Wondering how to build an effective all-infantry force.

[Deus de Mortalis]

I know, I know, this sounds stupid. But using the 4th edition marine codex I used to run a power armor horde. Running 90+ marines in under 2000 points was quite a thing. I've kind of been grumpy through all of 5th edition about not being able to pull the same kind of stuff I used to and not having my armies be exactly what I want them to be, at least not without getting massacred every game.

 

I really want to make a marine army without any vehicles. Between the three codexes I have, Chaos, Space Wolves, and Vanilla Marines, I feel like the space wolf codex can make the most effective force under these limitations. Any all infantry force would have to pull out all the stops when it comes to utilizing the different tricks they can take to increase mobility, like deep striking assault marines, teleporting librarians, infiltrators, and giving all IC's jump packs. Also I think any such force would have to be very shooty if their mobility is not that great. So bringing TH/SS termies is probably a bad idea, although shooty termies still pack a punch in CC yet do dish out ranged attacks as well. As far as CC goes, the list would just have to rely on softening up the enemy before hand, pulling a trick out of its sleeve, and just using the massive amount of bodies to resist anything. I think also using sacrificial units to leave assault forces in the open would be a good idea.

 

Vanilla Codex:

I think the weakest links here are the devastators and the tactical squads. The devastators are just not a good bargain compared to pretty much any other long ranged option in the codex, but without vehicles, it does not leave much else. Also the bread and butter, the tactical marines, are support units and can't really take the fight to the enemy. But who would they be supporting that is getting the job done, terminators, sternguard, assault marines, and scouts? Without loading up on lots and lots of troops units, I don't see an all-infantry army being viable. Even though it is AV10, I think a thunderfire cannon or two would not be out of line, but they lack the hard anti-armor punch that the list would definitely need. The librarian's gate of infinity, the MOTF's conversion beamer, and the chapter master's orbital bombardment seem good though.

 

Space Wolves Codex:

Grey hunters, the main troop choice, are actually quite good, even on foot. They can stay back and shoot or advance to the enemy both just as well. I haven't actually played using the wolf codex, but the grey hunters seem very similar to chaos space marine squads, only better. Wolf guard and scouts both make great elites choices from what I've read. I would think that one squad of wolf guard that can break off members to join other squads, and two squads of scouts almost seem required in an all-infantry list. One or two packs of skyclaws each lead by an IC would seem good for counter attacking, heading the charge against a weak enemy force, or even deepstriking somewhere to cause some mayhem. I could also see a fenrisian wolf pack there to soak up extra points or screen for the long fangs. And finally the long fangs seem like a godsend. The firepower they can dish out and their cheap points means three squads are almost a given, with three wolf guard thrown their way to catch some wounds. Anyway, I think this codex is probably the best, because the long fangs and grey hunters are just so good. And I almost forgot, there is also loganwing.

 

Chaos Codex:

It's been a while since I've played it and I don't have it on me right now, so I can't speak too much right now. Daemon princes with wings definitely pack a CC punch and can take a beating. I love the termis because they are so relatively cheap and customizable. They can be tailored for any mission whether it be termicide or as a shooty squad. Chosen marines would work well. All the troops choices except for berserkers seem like they would fit in. The regular squads would be more assault oriented and close in to the enemy, while plague marines, noise marines, and thousand sons would be more shooty but able to resist an assault. I think raptors would be used to do some tank hunting and/or counter assaulting. Also maybe supporting daemon princes making an assault. The devastator squad of the chaos marines is better than the vanilla one because it can take 4 special weapons, so that is a plus. And everyone knows that oblits are great. Lastly, greater daemons and regular daemons could be a big plus. Greater daemons for obvious reasons, and regular daemons could help hold back an assault or they could be bombed into the enemy lines by using the raptors. I think the Chaos codex definitely could make something to fight with, even though I'm not sure how well daemons would mix in with my loyalist marines.

 

Blood Angles Codex:

I don't have this one, but assault marines as troops sounds pretty good and they have some wicked HQ options.

