ThousandSons and Death Guard

[Kol Saresk]

Hey it just hit me that in both of these Legions, there was a primary split between the favored son(Typhus and Ahriman) and the Primarch(Mortarion and Magnus). Just a little bit of irony that two of the opposing Legions have that much in common.

[Dammeron]

I think it was a deliberate design choice back when these characters were created during second ed (Ahriman) and 3.5 (Typhus). The initiative seemed to be to emphasize how followers of Chaos were many and varied in their motivations and philosophies; not simply raving nihilists and lunatics who'd abandoned all they are to the Dark Gods. Thus we have Ahriman, who is, in many respects, much "purer" in terms of his philosophies than his Primarch Magnus, who finally abandoned any and all pretension of self will to the inevitable and inescapable manipulations of Tzeentch, whereas Ahriman has retained something of the Thousand Son's original scholastic and transcendental philosophies, however misguided, and still stubbornly refuses to accept Chaos as his master.

 

Similarly, Typhus and Mortarion both demonstrate different ways in which Nurgle might be served: Mortarion reflects Nurgle's aspects as the lord of complacent sentimentality; of ideological decay and abandonment of self will to indulgent misery; he is the slow-burning fever, the malaise, whereas Typhus is the far more active; reflecting Nurgle in his aspect as the Lord of Fear, the bringer of despair; the raging pandemic that can scour the populations of entire planets. It is interesting that the servants of diametrically opposing Gods demonstrate a similar dynamic in terms of their legion's schisms. There are other similarities too: despite the various schisms they have suffered, both are quite cohesive for Traitor Legions, the bulk of them operating from central bases within the Eye of Terror. Both also fell into their current loyalties as a result of coercion rather than conscious choice: Magnus found himself caught by the snare of his own hubris in thinking he could deal with Warp entities and come out with the better side of the deal, Mortarion found his own strength and resilience turned against him as the Warp-born Destroyer plague ravaged him and his entire legion. Since then, both have become arguably the most fanatical and favoured of their respective patrons; the highest of Daemon Princes, and commanders of their Master's daemonic legions.

[Beachymike123]

sorry to be a party pooper here Dammeron but IIRC mortarian had already fallen into Horus's band of merry men before the destroyer hive ravaged his legion. In Flight Of The Eisenstein mortarian and angeron are talking while on board the Vengeful Spirit, and the death guard dropped the life eater virus onto the planet surface prior to that. it was while they were marooned in the warp that they were forced to side with nurgle as a way to save themselves.

but this also leads back to the OP as the 1k sons didn't want to side with the ruinous powers, but had to out of neccessity to survive against the wolves. and so the plot thickens... :lol:

edit: sorry, was also supposed to say mortarian sided with horus because of his ideals, in wanting to better humanity, while angeron did so because he alone believed he could save humanity.

[the jeske]

yes but mortarion went nurgle becasue there was no other way . only tyfus was the "more guy" when the hive hit the Death Guard. they are identical . mortarion was sure his/his legions resiliance was suprem , just like magnus though about himself and his legions mastery of the warp .

[Dammeron]

sorry to be a party pooper here Dammeron but IIRC mortarian had already fallen into Horus's band of merry men before the destroyer hive ravaged his legion. In Flight Of The Eisenstein mortarian and angeron are talking while on board the Vengeful Spirit, and the death guard dropped the life eater virus onto the planet surface prior to that. it was while they were marooned in the warp that they were forced to side with nurgle as a way to save themselves.

but this also leads back to the OP as the 1k sons didn't want to side with the ruinous powers, but had to out of neccessity to survive against the wolves. and so the plot thickens... :D

edit: sorry, was also supposed to say mortarian sided with horus because of his ideals, in wanting to better humanity, while angeron did so because he alone believed he could save humanity.

 

Apologies; this misunderstanding is due to the manner in which I worded my response: when I said "...their current loyalties" in reference to Magnus and Mortarion, I meant their specific faith (i.e. to Tzeentch and Nurgle respectively). Mortarion did indeed rebel before he fell to Nurgle, but wasn't a conscious or witting follower of the Ruinous Powers until he fell to the Destoyer Plague, hence being coerced into his loyalty to Nurgle rather than choosing it consciously. Magnus also consciously chose to rebel against the emperor in his own way, by defying his edicts concerning sorcery. But he didn't consciously fall to Tzeentch worship; he was conned and coerced into it via subtle manipulation of his own unfathomable ego.

[Warsmith Aznable]

From a gaming point of view it makes sense, and was probably inevitable because they needed representative HQ choices after they took Primarchs off the table. So you've got the primarchs wholly given over to the Great Game in Warp, but these champions who still have some reasons to come out of it and end up as a realistic unit in someone's army list.