soots Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/STORM_EAGLE.html just checked out forge world and noticed this model (sorry if this might have been mentioned before) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 It's not a Stormraven, and the GK can't use it. Win. I'm actually bored now of FW releasing new marine stuff but denying it to the Grey Knights. Enough already... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3033959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Why are you bored about that? It's probably there to give the other codices a flyer. Everyone seemed to cry foul when they didn't even get rules for the storm-raven in a WD issue for their PA codices. I think this is fine personally, and most definitely not an alternative model for a Storm-Raven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3033988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/STORM_EAGLE.htmljust checked out forge world and noticed this model (sorry if this might have been mentioned before) It does look better, but it is resin, and costs twice as much as the plastic Raven. I'm much more likely to buy a Raven and use it as a counts-as Eagle for my Space Wolves army, than do it the other way around for my Grey Knights. It does look good though, so well done Forgeworld. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Why are you bored about that? It's probably there to give the other codices a flyer. Everyone seemed to cry foul when they didn't even get rules for the storm-raven in a WD issue for their PA codices. I think this is fine personally, and most definitely not an alternative model for a Storm-Raven. Hey, I feel bad for the fact that GW decided to roll out the SR with only new Marine Codexes. But that's thier bad. FW have released successive new items, and have denied them to the GK. Storm Eagle. Contemptor (Edit and the Assault Ram). Take a look at the old Marine IA book (you can get the update for free) and notice how much stuff we're *not* allowed to take. Why? We're a MArine chapter, just like the others. It's boring and tiresome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 But you're not supposed to be! Grey Knights are not supposed to be "another Marine chapter, just like the others". You're meant to be a scalpel for destroying daemons and witches, and let the galaxy burn. You're meant to be a single squad of Terminators teleporting onto the battlefield to eliminate a specific threat. Much maligned as it is, Draigowing is actually the closest to the GK's original concept that still remains in the game. I still remember when "A unit of Grey Knight Terminators" was THE option for fielding them, and that it came as an option in any "Army of the Imperium". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Much maligned as it is, Draigowing is actually the closest to the GK's original concept that still remains in the game. I still remember when "A unit of Grey Knight Terminators" was THE option for fielding them, and that it came as an option in any "Army of the Imperium". You better recheck that. The original Grey Knights had a full and complete army list in Slaves to Darkness. The unit of Grey Knight Terminators that you describe was added much later, after the invention of the TDA concept, and was an add-on unit option to the original Slaves to Darkness list. EDIT: Grey Knights History Lesson found here. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 But you're not supposed to be! Matt Ward sais Hai! :P We were chapter 666, and we're now a fully fledged Space Marine Chapter in our own right. FW seemingly restrict *everything* from us (and somewhat the Bangles becuase we're the newest codex on the block. Which is just lame. Hopefully thier next project is an awesome mega flying crushing DreadKnight. That Transforms! And *no one* else in the game can use it! Way to sell a product!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Crying for an eagle is like crying for Marneus Calgar or a rail guns. The armies need Differing options to be distinct and have their 'place' in the board game :P If you really, really want one. Then just house rule it, and have your fun the way you want it :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 So how is a Storm Eagle different to a Storm Raven? Expect better. With more Troop Capactity and more Weapons... And why should GKs be denied Castus Assult Rams, or Contemptors? Edit: The Storm Eagle is nothing but company one upmanship. FW: Oh HAI Marines! GW :P ed you and didn't give your the new Raven in a WD? Well, here's a better one!!! And you Bangles and GKs can't have it, as you already got yours! Nah Nah na Nah Nah! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 As a side note, the Eagle can't carry a dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 And we don't have any CC dreads we'd want to carry in a 'Raven anyway. :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Yeah, it can't carry a dread. The Grey Knights codex has it's own unique stuff, and can be a monster if played right. Go ahead and let the other PA codices have their fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 So the other Codexes, including Space Wolves and Black Templars don't have thier own unique stuff? In that case, I'll field some Thunderwolves in my GK army please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Thunderwolves aren't that great to be honest, they also are not flying transport vehicles able to carry dreadnoughts. They are 2 wound cavalry, all it takes is a single Purgation or Purifier Squad with Psycannons, or heck even Psilencers to take them down in a trun or two. On the reverse side, if you care to use the SW's as an example, their staple Rune Priests cannot directly target the SR, and melta weapons from grey hunters or landspeeders no longer get their extra D6 for armor pen, so they only have a 16.66-% chance of glancing, and a 33.33-% chance of pen, if they hit. They wont be able to use the Storm Eagle in normal games, whereas the Storm Raven for Blood Angels and Grey Knights can. So don't worry about it, it's not upsetting the game. If you do ever come across one in apocalypse, you could take one too, just aboout anything goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Personally I'm enjoying seeing you lot feel the rage for a change. You get enough super special shiny snowflake toys as it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 For a change? Isn't the point I'm trying to make. No Castus. No Contemptor. No StormEagle. Want me to go on? When was the last GK specific FW release? Actually, when was the last FW release the GK could *use*? And the Thunderwolves are *brilliant*. A 50 point, durable, cavalry unit that can easily hide behind a Rhino then go Thunderhammer something. I'll trade you the Culuxes and Eversor Assassins for one. Deal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Forge World gave us a Land Raider Redeemer when other non-Codex Marines didn't have one. They gave us the ability to put a psycannon on our regular Land Raiders as well as on Razorbacks. We can put psycannons on a Thunderhawk for cryin' out loud... like that isn't broken and totally awesome :) Land Raider Prometheus for Inquisitors, Valkyries for Inquisitors. We've got definite Forge World love before. As far as Grey Knights not having one.. I'll just quote myself from another thread: The rules make sense to me actually, as well as the Chapter difference. As far as fluff goes, I'll address the Grey Knights one. The Storm Raven allows the Grey Knights several important things that the Storm Eagle doesn't, namely the ability to transport a Dreadnought and 'deep strike' it into enemy territory, and the ability to act like a Teleport Homer. The Grey Knights don't use Drop Pods, they teleport, and otherwise there's no way to get a Dread into enemy territory along with the rest of your army without the Storm Raven. In addition the ability of the Raven to act as a Teleport Homer is key for a deep striking army. A psycannon (psybolt ammo assault cannon), and typhoon launcher or multi-melta provide plenty of anti-armor capability on a fast vehicle, especially paired with PotMS. I'd actually rather have the twin-linked psycannon and the ability to move over two twin-linked lascannons. I would assume it's a similar issue for Blood Angels (though I don't play them so I don't know exactly). as well as Sorry Pyykkonen, not buying it. From a fiscal point of view it's understandable why GW took up this direction as others, like Jeske previously mentioned*. But from a fluff point of view, acting as though having one leads to the mutual exclusion of the other is very illogical and limits both the BAs and the GKs strategies. While Grey Knights have a 'preference' for deep striking, they are also a very practically minded chapter and would more realistically house both variants to suit a variety of different situations. The Storm Raven is suitable for transporting dreadnoughts and teleportation-assistance but in a chapter that makes wider use of TDA than any other, the Storm Eagle could also find it's place where viable transportation is needed for larger aerial insertions. The same could also be said the Blood Angels, with their wider dedication to Jump Packs and aerial assaults in general. * Saying that, even then the financial argument doesn't hold much water considering FW basically just released an alternative TDA range too. They already have viable transportation for larger aerial insertions... they're called Thunderhawks :P Going from a Storm Raven to a Storm Eagle is a lateral move, as opposed to a larger capacity move. The Grey Knights already have a large and small transport, now the other Chapters also have a large and small transport. If we take your argument to logical conclusion, then every Chapter would have the exact same equipment because they always have a situation where