 

Even though I think space wolves would make the best all-infantry force, I think they would be the most boring because they wouldn't have many tricks up their sleeve and there wouldn't be a whole lot of wiggle room with a list. Anyway, I know I am no 40k tactical genius but I want to make a really fun and really competitive list using only infantry. I want masses of bodies going into the fight. Anyway, please let me know what you think or if I am on the right track. Within the next few days I'll try to come up with a competitive all infantry list using each of my three codexes. And I really don't care what codex I use. I just want the army to be what I want it to be.

[MordentHex]

Speak for yourself, my Tac marines and Devastators Rock. :D Ive seen of bloodthirsters and plaguemarines with a well timed barrage of rapid-firing bolters. Also considering they are cheaper at full ten man squads than any other full unit in the codex, I find them practical and useful especially with a free heavy weapon and flamer.

[DarkGuard]

The best PA all foot armies are Blood Angels and Grey Knights. Blood Angels have tons of mobility in their troops thanks to Assault Marines, survivability and hitting power thanks to Apothecaries, and can take meltaguns in their Assault squads. Their Devs are also priced reasonably and you can give them FnP as well if you want. Jumper lists have the ability to deploy and move up quickly in FnP bubbles and behind terrain, while also being able to deep strike with accuracy and have some reserve manipulation to better coordinate their forces. Their Libby's are handy as well with Shield meaning you don't need to be in cover as long as you get the power off.

 

Grey Knights, on the other hand, have less mobility apart from deep striking (not as reliable as BA) and their teleporters. They do, however, have some fantastic shooting at 24", their storm bolters effectively being 30". S5 is also very handy, while psycannons are a great weapon stationary and on the move. Terminators as troops also helps in this infantry force with a better armour save, invulnerable save, better psycannons and cheap combat weapons while being better in combat. While you'd be unlikely to be in range Turn 1, with good run rolls you should be in range Turn 2 and dominate midfield from there. Mordrak also lends himself well to a foot army with accurate deep striking, while bringing a teleport homer Libby along lets you deep strike more Terminators right next to them.

 

The other armies can be played on foot, but they tend to not do so well on foot, especially C:SM, and perform better with mech.

 

Also, Black Templars. Decent foot army thanks to 5 man dual CML Terminators tank hunters and big 20 man squads of Marines which get closer if you shoot them. Plus the ability to field cheap 5 man las/plas squads and have army wide Ld10, they wouldn't be a bad foot force IMO.

 

Dark Angels also do all foot well thanks to Deathwing and Ravenwing, giving them something different.

 

So unfortunately, IMO the three armies whose Codices you have don't really make great foot forces, especially when compared to the other Codices.

 

With C:SM you're looking for las/plas Tactical squads, Sternguard, Assault squads and Dev squads, the latter of which aren't priced too great or just aren't great.

 

With C:SW I reckon you could do better thanks to Living Lightning Wolf Priest and ML Long Fangs. Grey Hunter units in cover with plasma guns and maybe flamers won't be bad either. Also don't forget Wolf Guard and/or Logan. Loganwing can be a pretty good foot force for C:SW.

 

I don't know enough about C:CSM.

[muadib02]

I used to play my spacewolves on foot.

 

3 Long fang packs (2 all missiles, 1x 2 plasma and 3 HB)

min 4z 10 man Grey hunter packs...either 2 melta or 2 plasma with a wolf guard

Take this and then mix and match from there.

 

They are suprisinly hard to kill, and with some thuderwolves and wolf scouts or dreadnoughts you are on your way to having a good time.

 

Note: Njal is also handy when on foot.

[Grey Mage]

Codex Space Marine makes an incredible army with almost/absolutely no vehicles....

 

All you have to do it take alot of bikes for example. An all biker or mostly biker force can be a real threat. However, I wouldnt want to run them without say... scouts in a storm and a couple landspeeders, just for the heavy weapon backup.

