TheWulfen92 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 It seems from reading lots of peoples lists on here that the common dreadnought has fallen out of favour. Unless it is either one of the blood angels stuped dread variants (mumbes about blood sucking nancy boys) not many lists include them I havent played a game in many years admittedly but I played the current edition when it first came out and loved my dreads. A dread with a DCCW and an assault cannon was the first thing id include in any army. 1 once took out a whole squad of termis in 1 turn!! was wondering whether anyone had any ideas why then are no longer a stock option. As for 115 points i think they are one of the best units in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I usually run 2 in my DPing force, and I love those days when they allow FW so I can bring Bjorn down in a pod too.... Footslogging dreads I usually only run one of- good fire support, and a bit of oomph in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I havent played a game in many years admittedly but I played the current edition when it first came out and loved my dreads. A dread with a DCCW and an assault cannon was the first thing id include in any army. 1 once took out a whole squad of termis in 1 turn!! was wondering whether anyone had any ideas why then are no longer a stock option. As for 115 points i think they are one of the best units in the game. I love my Dreadnoughts. The thing is, most one-wound 100+ point models tend to do more, overall. I have a tournament coming up next weekend, and I'm planning on making a fun to play four Dread list with Logan; need to forum dive and find out whether Logan can be taken at the same time as Bjorn since both have Majesty. My other HQ, a WP won't be taking that saga. As far as Dreads go, the problem is that points pinching is seemingly the name of the game these days. You're 10 points higher than what a base SW Dread costs, however, that still provides something relatively killy; Dreads are just easy to kill and the large number of weapons these days that can do them in is not helping either. Edit: formatting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I havent played a game in many years admittedly but I played the current edition when it first came out and loved my dreads. A dread with a DCCW and an assault cannon was the first thing id include in any army. 1 once took out a whole squad of termis in 1 turn!! was wondering whether anyone had any ideas why then are no longer a stock option. As for 115 points i think they are one of the best units in the game. I love my Dreadnoughts. The thing is, most one-wound 100+ point models tend to do more, overall. I have a tournament coming up next weekend, and I'm planning on making a fun to play four Dread list with Logan; need to forum dive and find out whether Logan can be taken at the same time as Bjorn since both have Majesty. My other HQ, a WP won't be taking that saga. As far as Dreads go, the problem is that points pinching is seemingly the name of the game these days. You're 10 points higher than what a base SW Dread costs, however, that still provides something relatively killy; Dreads are just easy to kill and the large number of weapons these days that can do them in is not helping either. Edit: formatting Yes, you can take both Bjorn and Logan. As long as they dont have the same wargear/saga's , word for word, point for point, you are fine. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Plus, the restriction doesn't apply to special characters, and both are special characters. I don't play with a Dreadnought often, simply because they compete with Wolf Guard, Wolf Scouts, and Lone Wolves. I've got 6+ Elite units with only 3 slots in the FOC to put them in. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milez Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Plus the way I look at it, dreads only have 1 wound. all it takes in a glance to ruin a dread, lose that ranged firepower, or worst yet, get immobilized in a position, all your enemy has to do is avoid a very narrow fire lane and stay away. An immobile dread is a terrain piece. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Plus, the restriction doesn't apply to special characters, and both are special characters. I don't play with a Dreadnought often, simply because they compete with Wolf Guard, Wolf Scouts, and Lone Wolves. I've got 6+ Elite units with only 3 slots in the FOC to put them in. Valerian This is why I don't use them much either. However, if I were to use them more, I would go with Grey Mage's strat, DPing them in. IMO, our dreads are elites, not heavy support (like GK dreads), so i don't get the urge to use them as such. They already start with an assault cannon (unique to SW dreads), so I say slap on a heavy flamer for 10pts and send them after infantry (getting into cc as soon as possible to avoid missile barrage). I think, going with Grey Mage's DP method, I'd leave my dread(s) in reserve, dropping GH packs first. After having a turn at trying to take out my opponent's heavy support, I'd then hopefully have some breathing room to drop my dread(s) without fear of getting shot before engaging in combat on the following turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyson_Vore Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 It could just be my luck, but I have had a lot of sucess using a Venerable Dread and slogging him by foot across the board, the worst that has ever happened to him was weapon destroyed, and they took the Assault Cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3035960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I love dreads, and generally try to fit at least one in when playing 1000pt plus games. I like to kit mine out with P.cannon, h.flamer/DCCW, extra armour, as i feel the rest of the wolves codex leaves little to no room for plasma cannons (and i play termies a lot) However in the last few battles ive had (although some units have some bad games) theyve consistently performed the least well, either getting destroyed on the first/second turn, or not being able to move fast enough to get into combat. As a heavy support option - pointswise once you upgrade the ass.cannon to say plasma or L.cannon...your into the same points territory as a 4ML long fang unit...a unit which can split fire, put out more firepower, and take more wounds. I like the idea of drop podding a couple of dreads though..as then theyre doing their intended role (in my eyes) which is getting up close and stuck in - something theyre gonna struggle to do when footslogging (unless your opponent has some very unlucky shooting). However ill be waiting for the new rules before investing in a load of drop pods. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3036160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Too many points, too fragile, too slow - that's basically the line on Dreds. The most common uses for them are to stick LR weapons on them and have them sit in the backfield (in cover) to shoot, or to put them in a DP with MM to take out a high-priority target. In a SW army, I think they suffer from being in the Elite slot. Especially the DDM (Dred, Drop-pod, Multimelta) roll they lose out to Wolf Scouts which can do it better for cheaper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3036560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I love my dreads all around. I roll two of them with complimentary loadouts. They are an anvil to my thunderwolves, or a tantalizing target when i roll out a bunch of rhinos and hide them behind. I do wish i could have 2 dreads and 2 lone wolves to march down the field together though. The elite slot really hinders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3036575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My stepson and I are going to try a Loganwing list with 3 dreads dping down along with the WG squads. It will be interesting to see how it works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3036772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmurph Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Dreads have two big issues. One is that they are expensive for an AV 12 hull with 2 attacks and one ranged weapon. Two ranged makes them a bit more useful, but then razorbacks are generally better for the cost. Venerables are an improvement, but at a huge cost. The other issue is SWs have super competitive Elites in WG and Scouts. Really a Lone Wolf in terminator armor does what you would think a dread would do. BAs have good dreads because 1 is a psyker and the other gets Blood Talons to make up for low A. DC dreads also ignore shaken/stunned, all at no cost premium. GKs have good shooting dreads bc Psyammo makes the ACs S8 and they can basically ignore shaken and stunned. No real easy fix- allowing them as Heavy means they still lose to LFs. I would say they should at least get counter-attack and acute senses, maybe +1 A or a points drop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragan Stormwolf Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I really like to play my dreads and almost always field my venerable. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I have to agree, the Elite slot only being 3, things like Wolf Guard and Scouts fill them up quick, along with Lone Wolves and even Iron Priests. I love dreads and want to start using them more, but for most competitive lists, the slots and/or points get used up elsewhere before considering Dreads usually. Sad truth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 There are a couple of reasons really. 1) Most of our stuff is included in those slots, including wolf guard, Lone Wolves, Scouts, solid, fieldable stuff that bring something to the army that makes finding room for a big generalist, or something that the Heavy and Fast slots already do pretty well (Twinlinked autocannon dreads when compared to long fangs) That often, the dread simply doesn't fill a gap. 2) The generaltist dreadnort has to get in range of melta, Grey Knight Assualt Cannons and all sorts of nasty stuff, such as scarabs, to shorten it's lifespan. This results in dreads being hard to wield in a game where units are generally more reliable then armour in taking those kind of hits. A dreadnort is frail in compersion. 3) Competion for simlar roles. Long Fangs is much more efficent for shooting, Land speeders make better throwaway support, Thunder Wolves and Lone Wolves, even Grey Hunter Packs are strong rivals for CC support. While the Dreadnort is often equipped for multple roles that make it generally more flexable, it struggles to directly compete in any single area. Easpically when compared to the above factor that can cut short it's usage. So it depends really, they are a good support unit, but are deceptively frail due to the sheer number of threats they have to endure within their sweet zone and competion from other units within and without their support slots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Throughout the editions, I've always thought that Dreadnoughts have been a little lackluster, with WS4, BS4, and just two Attacks. For mellenia-old Chapter heroes entombed in the most powerful exo-suit the Imperium can provide, they honestly don't impress that much. I think that it is a shame that Mat Ward had to invent a completely new unit, the Dreadknight, to do what Dreadnoughts should have been doing all along (in my opinion, of course). This is a shame, because thematically the Dreadnoughts, to me, are one of the coolest concepts in 40k. Despite their shortcomings, I like the idea of them enough to try to rotate one into an army list every now and then anyway. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I typically field at least one dreadnought, sometimes Bjorn as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I typically field at least one dreadnought, sometimes Bjorn as well. Of all people, you should definitely be fielding Bjorn. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipherChost Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 For some reason my track record with scouts has been poor... So I have been using a melta dread in a pod and have been doing well with it. I have popped plpenty of vehicles and have slowly stood there and slowly taken down squads that lacked power fists, namely long ranged support infintry. I like him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I love the idea of Dreadnoughts, just a little miffed with what they do on the field, two attacks just isn't impressive (especially when you had a 4 attack beast that you could take as a HQ choice for ages) for something that is meant to be awesome, I'd gladly pay more points for the increase in capability, it just doesn't sit right. Plus I use Scouts and Wolf Guard all the time. Even Contemptors only get two attacks, sure WS5 and some other nifty rules for Wolves but it just seems a little underwhelming, though I love Contemptors and will be fielding a fair few come Apocalypse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeenos Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I used to use one in my list, but it was a fully mech list everyone in a rhino and nothing back field to be picked on. The dred would march up the field with a PC providing some fire support as the rest of the army rushed up. But this was back when we could take a dred as an HQ. I do wish Lone Wolves were 1-3 for a single elite slot though, that would be nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakiq Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I'd never make a 1500+ list without at least one, Dreadnoughts were one of the models that pulled me into the setting. They seldom let me down even when deployed without a pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3037944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 In the last edition used to always have a venerable dread., but not they are too many points for too few benefits. But since I'm lacking in the wolf guard numbers, not a fan of lone wolfs, and don't use scouts all that much I tend to take a dread loaded with a mm or rc depending on what I face. They do alright, unless I have horrible luck and can't do anything like the last time I played necrons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3038003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijamon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just picked up a dreadnought drop pod from FW, drop podding, assaulting on turn 1 Bjorn = heaven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250403-a-lack-of-dreadnoughts/#findComment-3038588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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