Un-unforgiven Successor Chapters and their reintegration

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Hail fraters.

 

There has been talks elsewhere of how successor Chapters not aware of their Unforgiven nature, or even who their Primarch was, would relate to their Primogenitor and Fallen-savvy brothers. Suppose then, that one such Chapter (let's tactically ignore the cause of their ignorance for the moment) attracts the attention of a group of Fallen intent on ending the legacy of the Lion, of which our Chapter is unwittingly a part of. A nasty fight later, our heroic Chapter Master and his best battle bros enter the chambers of the villains, who make a half-truth laden speech, as villains are wont to do (they're very traditional sunday cartoon villains indeed). The heroes are distraught by the information they are now privy to, end up suffering from WS and BS penalties due to their botched Willpower saves, and the Fallen manage to escape one way or the other.

 

Now they have an idea, though not a very well-formed one, sprinkled with altered or outright ignored facts as it were, of their origins, and why the other Ultras and successors sort of give them the cold shoulder when they fight together. On one hand, they're not sure of what the Dark Angels' reaction to the developments will be. On the other hand, they're loyalist gene-brothers whose highest command structure saw fit not to share what they learned when encountering the Fallen with the rank and file troops. What options would such a Chapter have in the way of proving themselves worthy to the remainder of the Unforgiven?

[pueriexdeus]

I am not sure that an Unforgiven Chapter would exist without any knowledge of their history, or a connection to their sibling Chapters. Kind of a quandary, the DA have the purest Gene seed but it is practically unused so the existence of a Chapter that know nothing of its DA lineage is doubtful.

 

As far as getting the cold shoulder from UM's, well consider the source, or did the Unknowing Unforgiven Chapter do something to deserve a less that positive reception by those they do battle with?

 

It is inconceivable that the Unknowing Unforgiven is being shunned because of the DA history, no one else knows about it. Those that find out seem to disappear.

 

If there was such an Unknowing Chapter roaming the stars it might prove to be fatal to attempt contact with the parent DA Chapter, seeking fealty. They could be perceived as Fallen...

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

I was hoping to cross the bridge of how they're ignorant of their origins when we got there, but.. :D

 

Let's say the Unforgiven were involved in an operation to defend Mechanicus assets, but withdrew from the theater of operations following a spike of Fallen activity close by. One of the techpriests just barely survives the onslaught of the <insert token enemy here>, but never forgets the actions of his supposed allies. He makes it his personal goal to take revenge on the sons of the Lion. Several years down the line, and following years of apparent zeal for Astartes-related technotheology, he attains a rank wherein he is allowed to monitor and use geneseed. The creation of a new Chapter is ordained, and instead of using the Ultramarine geneseed, he manipulates events so that the Dark Angels' seed is used instead. That's how he will exact his revenge; secretly depleting the Unforgiven's stocks of geneseed.

 

When the ruse is identified, and the techpriest "forcefully resigned", the Chapter is already well on its way to becoming full strength, and indeed has already proven its worth in early engagements. Much to the disgust of their supposed Ultramarine Primogenitors, they seem to have a tendency to shun honorable fighting in favor of expedient tactics if the enemy pushes them far enough. Their apothecaries believe their geneseed to have been tampered with in some way, as although they have no visible flaws, there are small differences from that of Guilliman (presumably, apothecaries are not trained to identify every type of geneseed outside of their own Chapter). Worst still, they seem fundamentally incapable of following certain dictates of the Codex Astartes, particularly in regards to redeployment when in unfavorable positions. The truth regarding machinations of the techpriest are kept indoors, but the Ultramarines can't be brought to believe such a Chapter is a true descendant of Guilliman.

 

Credible enough?

[Brother Immolator]

An interesting proposal though i believe its a bit 'messy'

 

Ill start from the reverse(bottom).

 

I ve been using this for many of my examples.The mortifactors,an UM chapter that the UM barely have consolidated with.

So your 'rift' between them and the UM is credible.

 

If the ruse was discovered IMHO there would be two things:

 

a)scrap the chapter.

b)The DA would receive a transmission from the ADmech:Hey guys,theres been a small screw up here in the logistics department,so if you dont mind showing those guys the ropes around here.BTW they have DA geenesheed.The formation of a chapter is an important thing.Further more since they depleted their stocks

they would have to request new and thereby telling the DA the truth of the matter.

I am not 100% sure on this but i think when a new chapter is formed some of its officers are vets from the parent chapter.After all how can they operate with only fresh made marines?

 

The last survivor scenario while not improbable is difficult to happen in the extreme (again IMHO).If there was a survivor from said world,i dont believe the DA wouldnt learn of it and 'deal' with it.

 

Closing i would go either way of the following:

 

Make the chapter a control group:They are of DA stock,they know it,but only their GM is part of the inner circle.

The rest know nothing of the secret.They are been used as contrast to the rest of the unforgiven to study the combat difference of psychological reactions on the battle brothers in high places(i.e this chapters death wing).

