Couple of questions about Crowe

[Gentlemanloser]

??

 

CF works the same for all the units using it...

 

Crowe, and Crowe alone, has a special rule (not a USR) that allows all the attacks he makes in Close Combat, from any source rend, and rend on a 4+.

 

Ah, now you get onto the wording of Crowes special rule.

 

In which case, I'll point you to Sniper Rifles, and Posioned Close Combat Weapons.

 

Next! :P

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Right, so Crowe using a psychic power that is a close-combat attack isn't him making a close-combat attack.

 

Brilliant.

[Toasterfree]

CF works the same for all the units using it

so NFW purifiers ignore armor with this?

[Toasterfree]

Right, so Crowe using a psychic power that is a close-combat attack isn't him making a close-combat attack.

 

Brilliant.

 

is anyone doing any actual assault with CF? where are the hits being generated from CF? who is hitting CF or the model using it? if its the model using it, the a purifier knight of the flamer with a NFW ignores armor as well, and for that matter if he was armed with a hammer, it would wound on a 2+.

 

Non tua collyridam et comedes etiam

[Gentlemanloser]

so NFW purifiers ignore armor with this?

 

Why would it?

 

Do Purifiers have a special rules that states all thier Close Combat Attacks, regardless of source, ignore armour?

 

No. They don't.

 

The Ignore Armour is a property of the *weapon* used, not a special rule of the unit.

 

is anyone doing any actual assault with CF?

 

What do you mean by that?

 

CF can only be used int he Assault Phase and only effects units you are locking in combat with.

 

who is hitting CF or the model using it?

 

Next logical step here.

 

It's not the Purifier hitting, it's the NFW! So it uses the NFW Strength and not the Purifier Strength! What's the Strength of a NFW?

 

Uh oh...

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

CF works the same for all the units using it

so NFW purifiers ignore armor with this?

 

Of course they don't. You keep banging on this and it is totally nonsensical. NFWs ignore armour because the rule says that attacks made with them ignore armour. Cleansing Flame, when used by Crowe, rends because the rule says that all his close-combat attacks rend and Cleansing Flame is a close-combat attack.

 

 

Right, so Crowe using a psychic power that is a close-combat attack isn't him making a close-combat attack.

 

Brilliant.

 

is anyone doing any actual assault with CF? where are the hits being generated from CF? who is hitting CF or the model using it? if its the model using it, the a purifier knight of the flamer with a NFW ignores armor as well, and for that matter if he was armed with a hammer, it would wound on a 2+.

 

Non tua collyridam et comedes etiam

 

It simply does not matter how much you try and wriggle; Cleansing Flame is a close-combat attack and Crowe's close-combat attacks rend on a 4+. You cannot work around that, it is an absolute bar to everything you are trying to say.

 

And if you must post Latin, do spell things right my love. No-one is trying to have their cake and eat it, you simply suffer from an almost complete misunderstanding of the interaction between Crowe, CF, Purifiers and NFWs.

[Gentlemanloser]

There is one sticking point to the verbiage of Crowes rule. And the only one.

 

Crowes rules states the "To-Wound" roll rends on a 4+.

 

Some like to argue that CF doesn't have a "To-Wound" roll, as that's a Strength versus Toughness roll.

 

In which case I refer back to Sniper Rifles and Poisoned CCWs. ;)

[*Furyou Miko]

Maybe they just need it laid out as a hierarchy?

 

Crowe

Crowe

Rules

Master Swordsman, Preferred Enemy

WeaponsNon-weapon attacks

Anthill sword

(Furious Charge, Litanies of Fury)(Inherits Master Swordsman, Inherits Preferred Enemy)

Cleaning Flame

(Hits all models, Wounds on 4+)(Inherits Master Swordsman, Inherits Preferred Enemy)

Storm Bolter (Inherits nothing)N/A

 

Purifiers

Purifier Rules

Preferred Enemy

WeaponsNon-weapon attacks

NFW(Power Weapon, Force Weapon)(Inherits Preferred Enemy)Cleaning Flame(Hits all models, Wounds on 4+)(Inherits Preferred Enemy)

Storm Bolter (Inherits nothing)N/A

 

Preferred Enemy included for completeness / comparison's sake. Preferred Enemy doesn't help Cleaning Flame because it doesn't roll to hit, but the rule still applies because it's a close-combat attack made by a model with the rule.

 

gah. >< Can someone please fix my formatting? I suck at tables in bb.

[alloyslayer]

??

 

CF works the same for all the units using it...

 

Crowe, and Crowe alone, has a special rule (not a USR) that allows all the attacks he makes in Close Combat, from any source rend, and rend on a 4+.

 

Gentlemanloser has it 100% right in my opinion, that's a pretty much cut and dry answer

[Toasterfree]

There is one sticking point to the verbiage of Crowes rule. And the only one.

 

Crowes rules states the "To-Wound" roll rends on a 4+.

 

Some like to argue that CF doesn't have a "To-Wound" roll, as that's a Strength versus Toughness roll.

 

In which case I refer back to Sniper Rifles and Poisoned CCWs. ;)

both of which require that you hit.

 

??

 

CF works the same for all the units using it...

 

Crowe, and Crowe alone, has a special rule (not a USR) that allows all the attacks he makes in Close Combat, from any source rend, and rend on a 4+.

 

Gentlemanloser has it 100% right in my opinion, that's a pretty much cut and dry answer

where in his rule does it say SPECIFICALY from any source?

 

It's not the Purifier hitting, it's the NFW!

whats the WS of the NFW? it doesnt have one so it cant hit. so the purifier has to hit with it. Ergo if CF is a CC attack, and it carries the CC attack, the knight using it would carry over its properties of hitting.

Ergo, a knight with the DH would be s8 and ignore armor saves. ergo, CF SHOULD wound on a 2+, but since the rule for CF says it doesnt, it would still ignor armor saves.

 

I digress yet again, CF does NOT cause hits. it causes WOUNDS. and it does not say the CASTER causes the wounds, its says that CF causes the wounds. Verbage for this to work is missing....no where, and i repeat NOWHERE in CF does it cay that the CASTER of the power causes the wounds. it MUST say this for it to work in the way that you want it to. Why am I a broken record, because I am right. Why am I right? superior understanding of how verbs work maybe. who knows. for the sake of my sanity PLEASE go back and re-read rules and look for important verbs.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

You're going to throw your back out stretching like that, matey.

[number6]

I am closing this topic due to general nastiness and bad attitudes.

 

The lot of you should be ashamed. There's more than a few bad actors here. ;)