Fluff Space

[Dammeron]

One of the more lamentable preconceptions that seems to have taken root in the collective consciousness of late -arguably due to a number of factors such as the Index Astartes articles and the manner in which C:CSM 3.5 presented the established legions- is a kind of narrative literalism, in which the very word of the background as presented in codicies and army books is gospel and universally applicable, whereas the deliberate flexibility and "spaces between the lines" the writers invest their work with is largely ignored.

 

40K and Warhammer FB have always been worlds that cater to adaptation and personal interpretation; within the parameters of each army's background, and the sub-cultures they consist of, is a fathomless wilderness of possibility; interpretations and differentiations in emphasis that allow players to tailor their own armies to their heart's content.

 

This seems to have been something that has become somewhat lost on a certain vocal sub-set of Chaos players of late, despite the fact that the background of Chaos in all of its multifarious forms is the most flexible and wide open to individual interpretation.

 

Since they are most pertinent in this regard, let's take the establisheed Chaos legions. Each legion represents a particular archetype and philosophical extreme that demonstrates how Chaos may be interpreted, and how individuals may fall into its embrace. Whether it's the nihilistic sadism of the Night Lords or the unwavering dogmatism of the Word Bearers, the Traitor Legions present a spectrum of possibility and motivation wide enough to spark the enthusiasm of most disciples of the Ruinous Powers.

 

However, within the scope of each individual legion's background is a vast sub-spectrum of possibilities. Owing to the nature of fiction and narrative, there will be as many individual interpretations of the Traitor Legions as there are minds that engage with them. No two will ever be entirely alike, even within the defined parameters of their respective backgrounds, and it is this that lends Chaos its true richness. Players have the scope and possibility to create extremely elaborate and imaginative backgrounds for their own forces, from which distinct aesthetics; modelling and painting styles, iconography and weaponry, arise.

 

Let's take the Word Bearers as an example. Within their background, the Word Bearers are described as one of the more coherent and organised Traitor Legions, operating from two core bases within the 40K universe: the daemon world of Sicarus, and the conquered factory-world of Ghalmek. The Word Bearers are described as operating within Grand Hosts, whose organisation, tactics, iconography and specific beliefs are idiosyncratic, based upon the visions and preconceptions of their Dark Apostles. Within the faith proscribed by their primarch Lorgar, there is a wide variety of potential interpretation, meaning that it's entirely possible for one Host to operate differently from another. It's not too much of a stretch of imagination to intuit that Sicarus has seen its own fair share of religious wars as schisms have developed between the majority of the Word Bearers and smaller hosts or sub-cults that have since either been forcibly reintegrated into the legion or have broken away to form their own warbands. It's also not outside the realms of possibility that such schisms are encouraged by the higher ranking members of the legion as a means of not only feeding the Chaos Gods they venerate, but also determining through the purity of conflict which "truth" is the most fervent and favoured by the Gods.

 

 

The Black Library provides differing interpretations of how the legion and its members operate dependent on the preconceptions and interpretations of each author. The same is also true for those stories involving other legions: nothing here is gospel or canon; they are merely interpretations of how the legions function, and there is space within the baxkground for all of them to exist simultaneously.

 

My own interpretation of the Word Bearers background, for example, chimes most profoundly with the way ADB has thus far presented them, rather than Anthony Reynolds or the other writers that have made the attempt. That is not to say that these other authors are in some way "wrong" in their presentation of the Word Bearers; it is simply that their reading of the material doesn't chime with mine. There is sufficient space and scope within the 40K universe for all of them to exist.

 

The Night Lords are another excellent example of how the ethos of a particular legion can be variously interpreted; some members of the legion clearly hold to some twisted notion of purity and philosophical vindication, whereas others have abandoned all such pretensions and wallow in their own carnal natures, operating as little more than super-powered sadists and psychic vampires in a universe where they are free to indulge whatever twisted desires or appetites they can contrive.

 

Personally, I'm sincerely hoping that the up and coming codex will reflect this to a meaningful degree. whether it will or not, I suppose only time wiill tell.

[Kol Saresk]

Where is that bloody like button when you need it?

[Marshal Rohr]

I agree with what you say, but sadly I just dont like that it is true :P

 

 

I want to play an organized army of raiders who have some form of discipline and are an actual threat. An army that can go toe to toe with an Imperial Battlegroup and come out on top. Sadly, that just doesn't exist in 40K.

