Captain Laavain Sunder Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Im fairly new to this army... and ive been watching alot of battle reports, im currently near the end of the book 'battle of the fang' and im really getting into the feel of this army. Building my list to how i like the feel but also trying to be fairly competitive Its really annoying me with this long fang missle launcher spam. same with the razor back. i dont get why people seem to play this way, in almost every report. the lists to be almost identical. can someone shed some light on why fellow space wolves seem to play this way?, follow the same template and be so monotonous?? --------------- Edited title. Please do not bypass swear filter.---LR Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Fang Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Simply, it works. Its allot of firepower for not many points, not everyone uses it but as it works you will see it allot in competitive lists. Most armies end up with a cookie cutter at some point or another, this looks like ours. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Youll find this in most every army- people go with what is easy and effective for them. However, youll also see alot of posts around here for other army styles- no razorbacks, other LF setups... my preference for all DP armies, Valerians combined arms forces, etc etc etc. Space Wolves are blessed with a codex that allows for alot of custom building that doesnt hurt our effectiveness much. So dont worry so much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Personally I think its a myth that everyone runs with Razorbacks or even the majority of people, its certainly not true with the UK tournament scene. There are other options than it. Long fangs are different, they really are the only viable competitive heavy support choice, if you care about winning then you will want long fangs, if you don't then go with what you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 There are many different competetive lists in 40k but some are less forgiving than others. Lists like the one described in this thread are fairly simple to use regardless of external factors like terrain, mission, opponents etc, since the list aims to do the same thing regardless of these other elements. If the game plan doesn't need to be changed, then there are less chances of a misstake being made. There is a negative element to taking a list which is easier to use and that's basically you leave yourself open to paper-rock-scissors 40k gaming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Here's a rule your you to do your lists by... IT'S YOUR ARMY. DON'T BEEN A SHEEP. Like others have said. The spam lists have been tried, tested and copied to death. However. If you want a bit of fluff. Try other things and ignore the haters :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The same reason you see a lot of assault marines and not lots of tacticals in BA lists Though actually i see a lot of thunderwolves in the lists going round at the minute i think you are overblowing it if any thing wolves are least mech spam of marine codexes with long fangs and twc helping to make a few hybrid lists Now Razorbacks popularity in marine lists 5th ed has made mech very powerful so if you look at most armies from any codexes they will be mech razorbacks give gh a heavy weapon so combine nicely and fit the msu philosophy I still see competitive lists with rhinos in i must say long fangs with missiles are just too cheap to turn down i tend to mix mine up a bit though to cover other threats also check out the army lists here a quick look at the first 5 i got Logan wing , more rhinos than razorbacks, few dp, Drop pod list, a vindicator and thunder wolves and no razorspam so i not sure where you are looking sounds like YTTH the Space wolf blog has a few as well Space wolf blog Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I've found that because of the whole cookie cutter razor spam space wolves list, that's what people tend to think when they hear they are going up against us. So, in the back of their mind they are already trying to think of ways to beat that particular list. Which is why i enjoy throwing curve balls at my opponents: Plasmacannons in LF squads, use of rhinos, use of Murderous hurricane, taking swift claws. It takes people usually a turn or two to figure out a strategy in order to take this varied threat. Admittedly, the better players in the competitive scene will be less "shocked" by doing this but it's still there in whatever small amount to be monopolised upon. figure out what style of play works best for you and is fun for you to play. Then just tailor your list accordingly. Oh and welcome brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Bloodaxe Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Im fairly new to this army... and ive been watching alot of battle reports, im currently near the end of the book 'battle of the fang' and im really getting into the feel of this army. Building my list to how i like the feel but also trying to be fairly competitive Its really annoying me with this long fang missle launcher spam. same with the razor back. i dont get why people seem to play this way, in almost every report. the lists to be almost identical. can someone shed some light on why fellow space wolves seem to play this way?, follow the same template and be so monotonous?? --------------- Edited title. Please do not bypass swear filter.