 

An inquisition designed chapter meant to infiltrate the ranks of the unforgiven to learn the secret.

That way you use the original scenario as an excuse made up from the inquisition (guys we screwed up with the geeneseed please keep them) that the unforgiven suspect,yet play along in order to try and reverse the situation.

 

So i would work it a bit on the reasons.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I think re-integration would be next to impossible for a chapter like this. The Inner Circle are paranoid to the extreme. They trust no-one but themselves because they know exactly what each one of them has done, gone through, how hes been tested, what his favorite colour is, they know the training regime, the know how they were taught, they share the same stories and tales. No matter which Chapter. A new chapter like this one would be un trusted and would be rejected, probably denieing that they share the same geneseed. This is because they cannot trust the new chapter and will never do so. Personally, I either expect the Chapter to be destroyed or, with this rejection, fall into the waiting arms of Chaos and thus then be destroyed.

 

That said, you may get a more liberal, open minded SGM at the time of the situation who then re-integrates them in some way.

 

IF they were to be re-integrated then I am sure that they would mind strip the senior members of the Chapter to learn every secret, to make sure they have not been tampered with, all in order to avoid letting in agents of =][= or something else. They may do a limited one down the chain as well, but the entire senior cadre would be interrogated by 'purity' tests. Maybe a couple of 'advisers' (Librarian and Chaplain) are left with the Chapter and they are ordered to work with another Chapter for X many years, slowly telling their members the secret and so they slowly build up the DW and RW units.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

All my ideas are messy, it's like a watermark for me. ;)

 

Since option a) is counter-productive to creating a Chapter not gone rogue (just yet), let's brainstorm around option :). Due to their quirks and general un-Ultramarine-y behavior, the training cadre is ordered by the Ultras to recall as soon as the Chapter can function alone for better or worse; they suspect some sort of tampering and would rather not associate further with a Chapter that shows its deviance so early on. Besides, there is already enough friction between the training cadre and the trainees as it is, they're unlikely to accept an "outsider" as Chapter Master gracefully. In the end, letting them "fight and die" (as in the quote from the Space Wolves codex) without taking every page of the Codex as gospel is preferable to having a Chapter gone mutineer and losing valuable veterans on ingrates (who have their Primarch's knack for strategy anyway).

 

Thus their early history is recorded sparingly, as none of the possible explanations for this schism with their "Primogenitor" are particularly ennobling or likely to foster a sense of pride in their colors by the later generations.

 

I'd rather avoid the cop out of the Mentors training them, by the way. ;)

 

Our techpriest was not meant as a sole survivor, I was unclear. His world does survive, but suffers nigh-complete devastation and a huge death toll in the end. Perhaps the Dark Angels weighted their options and determined that the ground forces could "handle" without them when they went for their Fallen prey; the survivors care not for that display of "trust" in their capabilities. The AdMech are certainly not pleased with the developments that made them lose many of their assets there, and so are more likely to omit the mess-up out of spite at first. By the time the Dark Angels and AdMech treat the incident as water under the bridge, the truth of the Chapter's origins has been erased from official records by a certain Inquisitor, and anyone who knows is smart enough to keep their mouths and assorted output devices shut.

 

Besides, the DAs have been tithing geneseed for a while now and are considerably less than proliferous in regards to foundings, a single Chapter is hardly likely to deplete their genestocks worse than that other time when the Angels of Vengeance bravely charged headlong into the Orkish Empire of Boss Gragnot the Planet Snatcha'. Remember, our vengeful Magos was busted earlier than he would've wanted. And it would reflect poorly on the AdMech for knowledge of such an event to reach the ears of the Astartes.

 

The certain Inquisitor mentioned previously makes it his pet project to study the behavior of the bastard Chapter and hopefully learn something from their true Primogenitor, and passes on the work to his successor and so on. Occasionally, they attempt to manipulate events to make them contact other Unforgiven, but such attempts rarely go beyond an exchange of hails, if they communicate at all. Until one day they run into a Fallen, who may be privy to their secrets...

[Brother Immolator]

Until one day they run into a Fallen, who may be privy to their secrets...

 

To the secrets of said chapter?(name BTW?it would make brainstorming a tad bit easier :))

 

Wouldnt that be almost impossible?Except if the fallen is a certain fallen who can do whatever he likes ;)

 

All my ideas are messy, it's like a watermark for me.

 

I hope i didnt offend by that remark.

 

At any rate,personally i would love to see this to take solid shape and form and then i believe ill be able to make some suggestions to improve it.

So many facts are uncertain right now.How much care you to stretch/change the 'mold' of the story?I have some free time so i might give it some thought if you dont mind changing some facts and send a pm to you or post it here.

 

I suppose that its for a future DIY chapter no?

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Until one day they run into a Fallen, who may be privy to their secrets...

