alloyslayer Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I've been reading about castellan Crowe recently and I've got a few questions about him 1 does his cleansing flame count as rending? 2 does blade shield let you re roll invulnerable saves as well as armour saves? 3 if I charge and pass the psychic test for heroic sacrifice can I use titans herald rule to re roll the hit? Thanks in advance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I believe that "YES" is the right answer to all of those... 1: New FAQ says that Cleansing Flame counts as close combat so his Master Swordsman rule affects it and makes his flames rending. 2: Blade Shield says to reroll all saves, it does not specify which ones 3: As it says that he is allowed to make a single attack, I would imagine that Titan's Herald would come into play and give you the reroll to hit but I'm not sure about that one...But yes, I believe it should work like that, only if you charged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3040357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yes to all! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3040403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor =D= Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 +1; Yes to all of the above. =]D[= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3040832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 is at work with no dex. but how is CF rending? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Like Murcielago pointed out a couple posts ago, Cleansing Flame counts as a close combat attack, and all of Crowe's cc attacks are rending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 those attacks are NOT being made by crowe, they are being made by CF. psychic powers unless specifically stated are not rending. what i just got from GW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 And the attacks are not being made by Crowe in CC, they're being made by The Blade Antwyr... Seriously, who's using the Power? Who suffers the Perils? Crowe. It's his power, his use, his attack in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 go back to pre FAW SW....thunderhammers on twolves were not rending with out the need for a FAW on that. Crowe is not making any actual attacks with CF. He is not swinging his blade at all for that. it is a power that is used before he even attacks, before the enemy actually attacks. before anyone swings a weapon, this power is being used. You can lawyer all you want about it, CROWE HIMSELF is not hitting these models. the POWER is. Just because he is using it means bubkis. Does CF say that it is rending? no. Because CF is used in CC, and causes wounds it has to count towards resolution. But Crowe himself is not causing the wounds, this power is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 go back to pre FAW SW....thunderhammers on twolves were not rending with out the need for a FAW on that. Crowe is not making any actual attacks with CF. He is not swinging his blade at all for that. it is a power that is used before he even attacks, before the enemy actually attacks. before anyone swings a weapon, this power is being used. You can lawyer all you want about it, CROWE HIMSELF is not hitting these models. the POWER is. Just because he is using it means bubkis. Does CF say that it is rending? no. Because CF is used in CC, and causes wounds it has to count towards resolution. But Crowe himself is not causing the wounds, this power is. Which is all very nice but 100% irrelevant. The FAQ clearly states that Cleansing Flame is a close combat attack. All of Crowe's cc attacks rend on a 4+. End of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Crowe is not making any CC attacks with CF. end of line. Play and be wrong. Rage at me being right. Thanks for playing. YOu are the weakest link, good by. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Crowe is not making any CC attacks with CF. end of line. Play and be wrong. Rage at me being right. Thanks for playing. YOu are the weakest link, good by. You're not right and I'm not raging. Check the FAQ and come back with an argument or just accept that you're wrong (which you are). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Show me where it says in CF that Crowe is making any attacks? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Don't need to. It's clearly spelt out in the FAQ: Q: Is Cleansing Flame a shooting attack or a close combat attack? (p31) A: A close combat attack. Therefore when Crowe casts CF he is making a close combat attack and his own special rule means that it rends on a 4+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Is Crowe makign those attacks, or are they coming from CF? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Unless psychic powers count as separate models now, the attack came from Crowe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 This is painful to watch. Give it up Toasterfree, your 'argument' has no legs. The distinction that you're driving at, while admittedly logical, doesn't exist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 the attacks do NOT come from Crowe though. he is not making any actual attacks. he is not using his WS or BS to make these. They are close combat attacks because they count for resolution, but are not made from weapons at all. HENCE Crowe not making the attacks would not benefit from the rending aspect of the special rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Again, you're driving towards a distinction that doesn't exist. It doesn't matter that the attacks are from a psychic power; they are close-combat attacks made by Crowe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 where is CF does it say that crowe is making these attacks? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 He casts the power. The power is a close combat attack. Ergo, he is making a close combat attack. Please, point out anything in the rules that says psychic power count as models that make their own separate close combat attacks, since that seems to be what you're arguing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Now you're just being ridiculous. Cleansing Flame is a close-combat attack Crowe can use Cleansing Flame Crowe's close-combat attacks rend on a 4+ Cleansing Flame rends on a 4+ when used by Crowe This is exactly the kind of obviousness that the phrase 'res ipsa loquitur' was coined for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 assume=you making an cuss: out of you and me. i am not saying that a psychic power is a seprate model. Does Crowe USE A WEAPON AT ALL when using CF? Simple anwer is no. Crowe is NOT making any attacks. So he is using a power, but that is not Crowe making attacks, that is Crowe using a psychic power. His sword we will not argue over since he is making attacks. but CF is NOT an attack, it is a psychic power. *stands and awaits applause* Now you're just being ridiculous. Cleansing Flame is a close-combat attack Crowe can use Cleansing Flame Crowe's close-combat attacks rend on a 4+ Cleansing Flame rends on a 4+ when used by Crowe This is exactly the kind of obviousness that the phrase 'res ipsa loquitur' was coined for. CF is not a weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Cleansing Flame is a close combat attack. Says so in plain English in the FAQ. You can say it's not as much as you want, but GW disagrees. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 GW told me its not. What. CF is not a weapon attack. Correct me if I am wrong, but unless a psychic power states that it rends it doesnt rend. when i get home I will post the rules, in full. but simply since Crowe is not attacking with CF they do not benefit from that. They are not attacks he is making, they are from CF. The power not crowe. Again with the twolf example, relevant and true. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250834-couple-of-questions-about-crowe/#findComment-3041214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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