torgaddon666 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Has anyone noticed the point cost for Mephiston and Dante? Dante really not 225. Mr. M sure he beats you to death with his hands at 275? Really? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 LR+EC? I can play Deathstars too! :ermm: Meet a Paladin Squad! :huh: More reasonable, the LR Will be blocked by a Razorback, popped by a MG Warrior (or a Vindicare), then the EC shot to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 We can do this all day, it seems that Space Fenrisian is convinced that the EC beats all strategies in the game, and by his coolness makes Cotaez and the GK henchmen army weak... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Has anyone noticed the point cost for Mephiston and Dante? Dante really not 225. Mr. M sure he beats you to death with his hands at 275? Really? Well, Dante comes with Artificer Armor, an M-C Power Weapon, a jump pack, an inferno pistol, and a Death Mask, which would put him at 180. 45 points for going up to I6 and A4, his unblockable ability to seriously weaken an enemy IC before the battle even starts, and granting any squad he's attached to a Deep Strike without error and hit and run, plus unlocking Sanguinary Guard as Troops seems like a pretty nice deal to me. Also, Mephiston's 250. Can't really compare his MC-esque statline to a normal Librarian's though. To be fair, every special character included in a 5th edition codex is significantly undercosted compared to creating the equivalent with a generic HQ. :looks at tyranid specials: Well, with the way 'nid specials are set up, it's generally pretty hard to get a good point-for-point comparison between the tyranid SCs and the generic units they're based off of. Plus, the 'nid codex is usually seen as the competitively weakest of the 5th edition codices (with the possible exception of the much-reviled Sisters dwarfdex). Still, in hindsight I should've said 'almost every SC' in that post, since it's not a 100% universal rule, that SCs are cheaper than equivalent generics, just the common trend. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
torgaddon666 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 let us not forget that 'nids, orks and imperial squishies out number us at least 2:1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 We can do this all day, it seems that Space Fenrisian is convinced that the EC beats all strategies in the game, and by his coolness makes Cotaez and the GK henchmen army weak... Sorry that i bring my own experiences to my posts. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 So you own experience is that no matter what the ec wins all fights, and due to that obviously Cotaez is bad? Have you even played against a good henchmen list run by a good player? Sure the EC beats Cotaez in hth. But that is not even relevant to why Cotaez is good. He is good because of his other abilities and what he unlocks in the army and because he is cheap. So let's just use my army as an example. You get the charge against Cotaez and his 5 death cultists with the ec and I believe on another thread you said 10 initiates and 4 neophytes was you squad. Cotaez casts sanctuary, perhaps you fail the charge, but assuming you do not. 2-3 guys die on the way in to dangerous terrain. Cotaez also casts hammer hand, then the DCA kill another 7ish marines in your squad(8-9 dead so far). The ec kills Cotaez. And you finish off my squad, but we are looking at 175 points of my army against twice that much. Now my second DCA squad jumps your squad and kills the rest. All of which assumes you get the charge and both squads are intact. Which never will happen. Cotaez is usually near the back of my army working as a counter assault unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3034788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Ok guys, enough with all of this "he beats this for whatever reasons" and all of this chatter about necrons...try and stay on topic, on why coteaz is a beast for our codex and how to take advantage of his abilities Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3035300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I have fought against the EC a few times now. First time he took out my GM with ease, the next two times he fell over to my purg squads. He isn't all that in CC either, my halberd Paladins removed him before me had time to blink. And, back on topic. I just bought Coteaz (I have been playing a substitute), and just getting another 2 DCAs and 6 pyskers. I do love that large blast template :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3035430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
torgaddon666 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I do love that large blast template Amen to that brother. Amen to that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3035540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Me? I just can't get over that coat 'e 'as. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3035683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
