BloodTzar Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hello brothers, how do you counter heavy shooting, SW army with BA ? I did try non-optimized DoA (Dante, Lib with HG,2xASM,2xSG 2xVV's 2xbikes), DS-ed all, and die horribly to the retaliation. Stupid long fangs with termie sarge can get out 7rocket shots per turn and dozen attacks when charged... On the other hand even mine SR list failed me...however it was much closer as I could win if Meph did not want to look into warp and make 3 wounds to him self with perils... Anyways, how do you counter heavy shooting SW lists, His list was some like this: Bjor(i believe this is the right name of that stupid Dread) Lib with some cover bubble and Jaws 4x8 GH with plasma+Combi plasma 2xAC Dreads 3xLong Fangs with some termies with cyclone some guys with combi plasma in drop pod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraxes Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Have you ever tried a properly kitted out VV squad, IE: power weapons and perhaps storm shields all round? If you're trying to kill a deathstar...bring one (or several) of your own to the fight. If you can, pair the VV attacks with jumping DC and drown him in target options after you've (hopefully) murdered the LF squad of doom in question. The synergy of these 2 units works great. Expensive as hell, but very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Bjorn is an extra KP or something - so he usually gets left to the rear and dies fast to LS melta squads IMO As for the rest - infiltrating scout baals can set up one flank and kill with flamestorms cause LF HATE templates (or attack bikes - which im really getting into now) and DC in a rhino fast moving can hold the GH in place while VV mop up and i would suggest a LOT of footslogging tacs - these are unusual builds but work for me. Basically overkill for the LF or tie them in combat, deal with GH 1-2 squad at a time w DC or Furioso and get your flanks secured with fast moving weapons platforms (bikes have no AV and T4(5) with a turboboost which is perfect against ML) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperhavens Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Take out those LF's as quick as possible, a deep striking Assault Squad will force him to change his plan real quick. If you can get a Furioso Dread into combat with one of those GH squads you can really do some damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 You don't need gimmicks to deal with Wolves. A properly built jumper or mech army can take them just fine. They are a good army, but are far more static than we are, and their infantry is far less resilient on foot; use that to your advantage. Either lots of jumpers supported by Devastators, or lots of razorbacks supported by autolas preds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvious Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Perhaps some sternguard in a drop pod and you can rapid yur AP3 round into them. If he has that many units of long fangs, I doubt he can get them all into cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Bloodtzar, you need to consider something with a lot of forward pressure. Something fast, and hard-hitting. Id almost definitely include a squad of attack bikes or 2, and then a squad of Vanvets. Immediately once the bikes have turboed, they become a high priority for the rhino born squads (i assume they're in rhino's not just walking). If they're walking, then dont stress about the bikes- and rather go for a shooty/toasty baal combo- may come in handy. Mephiston will help kick this lists head in something fierce too. DC are great in a rhino too to fly up and put added pressure on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'd be worried about assaulty Wolves, not the shooty ones. ^_^ If the GH are on foot, it shouldn't be a problem to take them out in CC, as it shouldn't be a problem to take anything of this list out in CC. To get there, it is extremely important to make use of cover, be it buildings or your own tanks with popped smoke. Use the environment as long as you can, and if you must leave cover in order to advance, create new cover with your tanks. I'd advise an assaulty list, probably even hybrid, a good mix from jumpers and tanks. VV are very nice against longfangs, and while I usually don't field Flamecannon Baals, in this scenario they'd be handy to get rid of squads in cover. As said by the other posters, DC can be used to a very satisfying effect when properly supported, and if they have cover and no TLoS(shouldn't be too hard if your friend's army is all set up in terrain such as buildings or so) they increase their chance of survival drastically. If you trouble with Rocket launchers, try some Sanguinary Guard. As you are playing mostly against infantry, these guys can really mess up your opponent's day. They are as fast as your other troops, but actually have an armour save against missile launchers. Always add a Sanguinary Priest. I'd reserve everything, though. Don't let that one squad with combi plasma(-and what else) ruin your plans. