Dark Angel sucessors that aren't obsessed with the Fallen?

[TrashMan]

Is something like that even possible?

[Ramell]

Most certainly. In fact, I'd say that a Salamanders successor that was obsessed with he Fallen would be impossible.

 

It's the Dark Angels and their successors who are obsessed with the Fallen, as the Fallen were Dark Angels traitors.

And I don't really know enough about the Dark Angels to answer your question when relating to DA successors.

[Aqui]

Is something like that even possible?

 

Do you mean Dark Angels? The Salamanders have no connection with the Fallen. If so, then I think it is possible, but only if they are a relatively new Chapter and not brought up to speed on past events (as in the Command Cadre sent from the Parent Chapter to lead the new one are NOT of the Inner Circle...).

[Hellios]

I'm pretty sure on of the Dark Angels successor chapters isn't obsessed... at least to the same degree as the others as they don't feel they share the guilt for the sins of their brothers... I could be wrong here...

[Bryan Blaire]

If they consider themselves part of the Unforgiven, as in they actually know they are Dark Angels gene seed lineage or this gets found out, then they will have some inclination toward the Fallen issue. Even the Angels of Absolution, who consider their own "sin" concerning the Fallen expunged still consider themselves responsible for punishing the traitors, per the 4th Edition Dark Angels codex. If no one has ever pointed out to them that they have DA gene seed markers and they've never learned the truth of the Fallen from the Dark Angels or other Unforgiven, then they would have no knowledge of the Fallen at all.

 

If they are actually Salamanders successors and know about the Fallen, then there is an entire Legion of the Emperor's finest troops that want to have a talk with said successors down in Interrogation Cell 42... Take them away!

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

Most newly created chapters will be cadered by marines from chapters of their own genetic lineage, and the new chapter master would most likely be a former captain of one of those chapters, so there'd automatically be an inner circle member at the head of most new DA successor chapters, making sure the new chapter will be as much a member of the Unforgiven as any other. And the Unforgiven, when they need to supply the cadre, will most certainly make sure the is an IC member present, most likely several.

 

I do not think it is impossible for a chapter to be founded with DA genetic material but cadered by marines from a different lineage, though. In that case, the chapter will probably have completely non-DA traditions and culture and no one from the Unforgiven will ever tell them a word about the Fallen. However, for fluff and gaming purposes, that chapter will not at all look anything like a DA successor at all.

[TrashMan]

Is something like that even possible?

 

Do you mean Dark Angels? The Salamanders have no connection with the Fallen. If so, then I think it is possible, but only if they are a relatively new Chapter and not brought up to speed on past events (as in the Command Cadre sent from the Parent Chapter to lead the new one are NOT of the Inner Circle...).

 

 

Oh....oh. :) :D :o

What a moment of DERP from me . Sorry, was late when I was typing and I obviously wasn't thinking. I mean Dark Angels, not Salamanders.

[Aurelius Rex]

Up until the last DA codex came out, it was generally agreed that non-second founding successors would be unlikely to know of the Fallen. This was on the basis that given the lengths the inner circle DA go to protect their dirty secret, and their general paranoia about it getting out, that they wouldn't risk the information being released to a successor. Hey - they don't even let everyone within their own chapter know the (whole) truth, so another chapter knowing it would just increase the likelihood that it would get out.

 

Then that was either clarified or retconned with the last DA 'dex, with seemingly lots of them knowing the story.

 

However if you are after a DA successor chapter who doesn't know of the fallen then I say go for it, and good luck to you! Sounds like a very interesting spin - say the founding cadre was either not trusted with the story of the fallen for some reason, or the cadre never incorporated the legend into the developing chapter for fear of it getting out.

 

In fact it sounds like a nice idea - and leads to some potentially interesting sub-plots, such as them being kept at a distance by the other Unforgiven, and why they have interrogator-chaplains when there is no-one for them to interrogate... Do they instead interrogate captured traitor legionnaires, and how would they react if they ever found out the secret of the fallen? Betrayed? Disbelieving? :)

[Inquisitor Fox]

Fix'd your title for you, carry on :D

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

The thing about making a DA-successor that doesn't know of the Fallen is that there is nothing about them then that makes them be like DA. They wouldn't have a Deathwing, a Ravenwing, Interrogator Chaplains, or an Inner Circle. They'd be vanilla marines with DA geneseed. Pointless, in my opinion.

[Doghouse]

Just because they don't know about the Fallen doesn't mean that they don't have similar organisations in place or don't adhere to the structure of the DA though. They wouldn't need the Inner Circle aspect but the rest could be explained away quite easily and would serve to protect the secrecy of the chapter further by showing that the Death Wing, Raven Wing, etc are common aspects of all DA successors.