torgaddon666 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The only GK I haven't killed yet is Draigo, and thats without my HQ dying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3035757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Really you've killed valaria (sp?) now that's an accomplishment as I have never see her played :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3035867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Cheese doesn't exist unless you have the intellect of a twelve year old. Anything can be beaten if you do it right Quoted for truth! I've been getting slaggings all night for my Purifier army, I toned it down and yet it was still being hailed as ''cheese''. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3036561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Right now you could probably bring a horrible gk list and some people would still whine about cheese. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3036571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Ain't that the truth... Although, there have been some utterly broken armies in the past. The Flying Circus had to top the list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3036602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
torgaddon666 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Of the new 'dex. They weren't easy what was simple HQ fail slugfest turned into battle royal. Previous edition fleet armies were broke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 breng, the point is that if you DO bring an absolutely horribly GK list, you still have a good chance of winning. That is why people cry 'cheese'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 That is not true at all Cotaez Crowe 6x 11 mystics +1 servitor in rhino w /psybolts 3 x 5 man purgation squads w/ 4 psilencers and psybolts in rhino w /psybolts 1 paladin w banner and apoth. I'm pretty sure that list does not have a good chance to win many games. No ranged anti-tank (cannot penetrate anything but AV 10.) 3 Regular power weapons in the army. 6 Squads which may or may not do what you want during the game. A paladin with no gun and no force weapon. No shots above S5 24 total S 5 shots, 66 las pistols, 12 Psilencers (so 48 S 4 shots). No good CC units, no shots beyond 24"... Pretty sure unless your oppoents list is equally horrible this list is not winning. (it is not the worst list in 40k but it is bad.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 No shots above S5 24 total S 5 shots, 66 las pistols, 12 Psilencers (so 48 S 4 shots). No good CC units, no shots beyond 24"... Pretty sure unless your oppoents list is equally horrible this list is not winning. (it is not the worst list in 40k but it is bad.) Why? My SoB win like that all the time ;) :) I'm just kidding! We don't have any S5 shooting ..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 NO you have melta guns :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Reminds me of the 'bring the worst army' list. Where GK (Coteaz and as many CC Servotirs as you can!) came second behind a CSM list with lots of summoned Daemons and no Icons! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yup there is no worse list that that CSM list(at any points above maybe 400 points, where the 2 troops and HQ make up most of the CSM list) simply because you cannot field a majority of the army, Basically you end up playing 250ish points against what ever point value the list of your opponent is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3037263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Stacius Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ok, having delved into grey knights now, and playing against a coteaz list on a regular basis I can tell you why he is cheesey: My opponent takes 2 units of 5 dca, 6 crusaders and a tech with rads and psychotrokes in a raven. Twice. Then coteaz in a chimera with 3 multi servitors and some extra bits to take the squad to 12. Used to run with two jokaeros and 6 psykers for a juicy large blast. All topped off with a vindicare! Used right this list is proving ultra dominant. He has started slapping a banisher with eviscerator in his units after being dread stomped. Lol you can beat him, but it's cheap and wonderful as lists go meaning extra crackers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3038897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'm still laughing at the Black Templar player who thinks his EC ever reaches combat. Srsly. In this day and age. Again melta-heavy Coteaz lists, you wanna bring a Landraider (a Rhino will die Turn 1). ;) :lol: :lol: :lol: Also, Coteaz isn't there to swing his hammer, he's there to be a magical wizard of space and time, preventing anyone from every going first against you. And to field an army comprised entirely of monkeys against other races. 'I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of 60 orang-utans firing lascannons into you'. Ok, having delved into grey knights now, and playing against a coteaz list on a regular basis I can tell you why he is cheesey:My opponent takes 2 units of 5 dca, 6 crusaders and a tech with rads and psychotrokes in a raven. Twice. Then coteaz in a chimera with 3 multi servitors and some extra bits to take the squad to 12. Used to run with two jokaeros and 6 psykers for a juicy large blast. All topped off with a vindicare! Used right this list is proving ultra dominant. He has started slapping a banisher with eviscerator in his units after being dread stomped. Lol you can beat him, but it's cheap and wonderful as lists go meaning extra crackers! Gee, I wonder how you ever beat that army? Shoot the Ravens Blow up the Chimera Focus fire the Vindicare, he has two wounds and T4 :lol: Banishers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250192-what-makes-coteaz-so-bad/page/2/#findComment-3039784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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