---LR As others have said it works. I find the best way to play this or any other game is to play it your way. It is what it is. I play for fun. Your annoyance is shared by others. Those of us who "spam" missiles and wolf scouts , miss out on the other things and modelling opportunities this fine codex offers. My personal tastes are to run what others don't. For example rhinos AND Heavy Bolter Razorbacks. I like the Razor because it's cheap and I like Dakka! The other thing I like to do is use all Heavy bolter long fangs in conjunction with predators with heavy bolters and autocannons. Just fun. It keeps the monotony down. I have no ego to bruise so I don't care about wins. I care about did I have fun? Did the guy playing me have fun? You never have to succumb to what others in our hobby do. Just continue to represent the wolves with honour and play the way you like! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 The other thing I like to do is use all Heavy bolter long fangs in conjunction with predators with heavy bolters and autocannons. Just fun. It keeps the monotony down. let me make a wild guess . you do this when you play against foot armies or nids , or orks etc that is not making it more fun . that is tailoring. also I dont understand why people are saying those builds are copypasta or taken from the net . you dont need net to see that a hvy support choice with cheap 5 RL with a possible added cyclon which can target 2 differnt targets and can get an upgrade to be even more shoty [razorback] is top notch. Same with rune priests . or GH . But truth be told the SW dex doesnt realy have a lot of bad stuff[unlike other dex] as long as someone stays away from bloodclaws then there isnt much one can do wrong with the dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 as long as someone stays away from bloodclaws then there isnt much one can do wrong with the dex. I disagree with this statement. Bloodclaws have their place in our army and can be used very effectively, especially as large packs or as a supporting charge unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Bloodaxe Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 The other thing I like to do is use all Heavy bolter long fangs in conjunction with predators with heavy bolters and autocannons. Just fun. It keeps the monotony down. let me make a wild guess . you do this when you play against foot armies or nids , or orks etc that is not making it more fun . that is tailoring. also I dont understand why people are saying those builds are copypasta or taken from the net . you dont need net to see that a hvy support choice with cheap 5 RL with a possible added cyclon which can target 2 differnt targets and can get an upgrade to be even more shoty [razorback] is top notch. Same with rune priests . or GH . But truth be told the SW dex doesnt realy have a lot of bad stuff[unlike other dex] as long as someone stays away from bloodclaws then there isnt much one can do wrong with the dex. You've guessed incorrectly. I am almost 50 years old man. I have stomped my fair share when I was younger. No need now. I am a bit older and I think more mature. I play like I said, for fun! I do it VS everyone! :) That's the fun! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mar Bloodaxe Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 as long as someone stays away from bloodclaws then there isnt much one can do wrong with the dex. I disagree with this statement. Bloodclaws have their place in our army and can be used very effectively, especially as large packs or as a supporting charge unit. They have a place in mine as well. Especially when they are on bikes! they work wonderfully in conjunction with pods, giving the Grey Hunters support! throw a wolf priest in there and then you have a super awesome unit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Longfangs are just tactically flexible. Longfangs need help in dawn of war missions in order to get into position for turn 2 shooting, hence the choice to include the razorback. I also think there are plenty of armies out there that encourage something other than 5x rockets on the long fangs. If you are building an all comers list, then long fangs are hard to beat. I am guilty of bringing multiple heavy bolter backs and rockets and lascannons on my longfangs, they just work exceptionally well in supporting my GH's and TWC in doing their jobs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3035864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 long fangs have the best beards and therefore are the sexiest of space marines. Theyre also cheap as chips, MLaunchers are cheap/versatile as they can take on infantry and vehicles at a decent range, and they can fire at two targets if you want. Razorbacks are a cheap (ish) way to get extra lascannons/plasma into a force that lacks in that respect slightly. And as mentioned above, are very useful in dawn of war scenarios for getting your LF into position. Personally i tend to run two squads of long fangs, with mixes of ML and PC in each one. Ive cut down on a lot of transports recently after my regular opponent (my housemate) got used to me using them. Last game i played 1500 points with only two rhinos in and fared very well....so razor/rhino spam certainly isnt the be all and end all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabouras Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I