Competitive thunderwolves army

[Cmdr Shepard]

Greetings,

 

I'd like to build a Space Wolves army focused on Thunderwolf Cavalry. Do you have any suggestion about the army composition and tactics? Is it possible to build a competitive army?

 

I usually play matches between 1500 and 2000 pts.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

[Simo429]

Being competetive as in will win as many games as you lose at tournaments yeah I think it can be done.

 

Win tournaments. Unfortunately not, Grey Knights, DE, Necrons, leaf blower and ever increasing numbers of Tau mean that that wont happen.

[Captain Idaho]

I dunno, I believe Necrons might struggle against Thunderwolves? Unless you know something I have yet to figure out? (please share, I'm still getting used to the new Necron Codex)

 

Thunderwolves are extremely costly and in armies around 1,500pts to 1,750pts this could mean making your list too small. (i.e. Points to spend on other areas to make a list competitive - usually numbers takes a hit to squeeze TW into a list)

 

It's not that they suck, it's that some armies will start with a big advantage over you. Not quite paper-rock-scissors, but if you do get hit by a Demolisher Cannon or Orbital Bombardment, or even a Manticore, and the unit dies then you are already at a disadvantage.

 

Some of the folks here would be better at explaining the tactics of overcoming such things as the occur, since I'm a Marines player and talking from the perspective of killing the quickly and "phew, glad they're gone".

[Simo429]

Necrons are capable of pumping out a lot of firepower, as you say thunderwolves are costly, its torrents of fire that they struggle with. Same with guard its not the manticores you worry about, its hydras.

[Jonny Wolf]

To pull off a Thunderwolf army you have to have another serious and viable threat that forces your opponent to decide what's scarier (i.e. needs to be dealt with first).

 

Drop Podding 10 Grey Hunters with two melta guns each right into their face, or having lots of long fangs forces your opponent to spread his shooting around.

 

Then, to save points and take advantage of wound allocation - mix up your TWC with different equipment, not just storm shields.

 

But it IS possible. Hard, but possible.

[jmurph]

Umm, hydras aren't *that* scary to any 3+ AS model. A squad of 2 puts out 8 TL AC shots, which is about 2 wounds after saves. Manticore is dangerous as the big blast can cover multiple models and any failed save is a dead TWC. Worse is vet plasma squads or plasma russes. GKs kill TWC dead in CC.

 

TWC are too costly and not resilient enough to make up the backbone of your list. However, they make excellent counter charge and support units. Running them behind rhinos can also afford them some cover. As Johnny Wolf said, it's all about presenting multiple threats.

[Simo429]

Hydras and their consistent level of fire are what made leaf blower so good. I'd put a good amount of money that they are one of forge worlds best selling kits.

 

Plenty of shots with a reroll to hit at a decent strength. They work to the essence of 40k, attrition, keep making your opponent take saves and eventually he will fail them.

[RatGod]

Im now creating all wolves army in 1750 points it has Canis(with 2 wolves),3* Wolf Lords(each lord has 2 wolves ,2*3 TWC,and 2*15 wolves, it looks nice and i want to create thematic army (hunting pack) :D

 

I think it cant win tournament but it can win 3 out of 6 for sure,and if you are lucky with dices and no GK even more in my opinion ;)

[Captain Idaho]

If Imperial Guard players use their Hydra's to attack Thunderwolves instead of battering your transports, Typhoons or Dreadnoughts, then you're on to a winner.

 

The Manticore can hit the whole unit multiple times (D3 large templates) and that is pretty darn scary.

 

Perhaps putting as many wounds as you can on the Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with Saga of the Bear (you get a 2+ save right?) might be a good way of prolonging the life expectancy of the unit?

[Godhead]

I've played TWC/TWL's since the new codex came out. From my experience TWC are awesome, but they eat points up really fast. If you get a string of lucky dice they can win a game all by themselves, although this is very rare (for me at least).

 

What seems to be the most effective counter to my TWC and lord is being assaulted by 3 or 4 squads of stuff. Shooting I can wound allocate around enough that it is minimized pretty well. In assault, they get tarpitted, and slowly ground down. Even if they win the fight, It ends up taking so long and they are so diminished that their role in the game is pretty much over.

 

Recently I have been having more success in a list with 2 3 man squads of TWC. I have been keeping them light on the wargear. I also run two squads of wolf scouts that has helped force my opponent away from the table edges and closer to the twc. It is a pretty nice synergy. If you plan to go heavy on the TWC, then you'll need to go light on everything else. My recent TWC lists have been backed up by razorspam. My razorbacks are only equipped with the humble heavy bolter and at 2k I'm fielding 5 of them. The fire power they put out coupled with 3 packs of long fangs is AMAZING.

 

I have also found that by having two small squads versus having one larger squad with an attached lord that it spreads fire around well enough that even if one squad gets weakened by enemy fire the other squad is pretty much unscathed. Also I have found that by having two squads that can back each other up is more effective than trying to back them up with GH's. They just don't have the same mobility.

 

These are just my experiences from playing with TWC. YMMV, and I haven't won any MAJOR tourneys, but I do play against a lot of gamey tournament players who do win or place top 3 in these events. This is my experiences from playing them, so take all this with as many grains of salt as necessary.

 

A humble Grey Hunter squad of 5 guys in a bolter back with minimal wargear is 115 points. Realize that by doing this your scoring units are fragile, but then again, in every game annihilation is a win condition :) With enough squads of TWC, they will invariably draw fire away from your troops. Sadly I think the lord is a points sink that is fun and awesome, but hero hammer doesn't win games anymore. At least not at higher point games. Low point games, and a TWL can almost win the game solo.