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I did try non-optimized DoA (Dante, Lib with HG,2xASM,2xSG 2xVV's 2xbikes), DS-ed all, and die horribly to the retaliation. Stupid long fangs with termie sarge can get out 7rocket shots per turn and dozen attacks when charged... Playing an optimized list would be a start :) The most important thing to do when facing a shooty but relatively stationary list like this with DoA is to limit the amount of fire your opponent is able point your way. With a lot of his support tied up in his Long fangs it shouldn't be too hard to make sure that you use positioning. terrain, your own 2+ troops, his units or units tangeled up in close combat to get you a cover save or block LoS against the majority of those rockets. Don't deep strike in front of them just to fire off a few melta shots into cover, that's not going to end well for you. It's difficult to say without seeing the battle but I'm guessing that you lost because you weren't aggressive enough, and that you went for the wrong targets initially. Let's take another list as an example, mechanized IG. More shooty and more mobile than the wolves, the key difference is that just about any of our units can dominate his in close combat, even at reduced strength. Our top priority against these kind of list is generally anything that can take large chunks out of our squads at once and ignore FnP, the big blasts with low AP. Get rid of those as quickly as possible, or limit their effectiveness by using his other units as cover. When they are dealt with you can start eating through his other units, he won't be able to kill you off quickly enough. With space wolves the situation is not the same as even his basic troops are quite capable in CC, more so than ours thanks to a lot of unit upgrades and lots of attacks. The worst thing you can do if you want to win is to pick a fair fight ^_^ , so your primary focus usually isn't those long fangs, it's to break his core units before yours take have taken too much damage. If you go for the long fangs too early chances are that you will get picked apart by his shooting and counter assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 First of all, I did use the non-opt build, as that was another build that I was carrying with me. Moreover I did use all fast elements I could, Van vets charged fangs to tie them up, lib with uber HG (ss+th+lc, pw's) dropped so he could give cover to everyone, than the rest dropped so they could make huge fnp bubble. However his lucky saves, and mine non lucky cover saves made me lose the game in on turn of enemy shooting I believe. Bjorns PC hurts a lot... On the other hand, with my SR list I was aggressive enough. Perhaps made some mistakes however could not help that talon-furiouso had eat a squad way too early and then got shot to pieces, if he had fists he could stay locked until next A-P. Moreover sq. of termies locked in cc with Bjorn as they could not get through his av 13 ... (2 hammers died to lucky bolters...even with Fnp) Lastly, this guy is very good player, so I think that played in his favor too, as he knew exactly what he is doing...at the end he advised me to opt the DoA list, and just run them through the board instead of DS. Then, to the SR list, to drop Meph and get some other dread or some... I don’t know... quite skeptic now about my SR list...Not even mentioning DoA, as I never liked that much... ~BT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Not even mentioning DoA, as I never liked that much... Running across the board is almost never preferable to DS. DoA is difficult to play correctly and you are not going to win at first facing an experienced player when you don't have much experience with it. The most common pitfalls are: Overestimating how much damage your meltaguns can do on the drop. Overestimating how good/useful VV are. Relying on 'shield' to keep you alive. Underestimating how important how it is to get the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well, i do not want to argue about pros and cons with DoA, I am just asking bout the way how to deal with heavy shooting SW. They are very strong in CC compared to other shooty lists/armies (thanks to counter charge and BP+CCW on heavy weapon teams) ... Moreover, thank you so far for advices ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well, i do not want to argue about pros and cons with DoA, I am just asking bout the way how to deal with heavy shooting SW. They are very strong in CC compared to other shooty lists/armies (thanks to counter charge and BP+CCW on heavy weapon teams) ... Moreover, thank you so far for advices ... I regret to inform you that you have been cheated. Yes, every Long Fang comes with a Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon. However, every Long Fang (apart from the Pack Leader) must replace his Bolt Pistol with a Heavy Weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Oh, I knew there is something wrong, with Heavy weapon team being able to massacre VV's ... but I thought it’s the way SW 'dex is made ... I should really start looking into codex’s... Anyways, thank you for info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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