Dusting off brothers thought lost

[Ikken]

as a person who owns a bunch of the older models i thought i would just to toss my 2 cents worth into this topic .

there are a couple of issues ,

 

1st is cost , I am not going out and spending the better part of $200 to replace my 3 older rhinos and old predator , just because GW updated the model , same goes for my def dreads and killa kanz ,although the orc crowd don't seem overly worried about this issue . One of the things i have always liked about GW is the legacy support they allow for their older models , if you are going to start saying people can't play with their older models which they paid good money for , then you will have fewer people playing the hobby . Legacy support is one of the few things i commend GW for .

 

2nd the preditor and rhinos are not that much smaller than the current models . in the case of the predator it is not hard to argue that the old model is at a serious disadvantage , as it's side sponsors are mounted so low that anything that gives it cover will at the same time block line of sight for its weapons ( a ripper swarm or a grot will block LOS for those side sponsons ) . so if you are shooting at an older predator , and the owner is claiming cover , it means he likely can't shoot back , which is not a horrible trade off .

 

3rd , this is an often over looked thing but the 2 models of rhinos and the 2 models predators are actually different models one is a mark 2 or something and the other a mark 3 or something like that . in game fluff they are contemporary models to one another . just like the half dozen different models of power armor . the empire doesn't throw something away if it is still working and they were designed to effectively never wear out .

 

if someone is seriously going to give you a hassle about using legal GW models , appease them by 1st educating them as to the 2 different models of rhinos / predators , and then build the older models into the fluff/ story of your army .

using the idea that the older mark 1 rhinos have been around longer , people playing them can easily build them into the fluff of their army by adding battle honors , and what not to them to indicate their storied past . or using them as transports for long fangs , which would work into the fluff of the long fangs being that they are the oldest space wolves , or in a mixed army where you have newer rhinos and older rhinos give your new mark 2 rhinos to the blood claws , who are newer troops , and the older rhinos to the long fangs and grey hunters . if that doesn't work find a new opponent .

[Perpetual Dawn]

Wow. I didn't realise it would spark such a heated debate. Please don't feel anything has hijacked the thread or offended in any way. I see both sides of the argument.

 

I think my view is if I ever used these guys it wouldn't be at a competitive event and even if it was if my opponent was that bothered about it I would probably bid them good day in the nicest possible way. I think if I wanted to play by the numbers I would play an internet gk list or something terrible like that, I can't imagine the fun in winning because I have used the collective knowledge of the internet to exploit the balance of the game..

 

my wolves are there to be in the face of the opponent without quarter, take the mid ground and crush anything that tries its like. If I was worried about who gets better cover I guess I would still be painting in blue ;-)

 

I do love the new models and have a soft spot for the older ones, if money and time were no object I would probably have a mixture of both gw and fw tanks.

 

Each to their own I say, but I lean to having fun over the must win. That is if I ever manage to make it to my lgs to play anyone!!

[brainwashed]

I have a similar situation at the moment. I have an old 3rd edition vindicator that i want to use at a tournament coming up but i know that there are those who will oppose it. So, i sent an email to the TO and talked to him about use of the earlier edition with converted siege shield and the like. He said that it was perfectly acceptable and if any opponents took up issue to bring the matter to his attention. However, he did point out the fact that in this case it would be a clear disadvantage to me as i had planned on hiding a TWC iron priest + cyber wolves behind and suggested i may want to consider the newer version anyway.

 

So, most gamers wont mind but then there are the few who will not like playing you and that is their loss.

 

It's funny because I feel the same way. I feel like I'm at a slightly small tactical disadvantage with my old school razorbacks. They are a little too small to hide a unit behind.

 

I can't imagine how their (slightly) smaller size is an advantage for me. Any terrain that will provide cover for my old rhino will also provide cover for a new one. Perhaps it's possible to find terrain that would obscure my older rhino an wouldn't a newer one? If that's the case the same arguement could be made for any newer model compared to it's older version.

 

Examples:

New Fenrisian Wolves compared to Goblin Wolf Rider Wolves

New plastic Terminators compared to older terminators

kneeling newer devastators compared to older metal lock knee'd devastators.

Older dreadnoughts with out a base compared to a new plastic dreadnought on the cool elevated base

 

The list could go on an on. There are pro's and con's to any of the models both old and new in game terms. To me what makes the game to rewarding is that everyone is converting and using different stuff on the table.

 

To players that disapprove of the old rhino chassis, try not to make judgments of what someone brings to the table or assume they are trying to twist the game to their advantage simply because they have an older or newer model. Now if you play the person and it's clear that they are doing this it's your choice to play that person or not, even in a tournament. But don't assume some one is gaming the system. I personally am using my old razorbacks due to history and the memories I've made with them 'back in the day' when I had more time to play the game. :)

 

Edit: typo

[Perpetual Dawn]

Examples:

New Fenrisian Wolves compared to Goblin Wolf Rider Wolves

New plastic Terminators compared to older terminators

kneeling newer devastators compared to older metal lock knee'd devastators.

Older dreadnoughts with out a base compared to a new plastic dreadnought on the cool elevated base

 

An easy fix so I didn't add it to the original post but I was going to ask what the deal was with old dreads and bases. I have the old termies as well but not sure I like their static poses. Plus all pf.

[archangel23]

I have no problem with older armor. I would use the one remaining rhino I have if I was not so afraid of it getting jacked up. I would love to field an old land raider, though. Just don't have one.

 

I do have a six man squad of second edition marines that I am converting into Space Wolves. So I have a love fo older GW models. I like to mix old and new because it fits in with the Wolves backstory. It gives you a broad look and feel to a first founding chapter. but thats my take. If you have them why not use them. I think its awesome.