[greatcrusade08]

i guess my army just about qualifies as a foot army

 

Khan on bike

bike command squad

ten scout snipers

ten bolter scouts

ten close combat scouts

ten scout bikes

2 land speeder storm melta teams

2 thunderfire cannons

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

The way I see it with the current codex you have.

 

Blood Angels would probably be better army to play with if you go all foot. They have the jump packs for mobility or deep strike shenanigans. I would lean more towards Blood Angels because i play the army and know it is possible to make a effective foot army out of the three codices you have.

 

I have never had luck with vanilla marines. Most of my games ended in a tie or massacre (me on the receiving end) when i went horde of vanilla marines.

 

As Darkguard has said...

So unfortunately, IMO the three armies whose Codices you have don't really make great foot forces, especially when compared to the other Codices.

[Myxx]

If you are looking for model count, SW have 15 man blood claw packs as troops. But they are also only BS3.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

When I think of a foot army, I think of an infantry gunline. A friend and I were discussing this and we came to the conclusion that the Blood Angels are the best option. Their Devastator weapons are cheaper than C:SM, and they can put extra bodies into a Dev squad to soak up wounds, unlike Long Fangs. BA also have Sternguard, which are quite useful, and get cheaper heavy weapons than Devs do. The sticker for my buddy was Tycho, who provides Leadership 10 to the whole army to help ensure that his foot troops don't run away.

 

He's still in the planning stages, though, so we'll see how that turns out.

[DarkGuard]

My apologies Grey Mage and GC08, I completely forgot about Bikes and Scout armies. When I hear Space Marine foot army I just think about power armoured horde.

 

So for power armoured guys not on bikes, the other Codices are probably better. For bikes and Scouts I think it wouldn't be unfair to say we have the better Codex.

[Atlantic]

I think the Blood Angel book is best for this sort of thing as well, but have you considered the Black Templar codex? You can make some huge squads that move across the table at an acceptable clip.

[Hellios]

Two words....

 

 

BLACK TIDE!

[minigun762]

From the Chaos perspective, we do have some decent strengths for running ground pounders.

1) Variety of scoring units, 5 troop types not counting Icons gives you some options.

2) Potential for 20 man units, its quite difficult to shift 20 guys off an objective.

3) Easy access to Fearless, 4/5 of troop choices aren't going to run.

 

The main weaknesses of Chaos hordes are

1) Lack of special weapon/heavy weapon/close combat weapon upgrades. At most we can fit 2 specials, 1 CCW and a combi weapon in regardless of whether we have 10 or 20 marines in the squad.

2) Expensive point wise, many of our units are costly for what they give you.

3) Slow, nobody has fleet or any way to move faster. Some units actually move slower.

4) Short range, the majority of our weapons are most effective under 12".

[ShinyRhino]

You can make viable all-foot lists from the Space Marine codex, but they will take some top-notch generalship to achieve a winning record.

 

In the modern "objectives and Troops are king" 40K scene, you need some mobility to deny your opponent their objective(s). Remember that objective denial doesn't mean parking a tactical Squad on it. it means having ANY model from your force within 3" at the end of the game.

To that end, you're looking at what is essentially a Codex Battle Company build.

 

Start with a durable core of a couple 10-man Tactical Squads. Each MUST have a heavy and a special weapon. Depending on objective placement, you can park them on an objective and shoot anything that gets near, using supporting units (mentioned in a second) to assist in the kills. or, if the enemy army makeup allows it, hide them out of LOS and use the one-man-head-poke trick (leave only the heavy weapon visible) to take potshots with the heavy at long range. Why the one-man-poke? Your enemy can only shoot what he can see. If he's firing blasts at you, they must be placed over the only model he can see (the heavy gunner). With the gunner at max coherency distance from the rest of the squad, you can end up with single hits at a time from small blasts AND cover saves against those wounds.

 

Scout squads will allow you some lateral dimension to the game, either infiltrating onto far-off objectives, or arriving from an outflanking position. it takes ONE scout model to keep an objective.

 

Your foot-borne heavy guns are going to have to be Devastators or Sternguard. You'll want ablative wounds so the big guns fire as long as possible. Give them solid firelanes to cover the approaches to your objective-holding tactical squads.

