Ferrus' Warhammer

[Demus Ragnok]

Qarassen, do you rmember the part in the description that says that the warhammer had wings that were back-swept, to help the hammer head look more like an eagle? Maybe that is what you are seeing and the cover artist simply blurred it to make it look like it was in motion, giving it the wrench appearance.

 

The picture clearly shows Ferrus holding a giant pipe wrench. No motion blur, its a pipe wrench. However out of place it may be I must admit pipe wrenches are actually pretty good weapons. Don't ask how I know that!

[Kol Saresk]

I couldn't tell because the picture won't get any bigger on my computer without the zoom blurring it.

[Grimdarkness]

Cover artists often take a few liberties.

It's all good, don't take them too seriously.

 

Appreciate the ones that rock and get it right instead. :blush:

 

Like the fact that all the Iron hand,s are not in terminator armour like the first company should be. Like why is that ironhand,s backed turned to an enemy? Like why the "Iron Hands" left hands are missing from some of the legion marines.

 

Taking a 2nd look at the pic what a silly spot to have the primarch,s fight each other.

[Lupe]

Look, I might be wrong on this, but I seem to remember the flow of events being different

 

- Horus decides to purge the loyalists in the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Emperor's Children and Death Guard to Istvaan III

- Horus sends Fulgrim to try and sway Ferrus to their cause

- Istvaan III happens. Eidolon is leading the Emperor's Children

- Fulgrim fights and subsequently Ferrus when the latter enrages over hints of treason. Fulgrim grabs Forgebreaker in the process

- Fulgrim returns to the legions at Istvaan III, and presents Horus with the weapon

- Horus entrenches on Istvaan V, establishes or completes secret pacts with the remainder of the traitor legions. Forgebreaker is sent to Perturabo as part of one of these pacts

- The Eisentein reaches Dorn. News of Horus' betrayal is out, and a force of 7 legions is sent to dispatch him

- Istvaan V happens. Ferrus is present there. Since he's lost Forgebreaker, he resorts to another weapon. In this case, a pipe wrench / servo arm / hammer-with-a-distinct-plumber-theme

 

This chain of events explains two things:

 

- How Perturabo got his hands on Forgebreaker

- Why Ferrus' weapon doesn't look like Forgebreaker's description

[The Emperor's Champion]

I didn't actually think that was Fulgrim when I first looked at it, I don't know why I had it in my head that it was Lucius. :huh:

I believe Lucius is actually front and center in the Emperor's Children line. The guy holding the giant claymore.

[Greyall]

- Istvaan V happens. Ferrus is present there. Since he's lost Forgebreaker, he resorts to another weapon. In this case, a pipe wrench / servo arm / hammer-with-a-distinct-plumber-theme

 

This chain of events explains two things:

 

- How Perturabo got his hands on Forgebreaker

- Why Ferrus' weapon doesn't look like Forgebreaker's description

 

Ferrus used Fulgrim's Fireblade (which the former had forged for his brother) at Isstvan V, and during his duel with the Phoenician. Perturabo got his hands on Forgebreaker because Horus gave it to him before the Siege of Terra.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I didn't actually think that was Fulgrim when I first looked at it, I don't know why I had it in my head that it was Lucius. :huh:

I believe Lucius is actually front and center in the Emperor's Children line. The guy holding the giant claymore.

 

 

Nah Lucius's hair is shorter than that. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...usPreHeresy.jpg

[Coryphaus 101]

- Istvaan V happens. Ferrus is present there. Since he's lost Forgebreaker, he resorts to another weapon. In this case, a pipe wrench / servo arm / hammer-with-a-distinct-plumber-theme

 

This chain of events explains two things:

 

- How Perturabo got his hands on Forgebreaker

- Why Ferrus' weapon doesn't look like Forgebreaker's description

 

Ferrus used Fulgrim's Fireblade (which the former had forged for his brother) at Isstvan V, and during his duel with the Phoenician. Perturabo got his hands on Forgebreaker because Horus gave it to him before the Siege of Terra.