[Kol Saresk]

Au contraire, the Red Corsairs have many successful hits to their names as do many other warbands. If Chaos never won then it wouldn't be a threat to the Imperium. Besides, we won our fair share of fights in an out of the Black Crusades.

[Dammeron]

I agree with what you say, but sadly I just dont like that it is true ^_^

 

 

I want to play an organized army of raiders who have some form of discipline and are an actual threat. An army that can go toe to toe with an Imperial Battlegroup and come out on top. Sadly, that just doesn't exist in 40K.

 

The Alpha Legion seem to generally fit that bill rather well.

[Marshal Rohr]

But they are an insurgency force. While cool, I prefer my space marines in epic battles supported by massive fleets and billions of mortal followers.

[Kol Saresk]

Black Crusades, Badab War, the Fall of Vilamus, Battle of Crythe, Fall of Ghorstangrad, and oh so many others.

[Yogi]

But they are an insurgency force. While cool, I prefer my space marines in epic battles supported by massive fleets and billions of mortal followers.

 

 

Black Legion force. Don't need to neccesarily have abaddon.

[Trevak Dal]

Since I've started Chaos Space Marines, I've found it a lot easier to write background than say, for my Tau, which all I ever got was "No, that's not possible." and really killed it for me. There is also an excessive amount of books and fluff for Chaos.

 

I don't really like the Primarchs-as much like their Dad, they really aren't involved with the plot anymore except anecdotally, and I outright hate some of them (though Corax, and Alpharius/Omegon I do like). I've almost had the opposite problem for developing an army theme that I had for my Tau: I have so much to choose from, and so much I can develop from that I don't know where to start.

[A D-B]

I agree with what you say, but sadly I just dont like that it is true ;)

 

 

I want to play an organized army of raiders who have some form of discipline and are an actual threat. An army that can go toe to toe with an Imperial Battlegroup and come out on top. Sadly, that just doesn't exist in 40K.

 

I dunno, dude. Even outside of Black Crusades, I'm sure there are plenty of incursions like that. Warbands can be any size, after all; they're not all short-lived, either. A group that size seems just as likely to me, plaguing a subsector for generations, as a small group of rugged survivors on the fringes.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I agree with what you say, but sadly I just dont like that it is true :P

 

 

I want to play an organized army of raiders who have some form of discipline and are an actual threat. An army that can go toe to toe with an Imperial Battlegroup and come out on top. Sadly, that just doesn't exist in 40K.

 

The Blood Gorgons come pretty close to that, when they're not infighting amongst themselves. There's precedent enough for your concept to apply.

[Marshal Rohr]

I doubt there is a precedent for 10,000 legionaires from one legion holding a conquered sub-sector :P

[Kol Saresk]

The Night Lords had whatever subsector Tsalgualsa was in.

[Yogi]

I doubt there is a precedent for 10,000 legionaires from one legion holding a conquered sub-sector :P

 

Its called the Eye of terror.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I doubt there is a precedent for 10,000 legionaires from one legion holding a conquered sub-sector :P

 

The Maelstrom comes to mind. Even with the Word Bearers present the bulk of the defense falls on the Corsairs, who were just a Chapter at one point and dominated an entire system. It's not amiss to believe that a warband of 10,000 Traitor Marines could put up enough resistance to conquer the bulk of a subsector and hold it long enough for the Imperium to grow tired of trying to take it back and writing it off as "to be continued".

[Kol Saresk]

There are also the Violators, the Storm Barons(or was it Thunder Barons? They were mentioned in Daemon World) as well as the Skulltakers and a few others that all dwell in the Maelstrom. And then there are the Warp Ghosts, the Sons of Malice(Did they ever get there homeworld back?), the Sons of Vengeance, the Silver Guard and more than a few others. And isn't there the Planet of Steel or whatever that is controlled by the Iron Warriors?

[A D-B]

I doubt there is a precedent for 10,000 legionaires from one legion holding a conquered sub-sector :P

 

Just a guess, but I'd reckon over the course of 10,000 years and countless worlds, that would've happened a few dozen times at the very least.

[Marshal Rohr]

You don't think claiming 10,000 legionaries is a little ambitious for DIY background?