run a 6-man squad, 2 with Lascannons for tank hunting, 2 with Heavy Bolters for anti-troop & 1 with Plasma Cannon for light vehicles or anti-troop again. They ride a Razorback with Assault cannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Long fangs are different, they really are the only viable competitive heavy support choice, if you care about winning then you will want long fangs, if you don't then go with what you want. Oh wow, just putting it out there eh? I completely disagree. I like to win, and I don't use Long Fangs. And this amazing thing happens: I win games. Whodathunk the intarwebs could be wrong right? Don't get me wrong, Long Fangs are great, in some armies they have their place. They also cater to a certain style of play and depend very much on what else is included in the list. Personally? I don't like them, I don't use them often (although I find I include them more often in 1000 where their effectiveness to points cost vs potential matchups (the types of units I can expect to face at that points level) is just too good to ignore), and don't even come into the radar at 1850 for units to field. I prefer Land Speeders and Drop Pod Grey Hunter packs with Cyclone Wolf Guard for my ranged support. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If Im running my mechanized lists Ill always include a pack of LFs- and usually they will have the only razorback in the entire army. If its DPing then its more take it or leave it depending on my needs- but they often dont show up tell 2k or so. I rarely field a second pack- I just dont need it usually. Though that maybe changing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I dont agree that Long fangs are the only competitive HS choice in C:SW Preds are competitive and help increase the number vehicle hulls in mech army Vindcators are also increasing useful with paladin/terminator lists I have had good experiences with vindis at tournaments Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I dont agree that Long fangs are the only competitive HS choice in C:SW Preds are competitive and help increase the number vehicle hulls in mech army Vindcators are also increasing useful with paladin/terminator lists I have had good experiences with vindis at tournaments It will be interesting to see if 6th changes LOS rules again as that would help the tanks a lot the same way TLOS helped the fangs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I don't think there are an increasing number of Paladin lists at tournaments, they are a poor choice in the GK codex, vindicators just don't cut the mustard, the fact that 50% of the time you are going to make a vindicator useful after a pen makes them too unreliable. Predators are OK but why would you take predators when you can take a more survivable pack of Long Fangs who put out more damage and can attack twice as many targets for a similar amount of points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Because they distract people from your more vulnerable rhinos. Same reason you take vindicators. If they shoot its just gravy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If Im running my mechanized lists Ill always include a pack of LFs- and usually they will have the only razorback in the entire army. If its DPing then its more take it or leave it depending on my needs- but they often dont show up tell 2k or so. I rarely field a second pack- I just dont need it usually. Though that maybe changing. What do you think about a configuration to this effect: 2xMM, 3xML in a drop pod. I would pod this unit down alongside a Grey Hunters unit in an opponents backfield to attempt to establish local superiority in the enemies own backfield while only having a minor dropoff in ranged ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If Im running my mechanized lists Ill always include a pack of LFs- and usually they will have the only razorback in the entire army. If its DPing then its more take it or leave it depending on my needs- but they often dont show up tell 2k or so. I rarely field a second pack- I just dont need it usually. Though that maybe changing. What do you think about a configuration to this effect: 2xMM, 3xML in a drop pod. I would pod this unit down alongside a Grey Hunters unit in an opponents backfield to attempt to establish local superiority in the enemies own backfield while only having a minor dropoff in ranged ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 If Im running my mechanized lists Ill always include a pack of LFs- and usually they will have the only razorback in the entire army. If its DPing then its more take it or leave it depending on my needs- but they often dont show up tell 2k or so. I rarely field a second pack- I just dont need it usually. Though that maybe changing. What do you think about a configuration to this effect: 2xMM, 3xML in a drop pod. I would pod this unit down alongside a Grey Hunters unit in an opponents backfield to attempt to establish local superiority in the enemies own backfield while only having a minor dropoff in ranged ability. Personally if that dropped into my area of the table it would be dead before it ever got a chance to shoot, seems a massive waste of points to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250393-the-whole-long-fangrazorback-stuff/#findComment-3036488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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