This is pretty much dead on. For the start of the battle, Ferrus had a gun of some kind and his flaming (or maybe just hot) metal hands. When he faces off against Fulgrim he pulls out Fireblade, which Fulgrim smashed at their last face off, saying he wanted to kill Fulgrim with his own weapon. In response, Fulgrim drew Forgebreaker and they fought until Ferrus disarmed Fulgrim and Fulgrim pulled out the Laeran blade, decapititating Ferrus before surrending to the daemon held within the blade.

[Kol Saresk]

I believe the gun was a weapon forged for Ferrus by Vulkan.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I believe the gun was a weapon forged for Ferrus by Vulkan.

 

Correct. Vulcan had given it back after a while because he didn't like using it since it hadn't been forged by hammer & anvil or some such silliness, but accepted it again on the eve of the Drop Site.

[The Emperor's Champion]

I didn't actually think that was Fulgrim when I first looked at it, I don't know why I had it in my head that it was Lucius. :P

I believe Lucius is actually front and center in the Emperor's Children line. The guy holding the giant claymore.

 

 

Nah Lucius's hair is shorter than that. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/image...usPreHeresy.jpg

.......Hair grows.... <_<

But really, that's how Lucius is described with the huge Marine-sized claymore.

[The 13th Goat]

Im not sure if this will help but the last paragraph mentions something close to what the 13th goat said. Linky

I think Deus Ex Ferrum was after a real reference, so not Lexicanum (Edit- which even stipulates that the information in question is uncited, and therefore of even more dubious reliability).

 

Lexicanum tends to be pretty much spot on, given time to update. The referance was in the Iron Hands IA, and Perturabo getting the hammer has been part of his established lore for a long time. The 13th Black Crusade bit was in the campaign's handbook.

[The emperors chosen]

It might just be an issue of the cover artist and the author not communicating. A D-B has said before that authors don't always get the chance to talk to cover artists, so it could simply be that that happened here.

[MadDoc]

Lexicanum tends to be pretty much spot on, given time to update.

It really isn't. Some people might be happy to rely on Lexicanum, more power to them, but if somebody asks for a source I think it best to give them an actual/real reliable source rather than a wiki with a questionable track record and that even 'given time to update' still contains faulty/misleading information presented as fact.

 

Lexicanum is a handy jumping off point (its limited citations can be used to find actual sources), but it isn't, nor will it ever be, a valid source of reference in and of itself. Its a wiki.

[Ironwrought Huw]

I'll be honest, I never really liked that picture of Fulgrim and Ferrus. To me, Ferrus just looks weird. He's wielding a spanner for crying out loud... And those massive exhaust stacks too.

 

Lexicanum tends to be pretty much spot on, given time to update.

It really isn't. Some people might be happy to rely on Lexicanum, more power to them, but if somebody asks for a source I think it best to give them an actual/real reliable source rather than a wiki with a questionable track record and that even 'given time to update' still contains faulty/misleading information presented as fact.

 

Lexicanum is a handy jumping off point (its limited citations can be used to find actual sources), but it isn't, nor will it ever be, a valid source of reference in and of itself. Its a wiki.

 

Pretty much this.

AFAIK, the clan mentioned in the Lexi article isn't an official Iron Hands clan from GW or Black Library sources - IRRC only 3, Kaargul (three bolts), Sorrgol (spanner) and Vurgaan (lightning) clans have been mentioned - until the article on Lexi about Forgebreaker, I'd never read about the Avernii clan. (Added to this, Morlocks only appeared in IH fluff from the book Fulgrim).

[karden00]

I always had mixed feelings about this picture. Fulgrim looks okay to me, more or less in line with what he is supposed to look like.

But Manus just annoys me. Part of how this intellectual property can be so limited at times. Of course the primarch who is known for being a techy goes into battle with a wrench...Its silly.

Its actually one of the thing that annoys me the most about this hobby's fluff. Legions/primarchs are often (not always) portrayed exclusively with the things that they were known for, and I find that awfully limiting. EG, Guilliman, always known as a strategist, is often though of as a whimp. Just because he is not mentioned/known to be a good combatant himself.(props to D.A. and not being bound by this perception in KNF) Ferus Manus, a guy who likes building stuff and is real techy, is always thought of as a guy who cant prise himself away from that thought. But these are beings who were created to be gods of war. Beings who lived hundreds or thousands of years. Beings whose abilities and talents were assets, not things that acted to limit them.