[Kol Saresk]

As long as they are all from different Legions mixed in with some Renegades, Dark Mechanicus and Traitor Guardsmen, I don't have a problem with it as long as the fluff is good. If Graham McNeill can do it, well anyone as good as he can can do it too! :D

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

You don't think claiming 10,000 legionaries is a little ambitious for DIY background?

... DIY background?

[ThisisJimmy]

For the most part I do agree. The universe of 40k is simply too large to be confined by what is recorded. I think if we do limit ourselves to what is recorded in the lore, chaos doesn't seem a threat. I mean sure we read it in the codex, that the Traitor Legions are the biggest threat to the existence of the Imperium, but (and maybe this is just me) it just doesn't feel so. As I understand it, 6th edition will place new emphasis on the threat of Chaos, and readdress it to where I think it should be. In my mind, the whole idea about humanity's former protectors becoming their direst threat is far more interesting than any other thread in the 40k universe. I'm not trying to make it seem like the other races have no point in being present, because it simply isn't true, but the whole 'even in the End Times, humanity will still fight each other' seems a more compelling plot point.

 

I guess the point I was trying to make was that if Chaos doesn't have the power to contest entire sub systems, then they aren't really much of a threat to the Imperium as a whole.

 

Oh, and about the OP's comment about the representation of Word Bearers, I loved that idea about religious wars within the Legion. I still love the piece of lore that says they are still a non-fractured Legion, as I think it makes them different from just another Undivided warband, but the idea of periodic schisms makes perfect sense, and has basis in the lore through the Brotherhood. The idea of the Dark Council conspiring at the top of one of the great temples on Sicarus is too delicious an image to ignore :)

[minigun762]

I mean sure we read it in the codex, that the Traitor Legions are the biggest threat to the existence of the Imperium, but (and maybe this is just me) it just doesn't feel so. As I understand it, 6th edition will place new emphasis on the threat of Chaos, and readdress it to where I think it should be.

 

I hope so too. At the moment I'd rank Chaos a distant 4th as far as threats to the Imperium with Necron, Tyranids and Orks all in front and the majority of the Chaos threat is more about cults, corruption and intrigue instead of direct military action.

 

I like the insidious nature of Chaos and I enjoy the cat and mouse games of the Alpha Legion or the variety of cults but you have to consider that the majority of Chaos marines were created and trained as aggressive weapons of war so they should be acting accordingly.

 

Chances are good this will fix itself in the new codex and we'll get a "fluff boost" that restores our awesomeness.

 

My personal guess is that there will be a short story detailing how an elite squad of Word Bearers, Emperor's Children and Alpha Legion managed to infiltrate Macragge and spray paint "YOU SUCK" on Guilliman's stasis chamber. :)

[Bongfu]

The traitor legions have become like Orks. They are small and powerful, but if they were to ever unite under one banner they could conquer the galaxy. Look how relatively well the Black Crusades do. Of course they get stopped by the fluff shields, but if the Legions would put aside their differences, they would be the most potent force in the galaxy outside of the Tyranids.

[Artein]

I hope so too. At the moment I'd rank Chaos a distant 4th as far as threats to the Imperium with Necron, Tyranids and Orks all in front and the majority of the Chaos threat is more about cults, corruption and intrigue instead of direct military action.

With current Necron fluff it's more like:

1st Chaos

2nd Tyranids

3rd/4th Orks/Necrons (kinda similar threat level)

 

Necrons were kinda like Tyranids, more or less united force which wanted to eat/kill every living being. Now Necrons are some small warlords and tiny empires, not united with a single goal.

CSM are a bit like 'crons and Orks but Chaos as a whole is a bit bigger thing. Striking not only from without but also from within. Renegade IG, Dark Mechanicum, Chaos Space Marines, Daemons and every single cultist and heretic....

 

Also we're not really sure how big the Tyranids are or how many Necrons are there. Maybe a lot. Maybe not.

[Aqui]

Chances are good this will fix itself in the new codex and we'll get a "fluff boost" that restores our awesomeness.

 

We've always been awesome, we just don't need propaganda to prove it :down:

 

My personal guess is that there will be a short story detailing how an elite squad of Word Bearers, Emperor's Children and Alpha Legion managed to infiltrate Macragge and spray paint "YOU SUCK" on Guilliman's stasis chamber. :)

 

I really need to stop drinking anything when reading posts. I nearly spat my coffee over my keyboard :D