irwit Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hi all Still checking out the GK list and coming up with some ideas. I really love the fluff and idea of assassins plus the models are fantastic ( although ill prob make my own ). Just trying to justify so many points on a couple of wounds? Vindicare just doesn't sound that deadly with only 1 shot per turn. Callidus sounds cool but deploying as deep strike means she kind of arrives and gets shot to pieces moments later, am I wrong? Any advice on these would be much appreciated as to how I can include them for rules sake as well as fluff ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The Vindicare is the best of the Bunch. He might only get one shot per round, but it can be utterly devastating. You're right about the Cally, not all that great now she can't assult from DS. The other two are so situaitonal that they're not really worth using. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Assassins are definitely worth their points if you use them right, but they definitely need to be supported by other units and integrated into the rest of your army. Send them out on their own, with no backup and no plan, and they die fast. The Vindicare's single shot does give a nice AT punch with the turbo-penetrator, but his other two fire modes are only really worth it when they're used tactically. Knocking out an HQ's invulnerable save or sniping a squad's hidden powerfist and/or killing off force multipliers models like Sanguinary Priests can be a huge benefit. The Callidus will die quickly if she deep strikes into an open area with plenty of enemy firing lanes. With scatterless deep strike, there's no reason for her to do that. It's also usually a bad idea to drop her way out in the middle of the enemy force; land her close enough to your own people that she won't be stuck alone and unsupported. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 As others have said, the vindicare is the best of the bunch. Remember, he can use the special ammo from his pistol or the sniper rifle, so don't be afraid to move to get a better shot on close targets. I've twice killed mephestion when he was hiding by moving up and around the corner. The eversor is a good counter assault or sneaky guy. He's small enough to fit in behind a rhino, and killy enough to wipe out entire squads. While I wouldn't recommend sending him in against deathstars, he can be a good use against lone or weaker assault units . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 You're right about the Cally, not all that great now she can't assult from DS. That rule just doesn't make sense at all to me. I know you get the D6 attacks on launch but not being able to get straight into combat seems like a bit of a waste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 As others have said, the vindicare is the best of the bunch. Remember, he can use the special ammo from his pistol or the sniper rifle, so don't be afraid to move to get a better shot on close targets. I've twice killed mephestion when he was hiding by moving up and around the corner. The eversor is a good counter assault or sneaky guy. He's small enough to fit in behind a rhino, and killy enough to wipe out entire squads. While I wouldn't recommend sending him in against deathstars, he can be a good use against lone or weaker assault units . Thats cool with Vindi, definitely leaning towards him if I would take one. As for Evisor, I just think for those points a unit of DCAs in their own RB would be better overall. I can believe he doesn't have infiltrate, he's an assassin! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Vindi also seems a little situational. Fair enough if you are vs a deathstar unit or other multiplier you can take the wind out the sales but vs armour i think 4d6 is a little unpredictable for the points. You just seem to get so much more out a henchmen unit for the points. Anyone taken multiple assassins? Is it even allowed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 It's 3+4d6+Rending on each of those 4d6. It's hand's down the best Armour Penetrator in the Game. And it hits on a 2+ with a reroll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Vindi also seems a little situational. Fair enough if you are vs a deathstar unit or other multiplier you can take the wind out the sales but vs armour i think 4d6 is a little unpredictable for the points. You just seem to get so much more out a henchmen unit for the points. Anyone taken multiple assassins? Is it even allowed? On average, 4d6 will give pretty good results; it's got a base 44% chance of penetrating a Land Raider, plus bonus penetration from rending for any sixes you roll. Then there's the (last I checked) unresolved "4d6" vs. "4d6+3" issue. Plus it's one of the few long-range guns in the GK list can kill heavy armor; real handy if your opponent fields a loaded Land Raider, Monolith, or something else that needs to die before it gets to within melta range. Multiple assassins are allowed, but you can't take two of the same type. Most folks wouldn't recommend it though; Assassins need supporting units, and the Elite slot has a lot of other solid choices in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I also see little point in the Eversor when you can take multiple DCA for his cost, that will do much better. Sure, you don't need an Inq to take an Eversor, but that's hardly a problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3038750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I also see little point in the Eversor when you can take multiple DCA for his cost, that will do much better. Sure, you don't need an Inq to take an Eversor, but that's hardly a problem. Sadly yeah. I loved my old Eversor, Outflanking into enemy lines and eating entire units. One time he even