Chaos lacking Thunderhawks

[minigun762]

I've seen in quoted a few times, often in BFG references, that Chaos marines lacked Thunderhawks but does anyone have more information why?

 

My understanding is that the Thunderhawk was a cheaper STC replacement for the standard Stormbird and production started prior to the Heresy. None of that makes me think that traitors wouldn't have just as much access to them as loyalists.

[Araziel]

The only theory I have has been derived from a passage in the HH novel Fulgrim - I believe its a section detailing Tarvitz's hijacking of one to head down to Istvaan to help the loyalists.

 

I think there was some mention of the fact that it was a brand new design at that point, and that only a few Marines were even trained effectively to fly them. Now, if this is true, then the only conclusion I can logically come to is that as they were new when Horus decided to go mad, then maybe the loyalists were able to cut their supply from Mars. If that were the case, then that would explain why the traitors don't have them in abundance - the only Thunderhawks they would have access to at this point would be original patterns that would have arrived before the events on Istvaan, and then any that had been captured and re-purposed from loyalists since then.

 

Bear in mind that all of this is personal speculation, I don't have any evidence to support this. If anybody knows different, feel free to correct me.

[Seahawk]

Traitor Fleets, as opposed to Renegade Fleets, do indeed have access to Thunderhawk gunships, but only if they have a Chaos Space Marine crew. There are traitor thunderhawks...it's just not shown in the 40k setting. Only in BFG is it shown that Chaos has them.

[Paradigm]

There are several scenes in the night lords trilogy that show traitors using thunderhawks.

[Bongfu]

Honestly, if you invested the time and money into building, converting, and painting a Chaos Thunderhawk, it would take a big dick to tell you that you cannot use it.

 

Fluff wise, I wouldn't see why they couldn't have them.

[dswanick]

Traitor Fleets, as opposed to Renegade Fleets, do indeed have access to Thunderhawk gunships, but only if they have a Chaos Space Marine crew. There are traitor thunderhawks...it's just not shown in the 40k setting. Only in BFG is it shown that Chaos has them.

Well, BFG and Apocalypse - where it says that any datasheet The Imperium can field, Chaos can field also.

[Eetion]

Wwll I'm going to ignore the game rules and concentrate on the fluff.

 

BFG, most of the cruisers are human crew and not Astartes battle barges or strike cruisers. And are not reflected in rules for Thunderhawks.

 

As for lack of Thunderhawks, they were seen as a mass produced stop gap for Stormbirds.

 

So if your Horus and raiding mars, what do you go for? You have let's say 50 pilots, Stormbirds or Thunderhawks?

 

Basicly Stormbirds do everything Thunderhawks and are widely considered to be better.

 

However, freshly turned renegades would no doubt bring in Thunderhawks, so Chaos probably do have access to them.

[Kol Saresk]

And not to mention, weren't the Stormbirds much larger and carried more weaponry?

[minigun762]

I should have been more clear that I was approaching the question more from a fluff/background perspective.

 

On the tabletop, I'm with Bongfu. If someone spent the time & energy to build a Thunderhawk then I'm down to let them play with it.

 

Now if they want to make a formal distinction and say that Chaos should be using Stormbirds, then forge world needs to go make me an awesome looking piece of kit.

 

Kol_Saresk: I do believe you're right, Stormbirds were larger and more powerful craft. The Thunderhawk was a cheap mass produced model that wasn't nearly as well liked at the time of the heresy, which is funny because 10k years later its regarded as quite powerful and an amazing piece of tech.

[hobointherain]

I'm just reading Dark Apostle, which describes the word bearers using thunderhawks a couple of times if I remember correctly. Ill try and find the page

[Vesper]

IIRC, Thunderhawks were introduced before the Horus Heresy. So all Chaos Legions (minus the Black one), should have access to it.

[Iron Lord]

I recall Abaddon having a personal thunderhawk in White Dwarf, way back when the metal thunderhawk came out. It was a pretty good conversion of that model.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Rules of Engagement by Graham McNeill describes the situation pretty clearly. It's a nice reading so I recommend you to check it out. It said that Thunderhaws was much cheaper to produce and much simpler to maintain than Stormbird, but design was so poor that none of Mechanicus put his name next to it. So as I understand it it's the same situation as with MKIV armour, Stormbird was developed during the Great Crusade, it was expensive but extremely effective and durable, while during the Heresy they had to switch to cheaper Thunderhawks, because even it's much worse than Stormbird it does it's job.