the equipment used by everyone else could be useful. I can even argue it would be more useful tactically to transport 10 Terminators in 2 Storm Ravens, rather than 1 Storm Eagle (when both vehicles are just as durable and resistant to damage as the other). More firepower, more redundancy in case of loss or damage, etc. The Grey Knights had a situation where they already had larger scale aerial insertion vehicles, Thunderhawks, and they needed something for smaller scale as well. Enter the Storm Raven. From a logistics standpoint it's easier to simply carry one style of vehicle rather than two, as parts, ammunition, etc don't always carry over from one to the other. The Storm Raven fits more of their needs than the Storm Eagle does from a tactical standpoint, particularly when paired with teleportation. While a teleport homer is useful for other Chapters, it is nowhere near as universally awesome as it is for the Grey Knights. Other Chapters don't have the same set of needs as the Grey Knights do because their equipment isn't as specialized. Remember the Grey Knights are not built for nor practice the same style of large scale warfare that regular Marine Chapters do, they practice the secret war. Get in, complete your objective, get out. Let the Guard and the other Chapters take over planets, your job is to deal with the daemons and situations too hot for everyone else but smaller than planetwide Exterminatus. It's a much more personal level battle, and hordes of flying anti-armor isn't really the answer. Hordes of flying anti-armor is great for a regular, standard Chapter though. If I had to pick just one to suit my forces I'd take the Storm Raven every time. I simply have no reason to transport ten Terminators in a flyer that I couldn't accomplish by simply upgunning to a Thunderhawk (because really 10 Terminators is a serious investment of forces if you think about it, and wouldn't you rather field 3 units of 5 potentially than one unit of 10? Especially since you couldn't combat squad within a Storm Eagle they'd have to be a single unit?). Small scale I honestly feel a Storm Raven, with it's current weapons options and teleport homer, fits my needs far better than a Storm Eagle ever would. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Ooh, big deal, you didn't get the brick, the super-dread or the mini-hawk. Do you know when the last time Forge World released something for my army was? The Exorcist. Edit: Nicole, double-check your post. It's doubled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 You talking aobut Sisters? Sorry, GW failed you guys *really* badly. I'd not wish a WD mini dex on anyone. Who nows, by the time you get a proper Codex, FW might start doing stuff for you agian. But from the looks of the GK, they won't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firemission Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Draigowing spilt into combat squads one squad in SR the other teleports in, with Dread plus one special termie x3 and throw in a DK we are talking 30 termies 3 dreads 3 SR's 1 DK plus Extermination Strike Force for Apoc whats wrong now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 their staple Rune Priests cannot directly target the SR. What do you mean by this? V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 This is just FW stuff, so it's not like the rules are official anyway. Just get what you want. If you and your opponent have agreed to use FW units you have already agreed to use non-standard rules. Make up your own and have fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 This is just FW stuff, so it's not like the rules are official anyway. Just get what you want. If you and your opponent have agreed to use FW units you have already agreed to use non-standard rules. Make up your own and have fun. My point exactly, if neither of you is playing with the standard rulebook, most people are usually pretty relaxed about what you can or cannot take. This is definitely something I would let a GK opponent use in an apoc game, not a hierophant or whatever that tyranid bio-titan is for example. their staple Rune Priests cannot directly target the SR. What do you mean by this? V Sorry, I miswrote/misquoted on that one. They get a -1 penalty to their Ld for directly targeting a model with the Aegis rule. Not really a big deal, but I tend to role horribly for passing perils of the warp, so a -1 might as well seal-the-deal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Grey Knights get Marines that can teleport around the table at will, master-crafted underwear, bucketfuls of invuln saves, dirt cheap psyker silliness, Terminator armor for their Terminator armor, and a fast flyer for their codex they don't have to make FW excuses for. What exactly is the problem again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250292-newalternative-stormraven-model/#findComment-3034672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.