snagged a Leman Russ with his meltabombs, after eating the ablative barrier of Guardsmen. Sigh... OT, Vindicare is the only one I'd bother with, and only really in smaller games. In larger games, you kinda need his points for other things, and he tends to get focus fired to death in larger games (he dies pretty easily). Mine has done pretty well for me. He almost always causes a Penetrating hit; the annoyance comes from my inability to roll more than 1's or 2's for his damage. But for shutting down say a Landraider, or even just sniping transports so my Purifiers chew up the cargo with psycannons, he's been pretty useful. Oh, and yeah, sniping out unit powerfists and Priests is pretty handy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3039779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I've found my Vindicare reasonably durable when/if I include a Techmarine in my force as well, since then you can get the always nice 2+ cover save. It still leaves him vulnerable to enough massed firepower, but in my experience a 2+ cover save tends to discourage shooting, especially if you have plenty of other threats on the board for the enemy to shoot at instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3039786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Thats true, but he's a very easy KP, and the Vindicare is definitely annoying enough to my regular opponents. It's funny when he dodges krak missiles. Funnily enough, he dies most often to heavy bolter or other such anti-infantry. I don't run Tech-Marines, I kinda need my other Elite slots for Purifiers. Bolstering a ruin might become more useful in 6th, if they nerf cover saves like has been rumoured. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3039816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 In larger games, you kinda need his points for other things, and he tends to get focus fired to death in larger games (he dies pretty easily). and that is bad ? considering GK already have to be focused fired on everything because they have fort on razors and dreads it is only a bonus . on avarge you need 4-5 weapons that can ID him to be more or less sure that he dies . For chaos thats almost all oblits . for tau thats 2 units of broadsides or one unit of broadsides and one of suits . with his sniper rifle he ouranges normal guns so a first or second turn death due to be doubled taped aint likely , unless your opponent realy goes after him[but then he is not going after the more dangerouse rifle man and your GKs]. + as others said on avarge does a 17 on on tanks . have a GM without staff[like 99,99% of times] pop that fist guy before charge . a dread droped in your home base and will start charging those GK units [and you dont want to waste psycannons on hiting him] , vindicator will do him good . He is a good model . an extra rifle man is better true , but not everyone has access to dual autocannon arms . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3039836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Thats true, but he's a very easy KP, and the Vindicare is definitely annoying enough to my regular opponents. It's funny when he dodges krak missiles. Funnily enough, he dies most often to heavy bolter or other such anti-infantry. I don't run Tech-Marines, I kinda need my other Elite slots for Purifiers. Bolstering a ruin might become more useful in 6th, if they nerf cover saves like has been rumoured. I run Crowe lists fairly often, which probably explains why I'm much more willing to spend two Elite Slots on the Assassin+Techmarine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3039855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 It's 3+4d6+Rending on each of those 4d6. It's hand's down the best Armour Penetrator in the Game. And it hits on a 2+ with a reroll. @ +1 on the damage table for being AP1. Melta says wut? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3040078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Doh, missed the AP1. :tu: Vindicare > Melta. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3040118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I run Crowe lists fairly often, which probably explains why I'm much more willing to spend two Elite Slots on the Assassin+Techmarine. Braver man then me. Crowe is such a deadweight, I can't stomach losing a HQ slot on such a worthless character, when I can get cheaper Troops and a better hero (for what he does) with Coteaz. Do you take conversion beamer on the Tech-Marine when he's chillin with the Vindicare? I've done that before, worked ok. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3040261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I run Crowe lists fairly often, which probably explains why I'm much more willing to spend two Elite Slots on the Assassin+Techmarine. Braver man then me. Crowe is such a deadweight, I can't stomach losing a HQ slot on such a worthless character, when I can get cheaper Troops and a better hero (for what he does) with Coteaz. Do you take conversion beamer on the Tech-Marine when he's chillin with the Vindicare? I've done that before, worked ok. I prefer using a grenade-caddy techmarine attached to a cc-squad, but that's just me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3040472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
landoro Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 How does the Vindicare get a re-roll to hit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3040488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 How does the Vindicare get a re-roll to hit? BS 8. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250701-assassins-worth-the-cost-how-best-to-use/#findComment-3040493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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