 

Then come the Assault Squads. Yes, Assault Squads. Take them 10-strong, with flamers if you want them. These are expendable Marines, so you want them cheap. You hop them forward in order to threaten the far objectives in the late game. They don't have tokill a ton of stuff, they just have to survive til the end of the game, and land in contesting range of objectives. So long as one Marine survives to pull that off, you can win. Alternatively, consider deepstriking these guys in late, if terrain allows you to hide their landing.

 

Sternguard squads are versatile with their special ammo, and make great all-rounders for defense. Their limited movement limits their offensive capabilities.

Tactical Terminators make great "rolling stone" units. Give them a heavy weapon, and point them at a midfield or far objective. They're durable enough to take a ton of shots and still move forward, guns blazing.

If you allow Dreads in your all-foot force, they have a ton of options for support roles. A heavy weapon arm and a DCCW arm make them adept at plinking incoming targets, and intimidating enough in melee to tie up anything that gets through.

 

Vanguard are a little too expensive to use in this build, as the point you sink into jump packs and power weapons can buy a LOT of basic Marines in other units.

 

Your HQ selections can make or break this build.

Cato Sicarius and his old-school Rites of Battle rule is ideal. Ld10 across the board is great for units that will always be taking casualties. Plus, his Battle Forged Heroes rule is applicable because you'll always have a Tac Squad in your force.

A Librarian with Gate of Infinity can help move slower units around the board to contest or claim objectives. Risky, but usable. Force Dome or Null Zone would be a good second choice. Dome is handy when terrain placement stinks, and Null Zone is fun against those pesky Daemons and Terminators.

A jump pack Chaplain ensures your Assault Squads who are sneaking up the board will never run away.

Marneus Calgar is useful as a defensive lynchpin, and for the ability to essentially ignore Morale tests.

A command squad can be nice as a cleanup crew for your deployment zone when properly kitted. You can either pack them for shooting (quad plasma!), or give them a mixed bag to help with melee cleanup duty. The Banner is a great choice here, as the 12" bubble of Morale/Pinning rerolls is great in a gunline.

 

 

Of course, this is all Theoryhammer. There are plenty of armies out there that have the upper hand on a force like this from the get-go. Anything that can deepstrike reliably (pods, Daemons, Deathwing) will be on top of you fast, and can turn your contest-late-game trick on its head. Non-Vetspam Guard lists can outlast you and outshoot you at range. Dark Eldar will be on you quick, fast, and in a hurry with piles and piles of poisoned splinter shots.

 

All-foot is really tough topull off, but it is a fun way to go. Just know that you'll pull some abyssmal matchups against many non-Marine forces.

[MordentHex]

My foot marine army i consists of mostly Tac squads. Dark eldar can be a problem sometimes. But they really do have to zoom through a horrendous amount of firepower. I often run Korsarro Khan to give my army the ability to flank. missile launchers and flamers are good friends although alot of the times the "miss"ile launchers do little to nothing. With a foot marine army you really do have to do combat leaps. 1 squad alone really wont cut it.

depending on points my foot SM army:

Khan

1 full 10 man sternguard

1 or 2 dreadnoughts

6 full tac squads: mix of special and heavy weapons.

1 or 2 full assault squad 1 with 2 flamers, other with 3 plasmapistols

1 or 2 Thunderfire cannon

1 or 2 full dev squads

I try to keep my serg's equipment light.

At about 2500 points i can field an entire company if im smart with my points The 2 thunderfire cannon can really ruin your opponents ability to advance into you fast with 8 subterranean blast flying into them and forcing them to move as if in difficult terrain and vehicles making dangerous terrain tests if they want to move. Also the other 2 munition types really do help with the higher strength. My list is in no way competitive but it is fun to march into my opponent and i have enough marine bodies to give some people pause.

[Warprat]

I play an all Marine foot list using the vanilla codex...