Just because Ferus is known to be a kind of techmarine godfather, it does not disqualify him from being a proficient swordsman. Seirously, a wrench?

[Azekai]

Just because Ferus is known to be a kind of techmarine godfather, it does not disqualify him from being a proficient swordsman. Seriously, a wrench?

 

I quite agree. Five bucks says the artist went "Iron Hands are, like, machines, right? So they fight with machine-y stuff, then, right?" Hey-presto.

[Perrin]

But it does help to identify the characters in artwork. Half the posters in this thread didn't realise that it was Fulgrim and Ferrus fighting, think how many it would have been if Ferrus was drawn wearing really fancy, elegant artificer armour with a pretty winged hammer?

Thats an example by the way, i mean pretty much all artwork needs to stereotype in at least a small way for all the readers to identify the characters imo. It's not that big a deal really.

[Aegnor]

Just because Ferus is known to be a kind of techmarine godfather, it does not disqualify him from being a proficient swordsman. Seriously, a wrench?

 

I quite agree. Five bucks says the artist went "Iron Hands are, like, machines, right? So they fight with machine-y stuff, then, right?" Hey-presto.

 

Neil Roberts, who seems to be doing most of the HH covers, generally does a pretty awesome job and seems a pretty keen fan of the universe. Different folk have different mental images without being cavalier or disrespectful of the material.

[Coryphaus 101]

But it does help to identify the characters in artwork. Half the posters in this thread didn't realise that it was Fulgrim and Ferrus fighting, think how many it would have been if Ferrus was drawn wearing really fancy, elegant artificer armour with a pretty winged hammer?

Thats an example by the way, i mean pretty much all artwork needs to stereotype in at least a small way for all the readers to identify the characters imo. It's not that big a deal really.

I think most of the people that didn't realise it was Fulgrim and Ferrus didn't even realise there were people there. Well, that's what I did anyway.

[Castiel]

It's just artistic license. But I think it looks pretty cool, although not how I picture Forgebreaker.

[KJB]

I believe the gun was a weapon forged for Ferrus by Vulkan.

 

Correct. Vulcan had given it back after a while because he didn't like using it since it hadn't been forged by hammer & anvil or some such silliness, but accepted it again on the eve of the Drop Site.

 

Incorrect. It was forged by Ferrus for Vulkan... :ermm:

[Azekai]

Neil Roberts, who seems to be doing most of the HH covers, generally does a pretty awesome job and seems a pretty keen fan of the universe. Different folk have different mental images without being cavalier or disrespectful of the material.

 

I am not saying he is a bad artist, many of the HH covers are very nice; I just think that in this instance it is a lazy way to represent what the Iron Hands stand for.

[Aegnor]

Exactly. You accused him of being lazy and not caring, which I thought was wrong.

[The 13th Goat]

I am not saying he is a bad artist, many of the HH covers are very nice; I just think that in this instance it is a lazy way to represent what the Iron Hands stand for.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/d/db/Ferrus_Manus_by_John_Blanche.JPG

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/9/93/Ferrus_Manus.jpg

I think that's a rather unfair position to take. Considering as many have said he would not have been privy to the books end fight, I think he did an amazing job. For all the Iron Hands player's claiming this is a lazy, sterotypical view of Ferrus, may I point out 3 things:

 

1. At least you have a picture. Vulkan and Curze has yet to be given any sort of image, dispite a large fanbase for both Legions.
   
2. It's a sterotypical view of the Primarch BECAUSE thats how he was described; a no thrills bad ass in black armour and silver arms. What were you really expecting?
   
3. This is a back view from a distance. Any is lost or obscured.
   

 

I'd like to point out that up until Fulgrim the only image we had was John Blanche's picture in Collected Visions. Comparing the 2 images here, which would you prefer? Blanche's over the top, barely recognisable as a human let alone Primach model? Or maybe the more conservative, practical interpretation of the Gorgon?