[Hellios]

The Relictors don't and they are part Dark Angel :)

 

Sooo I think the reason most Dark Angel chapters follow the Dark Angels structure is because the Dark Angels chapters all listen to the Grand Master of the inner circle... Except a chapter like the Relictors wouldn't be trusted due to not being true Dark Angels.

[march10k]

Ah, you silly modernists...and gullible ones at that. There's no such thing as a DA successor...only different chapters of the first legion... we paint our armor slightly differently and pass on the fiction that we're truly separate organizations whose chapter masters aren't subordinate to anyone but the emperor, and to the extent that any chapter of marines is, the imperium in order to maintain appearances and avoid causing the administratum needless alarm...but in truth, you gotta think a little bigger. Our legion is to the ultramarines chapter as each of our chapters is to an ultramarines company... But you didn't hear that from me :)

[Jareddm]

The Relictors don't and they are part Dark Angel :)

 

No, I'm pretty sure the Relictors have an unknown geneseed. Are you thinking of the Consecrators? Because they're most definitely obsessed with the Fallen.

[Captain Semper]

Ah, you silly modernists...and gullible ones at that. There's no such thing as a DA successor...only different chapters of the first legion... we paint our armor slightly differently and pass on the fiction that we're truly separate organizations whose chapter masters aren't subordinate to anyone but the emperor, and to the extent that any chapter of marines is, the imperium in order to maintain appearances and avoid causing the administratum needless alarm...but in truth, you gotta think a little bigger. Our legion is to the ultramarines chapter as each of our chapters is to an ultramarines company... But you didn't hear that from me ;)

 

THIS^^^ :)

 

The thing is that the DA Inner Circle permiates all DA primogenotor Chapters and it's strongly implied that they lead all Unforgiven. Now 40k is a big open-ended place and you can justify everything but really, why bother? What makes DAs what they are, is the Fallen story line. Otherwise they are a just Codex chapter...

[TrashMan]

The thing about making a DA-successor that doesn't know of the Fallen is that there is nothing about them then that makes them be like DA. They wouldn't have a Deathwing, a Ravenwing, Interrogator Chaplains, or an Inner Circle. They'd be vanilla marines with DA geneseed. Pointless, in my opinion.

 

 

Would that be so bad? It effectively permits one to make a custom chapeter, but retain the use of DA geneseed and still have it be plausible.

 

Does DA successor have to be like DA? No. Take a look at Black Templars...do they resemble the original legion of Dorn? Not much.

 

This gives me something to work with. Possibly re-writing my old DIY chapter to have it's origins be DA.

 

Possibly the training cadre getting attacked and the inner circle members dying. Or most of the training cadre dying. There could be any number of reasons why anew chapter would not know or why it would diverge so much from the pregonitor.

[Jareddm]

Would that be so bad? It effectively permits one to make a custom chapeter, but retain the use of DA geneseed and still have it be plausible.

 

Does DA successor have to be like DA? No. Take a look at Black Templars...do they resemble the original legion of Dorn? Not much.

 

This gives me something to work with. Possibly re-writing my old DIY chapter to have it's origins be DA.

 

Possibly the training cadre getting attacked and the inner circle members dying. Or most of the training cadre dying. There could be any number of reasons why anew chapter would not know or why it would diverge so much from the pregonitor.

 

Agreed. I was part of a DIY chapter called the War Brothers. When the chapter was first founded, a clerical error had attached them to a Black Templar crusade to act as their mentors. This heavly influenced the chapter and by the time they were tracked down and approached by the Dark Angels, the chapter master rejected membership into the inner circle, feeling that nothing good could come from a chapter with so many layers of secrets.

[Retributis]

But, and this is the crucial part really, what does being a DA successor give a DIY chapter over being from any other Legion if you remove the whole "hunting the fallen" part?

[Jareddm]

But, and this is the crucial part really, what does being a DA successor give a DIY chapter over being from any other Legion if you remove the whole "hunting the fallen" part?

 

A crappy relationship with other chapters of the Unforgiven.

A connection with any number of other secrets besides the Fallen that the Unforgiven may have developed in the time since the heresy.

A way for the enemies of mankind to infiltrate a chapter of the Lion's bloodline that may be seen as more susceptible.

[Captain Semper]

A crappy relationship with other chapters of the Unforgiven.

 

Why would that be desireable? Why bother engineering a DYI chapter to have a crappy relationship with the Unforgiven? Weird...

 

A connection with any number of other secrets besides the Fallen that the Unforgiven may have developed in the time since the heresy.

 

Such as? :)

 

A way for the enemies of mankind to infiltrate a chapter of the Lion's bloodline that may be seen as more susceptible.