[minigun762]

Rules of Engagement by Graham McNeill describes the situation pretty clearly. It's a nice reading so I recommend you to check it out. It said that Thunderhaws was much cheaper to produce and much simpler to maintain than Stormbird, but design was so poor that none of Mechanicus put his name next to it. So as I understand it it's the same situation as with MKIV armour, Stormbird was developed during the Great Crusade, it was expensive but extremely effective and durable, while during the Heresy they had to switch to cheaper Thunderhawks, because even it's much worse than Stormbird it does it's job.

 

I remember that section but if anything, it would seem to justify the traitors (who appear to have more limited resources than the Imperium) using Thunderhawks as they are the "poor man's equivalent".

[Iron Lord]

So as I understand it it's the same situation as with MKIV armour,

 

Mark V, not mark IV. Mark V was a "stopgap" but Mark IV was exceptionally advanced, better than later marks in some ways.

[miteyheroes]

I recall Abaddon having a personal thunderhawk in White Dwarf, way back when the metal thunderhawk came out. It was a pretty good conversion of that model.

 

I remember this! It had symbols of all 4 gods on, or something?

[Brother Nathan]

just a thought. you are manning one of the any defence batteries defending terra. considering what all you are facing what are you likely to hoot at first, the pod things which are tiny and fast moving. the storm birds/thunderhawks which are slower moving but lowly sheilded. or the bigger ships which are barely moving but you are very unlikely to scratch whith the sheild generators? and when they got to terra they wernt expecting to fail. if it was damaged they probably abandond it to ge stuck into the fight. whilst the :cusse scars were likely attacking such things to prevent them beig fixed and bringing more reinforcements/ ammo as well as killing whoever was supposed to be fixing it). then when the retreat happened the damaged was useless cept to get them into the ships. some were likely used as distractions to keep the enemy fleets from fully engaging. dont forget the wolves and the smurfs were both arriving at the end of the fight for terra and so the haos were fighting a heavy retreat( and dont forget they had lost a lot of guys from the dropsite masacare and from the thing wherre they purged their own legions and the march to terra etc... ) infact chaos does still hae alot of tech considering...

[Lord_Caerolion]

IIRC, Thunderhawks were introduced before the Horus Heresy. So all Chaos Legions (minus the Black one), should have access to it.

 

You mean the Black Legion? They certainly have Thunderhawks. Just remember, the Legions can get gear in other ways than "inhereting" it. They've certainly picked up at least a few Thunderhawks from raids over the millenia.

[alphariusomegon20]

I have a pic somewhere on my comp of an EC Thunderhawk. I'll try to find the thing and post it.

[Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm]

3rd edition Codex mentioned low-flying Doomlords on the Jump Pack entry. But have not heard anything about them since.

[darth_giles]

3rd edition Codex mentioned low-flying Doomlords on the Jump Pack entry. But have not heard anything about them since.

Nice to know I wasn't the only one wondering what the heck a Doomlord was. It might have been a holdover from 2nd Edition, or it could've been something new that didn't work, like so many other things in the 3.0 Codex.

 

Doomrider comes to mind.

[Korellian]

Chaos legions/warbands definitely have thunderhawks. At the outbreak of the Horus heresy the legions had both thunderhawks and stormbirds. The reason thunderhawks were brought in is because they are STC technology. So they can be churned out really quickly and cheaply. So I would think by the end of the heresy (given the horrendous losses on both sides) there probably weren't many stormbirds left on either side.

 

Stormbirds were designed and built before the unification wars and like a lot of old tech the Imperium has no clue how to make them anymore. There may be a few stormbirds kicking around but any that are lost are literally irreplaceble to both chaos legions and the imperium.

[Night Talon]

In the night lords audio book throne of lies there have drop pods, gunships and heavy landers

 

So I would all the rest have them also