[canus wolfrum]

Im now creating all wolves army in 1750 points it has Canis(with 2 wolves),3* Wolf Lords(each lord has 2 wolves ,2*3 TWC,and 2*15 wolves, it looks nice and i want to create thematic army (hunting pack) ^_^

 

I think it cant win tournament but it can win 3 out of 6 for sure,and if you are lucky with dices and no GK even more in my opinion :tu:

 

Well you won't win any games that require you to hold/capture objectives as you have no scoring units (barring a rout of course).

[Simo429]

If Imperial Guard players use their Hydra's to attack Thunderwolves instead of battering your transports, Typhoons or Dreadnoughts, then you're on to a winner.

 

The Manticore can hit the whole unit multiple times (D3 large templates) and that is pretty darn scary.

 

Perhaps putting as many wounds as you can on the Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with Saga of the Bear (you get a 2+ save right?) might be a good way of prolonging the life expectancy of the unit?

You only get a 2 up save if you put him in runic armour.

 

The issue is that if you have thunderwolves you probably won't have a massive amount of other stuff, to get a big squad of thunderwolves + a tooled up thunderlord you are looking at 500 points easy.

 

Also the hydras will generally be paired with a psyker battle squadron, thats one wound that you need to take before you are running like a bitch off the board in the first turn. Yet another nasty combo that really nullifies thunderwolves.

[elithren]

Actually, they can work really well. 2 weeks ago I took second in a 1k point tournament due to the fact I had 9 thunderwolves. There wasn't anything that could handle that besides the Grey knight player who beat me for second (ran dreadnights and passed his force weapon tests). If you dont do the wound allocation, you can bring more thunderwolves as SS aren't worth it at low point ranges, more wounds the better!

 

My list: battle leader - TWM, tooth necklace, SS, saga of the hunter, frost weapon

 

2 5 man packs of grey hunters with meltaguns

 

1 3 man TWC

1 5 man TWC with thunderhammer

 

2 5 man packs of long fangs with 4 missiles each.

 

Loved the look on people's faces when I told them how many thunderwolves I ran. Pretty straight forward, charge up with the 3 man first and follow with the 5 man. Hunter gives the 5 man pack (with battle leader) a 3+ cover so pretty cheap way to take a SS for every TWC in the 5 man pack.

[Captain Idaho]

That low a points value does really skew the balance of 40k. Many armies, particularly Space Marines, will struggle to have a legal army and take decent offensive units because their minimum points investment is so low. At larger points games there is much more chance of coming up against a couple Demolisher Cannons or the right amount of firepower to wittle them down.

 

If Imperial Guard players use their Hydra's to attack Thunderwolves instead of battering your transports, Typhoons or Dreadnoughts, then you're on to a winner.

 

The Manticore can hit the whole unit multiple times (D3 large templates) and that is pretty darn scary.

 

Perhaps putting as many wounds as you can on the Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with Saga of the Bear (you get a 2+ save right?) might be a good way of prolonging the life expectancy of the unit?

You only get a 2 up save if you put him in runic armour.

 

The issue is that if you have thunderwolves you probably won't have a massive amount of other stuff, to get a big squad of thunderwolves + a tooled up thunderlord you are looking at 500 points easy.

 

Also the hydras will generally be paired with a psyker battle squadron, thats one wound that you need to take before you are running like a bitch off the board in the first turn. Yet another nasty combo that really nullifies thunderwolves.

 

You're probably right about the Hydra thing and I agree in general with the others too ;) Just seeing if there was a positive we could make of it if they are taking the Thunderwolf Wolf Lord anyway.

[Light Warden]

In general, you want to place as many weapons/attacks on the board as possible for the fewest points possible. In fluff TWC are awesome, but competitive, it's like any one trick pony. Granted I do play in favor of the GH saturation with medium/low armour saturation. Psychologically, people can't seem to pick their target that way as none are more or less threatening than the others.

[Mar Bloodaxe]

These are just my experiences from playing with TWC. YMMV, and I haven't won any MAJOR tourneys, but I do play against a lot of gamey tournament players who do win or place top 3 in these events. This is my experiences from playing them, so take all this with as many grains of salt as necessary.

 

 

 

Dave,

 

I have a similar list to yours minus the extra wolf squad. You have more razors than me. I use 3 Heavy Bolter ones (1 long fang unit gets one), wolf scouts, 2 full squads of GH in rhinos, 3 long fang units, Rune priest, Frost/TWL 4 TWC, some WG to go into squads. I use the Long fangs to keep the TWC alive long enough to disrupt, coupled with the scouts. I might have to exchange list with you to compare notes. :devil:

[Godhead]

These are just my experiences from playing with TWC. YMMV, and I haven't won any MAJOR tourneys, but I do play against a lot of gamey tournament players who do win or place top 3 in these events. This is my experiences from playing them, so take all this with as many grains of salt as necessary.

 

 

 

Dave,

 

I have a similar list to yours minus the extra wolf squad. You have more razors than me. I use 3 Heavy Bolter ones (1 long fang unit gets one), wolf scouts, 2 full squads of GH in rhinos, 3 long fang units, Rune priest, Frost/TWL 4 TWC, some WG to go into squads. I use the Long fangs to keep the TWC alive long enough to disrupt, coupled with the scouts. I might have to exchange list with you to compare notes. ;)

 

 

No problem. PM me your cell, or we can compare notes at the next game of talisman.