive ways to do it compared to what may be arguably better choices in the current codex.

 

To be a retinue I'd always give them an Icon and take more than the minimum. Deep-striking a large unit like this, especially with a Lord or Sorcerer in it, is risky. But then again so is leaving them out to get shot at early. If you don't hold them in Reserve they need to be making the absolute best use of movement and cover.

 

For mobile anti-tank I'd take the minimum and not fuss with an Icon. They'll probably die quickly, but if they're well tooled up they can take out something big. If enemy return fire doesn't take them out in their first active round, then you've got the bonus of them running around the enemy's backfield making him distracted.

 

For rapid reaction you keep them moving around and out of HTH until the endgame, or in Reserves. Then they rush in using their long moves to either contest an unmolested enemy objective, or to reinforce a flagging unit in HTH.

 

For a retinue I'd give them Plasma guns, and likely whatever Icon that matched the Mark of the Lord or Sorcerer they're with.

 

For anti-tank I'd go melta, and not bother with an Icon.

 

For rapid reaction flamers, or flamer/melta, and an Icon of Chaos Glory.

[Kol Saresk]

It was written back in 2009 which IIRC was before the rise of the BA and the SW armies wasn't it?

[VIIILegionaire.]

I didn't know Raptors could run. Is this true? Would they have to move as infantry in the movement phase and then run?

[Kristoff]

I didn't know Raptors could run. Is this true? Would they have to move as infantry in the movement phase and then run?

 

Yes they can Run, but then, not be able to Assault right afterward. Not always a concern, but something to keep in mind.

 

As far as I can remember, they Run on ground like any other Marine, not being Fleet of Wing like Vespid are.

[Brother Nihm]

I didn't know Raptors could run. Is this true?

Yes they can! Welcome to 5th edition! :)

 

 

Also,

Ignoring the rules and tactical mistakes the guy makes in his post, it still doesn't change the fact that whatever Raptors can do, regular CSM can do better and cheaper.

The reasons have already been stated above.

[VIIILegionaire.]

I love the raptor, but I haven't been using them. I trashed my old models, I want to do some new ones, more of a fluff thing really.

[Kristoff]

I love the raptor, but I haven't been using them. I trashed my old models, I want to do some new ones, more of a fluff thing really.

 

Any specific direction you're looking at? There is a rumor somewhere that there will be a difference between Raptors and Chaos Assault Marines in the next codex (whenever THAT comes out) so there may actually be 2 sets of models for them (eventually).

 

For myself, I took some Assault Marines and the Chaos CC arms, extra Chaos shoulder pads, chests and heads and put them together for some Chaos Assault Marines (since that's all Raptors are in the current codex). I've got half a squad painted and the other half built and primed, but no pics as yet.

[diabloelmo]

I've built some from some assault marine legs, CSM weapons and shoulders, heads without horns, and the current raptor backpacks. With a few extra bitz and pieces, they look pretty sweet.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Slightly off-topic, but wouldn't a five man unit with two meltas be an effective suicide squad if nothing else?

[Kol Saresk]

If I remember what Jeske told me, that is basically all Raptors are good for. Get them past the guys, pop the tank and die.