DHeese Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Just rekitting my GK's and I was wondering, whats the viability of having Nemesis Warding Staves in them? Worth it for the otherwise Marine killing power weapon attacks that will 5 out of 6 times be saved, or no good b/c of the insane points cost? Opinions... -Dan H Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 A Stave in a unit of terminators is sometimes an OK investment. Kinda depends on what you want the unit to do. I'd consider taking a stave when buying a big unit of 10 basic guys, or for kicks to help wound allocations on Paladin units. But more often than not, you're better off making your defense better by iimproving your offense. Which means: normally you should take halberds instead. Going at I6 means you'll go before almost everything else, and it's better to kill first rather than hope to save killing blows from guys you could have killed before they could even attack. Halberds are free on terminators. (And so are hammers.) Seems like an obvious choice to me: halberds (and hammers) >> staves. A Stave in any power-armoured unit is a waste because of the insane points cost. If you're going to waste points on weapons upgrades in Strike Squads or Interceptors, the occasional halberd is a better investment for all the aforementioned reasons. (Though I think taking a single hammer per 5 guys usually make for enough weapons upgrades on these units.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3032950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Just rekitting my GK's and I was wondering, whats the viability of having Nemesis Warding Staves in them? on a scale of 0-9.its 0. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3033478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHeese Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Thanks to everyone who commented, i decided to remove them completely lol! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3033935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 If I were going to use it I would put it in a purifier squad. As they can often win combat through resolution if one man lives. Also remember that it can be used to save perils. Now I never run it, but if I did that is where I would go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3034018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 i only take it on my Librarian. and i dont believe they work on Perils, as it specifically says against close combat attacks only. (no saves vs lascannons or meltas) but i have had that libby win the day because he lived thru 9 power klaw attacks. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3034611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Mako Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 So glad I just read this. I had a stave on one of my power armored dudes that came off and I'm not putting it back on now. I think I'll go for another sword or halberd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3034616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 The gk FAQ clarifies that the warding staff works vs all wounds that occur during cc not just cc attacks. So perils from powers like hammer hand or cleansing flame would be using the staff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3034625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3mpl@r Crusade Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 The gk FAQ clarifies that the warding staff works vs all wounds that occur during cc not just cc attacks. So perils from powers like hammer hand or cleansing flame would be using the staff. yep. almost like he flicks on a switch for cc which becomes his invul for everything, except for things such as a bad template scatter into cc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3035986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Edited Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I disagree with the almost mandatory on Librarians Idea, it is a huge chunk of points on an already expensive character. You are looking at probably a 200+ point Librarian at that point, while it is nice to avoid the perils. As for a tech marine, again it is a fairly expensive upgrade making him what 130ish points for a 1 wound character. It is really not that hard to keep him away from power weapons, and in most cases he is likely in a squad that more often than not will wipe the opponent out prior to them swinging back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 With the same stats and war gear he can still be singled out No, he can't... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Edited Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Edited Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'm not saying the staff On a Libby is horrible, however the points for it are often used better elsewhere. It just depends on the role you choose for your Libby. I run mine at 170 points and he does most of his work outside of close combat. As for the tech marine if your henchmen are fighting at cc dread they are toast anyway more often than not. The dread will just swing on the squad, probably win combat at which point the tech marine is kind of a moot point. Can he help against a dread, sure but that is quite a pricey power fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If your 5 man purifier squad with 5x halberds is shot at by Terminators with assault cannons and must save against 6 wounds, of which 2 are rending, you can place the two rending ones on the knight of flame. No, you can't... are identicle in gaming terms. By this we mean they have the same profile of characteristics, the same special rules and the same weapons and wargear all models in the unit that are identicle in gaming terms take thier saving throws at the same time If the Knight of the Flame has a NFH, and therefore the same stats and wargear as the other Purifiers, how does he differ in gaming terms? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 why would you not be able to, he is a separate designation with a separate statline, he is singled out for Perils etc, so him being different matters in game terms (If he is alive he eats perils, it he is not, goes on random guy.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 No, he's identicle to the rest of the unit. What singles him out (for Perils) is the Special Rule "Brotherhood of Psychers", which the entire unit has. The unit has a whole has the same wargear, rules and stats. Those 5 Purifiers are *idenitcle* for gaming purposes. The Keeper *cannot* be singled out. Now if you gave him a Hammer, or Stave, instead of a NFH, it would be a different story. Edit: In the army list he has his own entry, as he has specific upgrades 'normal' purifiers can't purchase (MCing / Digital Weapons), and he wouldn't be able to take one of the 'special' Ranged weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I always treat him as separate because due to brotherhood of psykers it is disadvantageous to me if he dies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 How is it? Another, exactly identicle, Purifier is then used. It's exactly the same game wise. You don't have a mini with a lower Ld to then test on. It maters not who takes the test, as the other members are exactly the same. The keeper (in this instance) is absolutley no different to any other Purifier in the Squad, and isn't treated any differently. You can't use him as a seperate save group to put wounds onto. For him to be his own group, you would need to show hes got any of; 1: Different Stats to the rest of the unit 2: Different Wargear to the rest of the unit 3: Different special rules to the rest of the unit And in this case, he doesn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Except my squad is not all identical so if he dies the perils can go on a hammer or psycannon. Also debatably because of how bop works he is different in his interaction wih special rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 True, but that's not enough to let you stack wounding hits on him. Unfortunetely. The interaction of the Brotherhood of Psykers rule isn't taken into account for the wound group stipulations. Only if a model *has* a special rule or not, not how that rule works for the Squad. If you want to stack wounds on the Keeper, or try to keep him from taking wounds, you need to make him 'unique' from the rest of the Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Actually keeping him the same is the best way to keep him from taking wounds in your interpretation. I really fine either way because in a 5 man squad thermostat of the time I am just trying to keep psycannons Alive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 It can be useful if you dowant to try to keep him alive. If, for instance your 5 man squad gets hit by 6 plasma wound and 2 Bolter wounds, you could stick 1 Bolter on the Keeper, and 6 Plasma's on the rest of the Squad. Maybe you've given him a NDH and want/need the Hammer to live. Who knows. Point is, unless he has different wargear to the rest of the unit, you can't single him out for Wound Allocation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 If you're hit by 6 plasmas on your squad of 5 guys, you still have to put a plasma shot onto him...along with the bolter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250215-viability-of-nem-warding-staves-in-strikepurifier-squads/#findComment-3036761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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