 

I have mainly played against Tau and Space Wolves, mostly I tie and sometimes win, once in a while a loss. One time I got a game in against a Tyranid player running a Swamplord (what a nightmare) and tied him. I have played some muli-player scrums and done decently. Sadly, I play rather infrequently.

 

The key to not getting slaughtered is in the flexibility of the Marine Codex and deployment. Use Combat Tactics when appropriate, and always remember the And They Shall Know No Fear special rules. Combat Squads against superior Close Combat troops like Space Wolves. Full Squads against Tau, so your surviving marines can assault. Shoot the assaulty and assault the shooties. Blow up transports and plasma cannon/flamer the survivors. Always remember the mission, and deploy accordingly. If you can get away with simply avoiding destruction to win, hunker down and hide. If you have to assault, try to do so quickly, and/or with huge numbers. A half table crawl will kill you in a couple turns of enemy fire. This is an army you want to usually deploy second, to take advantage of enemy placement, as your movement is severely limited. Sometimes it is better to spread out, while other times you want to concentrate your whole army in one area. The army is always a challenge to play, but fun.

 

 

 

This is one of my typical lists.

 

1500pts

 

HQ (145pts)

 

1 Chapter Master- Power Sword, Melta Bombs

 

 

ELITES (585pts)

 

1 10 man Terminator Squad- 2 Cyclones

1 Dreadnought- Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer

 

 

TROOPS (770pts)

 

4 10 man Tactical Squads- Combi-Flamer, Melta Bombs, Plasma Cannon, Flamer

[Validar]

The thing about GK is that they would much rather spend their time throwing blessed bullets into whatever approaches than sit and pass time in a vehicle. 60 strike squad members with psybolts and psycannons sounds somewhat scary already, and we're not talking purifiers or terminators yet.

 

I have brought my army from a friend, so my options are limited, which means I often have a land raider in my list. It is very rare that I have anything actually sitting in the land raider. I really have nothing I would rather have inside a land raider instead of standing outside shooting away enemies.

 

This makes me believe that an all-infantry GK army would be very much viable. I can hardly see any C: SM list (my primary army) at all take out such a list with anything approaching ease.

 

I did play a Blood Angels infantry army at an ETC qualification event (librarian, reclusiarch, 2x priest, 3x scout bikes with PF, 1x dreadnought in DP and assault marines with jumppacks for the rest of my money). The army was very effective in dominating the table with its movement and mass. I had an awesome game against an Eldar skimmer army where I could jump around and dominate much of the table with sheer pressence (needless to say the two super-fast moving armies did not see a lot of action before the end).

Very viable, very entertaining armylist.

[Roma]

Let us not forget the crushing power of the black tide...

[Stormshadow]

If you are OK with FW models there is a master of the forge that gives one unit in your army hell fire rounds. My friend use him in a footslogging Ironhands army.

 

The HQ and the Telion Scouts sets up in a ruin some were. The rest of the army marches forward like a bulldozer. Assault terminators in front, giving cover to the Terminators following them. A teach marine assigned to ether of the units. An Ironclad behind them, giving cover to two other dreads with TLLC’s. And behind them all, there are two units of scouts running around, trying to stay out of sight. There are also two Land speeders in his army, hiding behind the dreads mostly, and ready to move forward and kill a Vindicator ore similar, I guess you could trade them fore attack bikes if you like…

 

 

HQ:

Can’t remember his name, he’s got a conversion beamer and two whips.

 

Elites:

 

10x Terminators: 2x cyclone ML.

 

5x Assault Terminators: 5x TH/SS.

 

Teach marine: Harness

 

Troops:

 

10x Telion scouts:

 

5X Scouts: 5x Shotguns, cloaks.

 

5X Scouts: 5x Shotguns, cloaks.

 

Fast:

 

Speeder: MM, HF

 

Speeder: MM, HF

 

Heavy:

 

Dreadnought: TLLC

 

Dreadnought: TLLC.

 

Iron Clad.

 

The list is a pain, you can’t really charge them, and you can’t rely shoot them to death ether. And I play GK :). I can only win by tailoring fore this list specifically.