 

Now we are getting somewhere... counter-counter insurgency! That could be an interesting (if heretical) line of thinking! :D

[Jareddm]

A crappy relationship with other chapters of the Unforgiven.

 

Why would that be desireable? Why bother engineering a DYI chapter to have a crappy relationship with the Unforgiven? Weird...

 

A connection with any number of other secrets besides the Fallen that the Unforgiven may have developed in the time since the heresy.

 

Such as? ;)

 

A way for the enemies of mankind to infiltrate a chapter of the Lion's bloodline that may be seen as more susceptible.

 

Now we are getting somewhere... counter-counter insurgency! That could be an interesting (if heretical) line of thinking! ;)

 

I never said these things were desireable, only that they made a chapter interesting. Do you mean to tell me that only chapters with good relationships with each are worth our time?

 

As for other secrets, the Deathwatch RPG mentioned that a number of actions the Unforgiven have taken since the heresy are considered less than pure. These have included the sacking of administratum locations that may have contained a hint of their connection to the Fallen, the process of reconsecrating armor that has been taken from captured Fallen, or even the truth about what really happened between the Lion and Russ when they dueled one another.

 

I didn't really mean that the chapter had the upper hand. Instead I meant that xenos or chaos who have knowledge of the Unforgiven could use the chapter as a means to strike at them. Not that the chapter was purposefully leaving themselves open.

[Shiro the Betrayed]

like that one Black Templars fleet that just 'dissapeared' while hanging out with a DA fleet. Wierd how that happened....

 

 

Also I think it would be very improbable for a successor to not be after the Fallen, they may not be obsesively hunting them, but if news of a Fallen pops up, they will drop everything to go after him.

[puck]

The thing about making a DA-successor that doesn't know of the Fallen is that there is nothing about them then that makes them be like DA. They wouldn't have a Deathwing, a Ravenwing, Interrogator Chaplains, or an Inner Circle. They'd be vanilla marines with DA geneseed. Pointless, in my opinion.

 

 

Would that be so bad? It effectively permits one to make a custom chapeter, but retain the use of DA geneseed and still have it be plausible.

 

Does DA successor have to be like DA? No. Take a look at Black Templars...do they resemble the original legion of Dorn? Not much.

 

This gives me something to work with. Possibly re-writing my old DIY chapter to have it's origins be DA.

 

Possibly the training cadre getting attacked and the inner circle members dying. Or most of the training cadre dying. There could be any number of reasons why anew chapter would not know or why it would diverge so much from the pregonitor.

 

If all you want is to say your chapter has DA geneseed, I'm guessing you want it because its said to be very pure. In that case if you care nothing for the Fallen storyline or the "hidden legion" theme of the Dark Angels then just say your chapter uses UM geneseed. Just as pure with none of the secrets you apparently don't like.

[Grimdarkness]

I have a DIY chapter that dose not cut and run when rumours of the fallen are learnt of. There still based on the DA lines but each company has a dedicated hunter cadre that follows up on rumours of the fallen. So the chapter is seen in a little better light then the unforgiven.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

Just because they don't know about the Fallen doesn't mean that they don't have similar organisations in place or don't adhere to the structure of the DA though. They wouldn't need the Inner Circle aspect but the rest could be explained away quite easily and would serve to protect the secrecy of the chapter further by showing that the Death Wing, Raven Wing, etc are common aspects of all DA successors.

 

And why would they have a Ravenwing? What would be the purpose? The Ravenwing is partly defined by its unique purpose. The same is even more true of the Deathwing. If you mean to say that the Unforgiven could purposely let a successor chapter not know about their secret but still make them use their organisation (by sending a cadre of trusted, but not IC marines, for example), that could happen, but would they really do that just to have the one "good apple" to show everyone else?

 

 

The thing about making a DA-successor that doesn't know of the Fallen is that there is nothing about them then that makes them be like DA. They wouldn't have a Deathwing, a Ravenwing, Interrogator Chaplains, or an Inner Circle. They'd be vanilla marines with DA geneseed. Pointless, in my opinion.

 

 

Would that be so bad? It effectively permits one to make a custom chapeter, but retain the use of DA geneseed and still have it be plausible.

 

Does DA successor have to be like DA? No. Take a look at Black Templars...do they resemble the original legion of Dorn? Not much.

 

This gives me something to work with. Possibly re-writing my old DIY chapter to have it's origins be DA.

 

Possibly the training cadre getting attacked and the inner circle members dying. Or most of the training cadre dying. There could be any number of reasons why anew chapter would not know or why it would diverge so much from the pregonitor.

 

If you simply want your chapter to have DA geneseed, but none of the DA "culture", that could easily happen due to not every newly created chapter necessarily being cadred by marines from their own geneseed.