 

To the secrets of said chapter?(name BTW?it would make brainstorming a tad bit easier ;))

 

Wouldnt that be almost impossible?Except if the fallen is a certain fallen who can do whatever he likes ;)

 

All my ideas are messy, it's like a watermark for me.

 

I hope i didnt offend by that remark.

 

At any rate,personally i would love to see this to take solid shape and form and then i believe ill be able to make some suggestions to improve it.

So many facts are uncertain right now.How much care you to stretch/change the 'mold' of the story?I have some free time so i might give it some thought if you dont mind changing some facts and send a pm to you or post it here.

 

I suppose that its for a future DIY chapter no?

 

I was hoping to -not- call them the Bastard Swords. xD I'll sleep on it, for the time being.

 

And I wasn't offended, merely stating a fact. I would've make a self-righteous/trolly/rude remark if I was offended and left in a huff. ;)

 

It's certainly shaping up to be a DYI chapter (might have to change the topic title).. For now, I was mostly interested in trying my hand in writing a short story about the Bastard Swords (name's a work in progress), possibly submit a sample to BL if I'm done it time and happy with the results. By all means, keep the comments and suggestions coming. I can't guarantee I'll alter the mold substantially, but if I see a particularly good direction the story could take..

 

And the Fallen in question may have planted a suggestion in our Magos scorn'd at some point...

[Grimdarkness]

I,d think the chapter would end up with a mess of IntC and libbys looking over the high command and a long time of the betryall stories and a lot of the history of the last 10,000 years. Maybe the chapters companys would end up being shadowed by ships of the unforgiven chapters.

[pueriexdeus]

Oooo, I can see this getting really fugly in a game sence.

 

Lets say that the DA have knowledge of their existence and have attached a few Inner Circle types to keep track of them. Then he who shall not be named comes into contact with a far flung outpost of the Unknowing Unforgiven and starts weaving his majik on them, let the games begin...

 

Could make for some hairy possibilities...

[Abascantus]

I think it's helpful to draw a distinction between 'Unforgiven' and 'Dark Angels descent'. So whilst all the Unforgiven are descended from the Dark Angels, not all chapters built from the Dark Angels gene seed are Unforgiven. Those built from the Dark Angels gene seed may share some of the behavioural traits that are passed genetically, but they would probably not have the cultural aspects of the Unforgiven.

 

New Unforgiven chapters seem to be able to be created at the request of the Dark Angels, who perhaps have some sort of role in mind for them and a vision of how they might compliment the existing forces of the Unforgiven/First Legion (see the description of the Disciples of Caliban in the DA codex). So in that way it is possible for new Unforgiven force to come into existence. Doubtless they would quickly be integrated into the 'inner circle' structure that is implied exists between the different Unforgiven chapters.

 

On the other hand, a chapter that was created from Dark Angels gene seed might be proud of their heritage (if they are aware of it at all). Or they might not actually care that much - Astartes Praeses chapters, for example, might have some DA traits, but their culture might well be very different. Their first loyalty might well to the Imperial authorities and defence against the forces of Chaos, whereas the Unforgiven's first loyalties usually appear to be to the quest for redemption. But I take your point - it would be interesting to see how they would react to finding out the Unforgiven's secret if they were genetically related.

 

Also, there seem to be examples of Chapters who built from, e.g., both Dark Angels and Ultramarines descent. I wonder how would such hybrid chapters react?

[Brother Immolator]

On the other hand, a chapter that was created from Dark Angels gene seed might be proud of their heritage (if they are aware of it at all). Or they might not actually care that much - Astartes Praeses chapters, for example, might have some DA traits, but their culture might well be very different. Their first loyalty might well to the Imperial authorities and defence against the forces of Chaos, whereas the Unforgiven's first loyalties usually appear to be to the quest for redemption. But I take your point - it would be interesting to see how they would react to finding out the Unforgiven's secret if they were genetically related.

 

Also, there seem to be examples of Chapters who built from, e.g., both Dark Angels and Ultramarines descent. I wonder how would such hybrid chapters react?

 

I have heard that last one but i dont seem to be able to find solid info on it and my databanks are fuzzy.

 

In regards to the Astartes Praeses:If there was am unforgiven chapter tailored for that role,i believe the DA would have pulled it into the inner circle out of convenience and necessity.After all operating near the EoT gives a good chance to locate a couple of fallen(those who fell to chaos anyways).

[Wayward]

Thing is, if a group of Fallen manage to do this, they've already won the fight. The implications would be catasthropic. The Unforgiven can go and erase a whole chapter out of existence and not attract attention. And even in the grimdark future of the 41st millenium, the "good" ones dont lose like that, keeping them allways on the verge its whats makes it fun. IMHO, for such a thing like that to happen, there must be a rad evolution on the general background.

[Octavulg]

My Ice Lords encounter this to some extent. Their training cadre was ambushed and mostly wiped out (there's more to it than that, but that is not important here), and the other Dark Angel chapters have not broached the subject because the training cadre members who survived weren't privy to the secrets.