Jump packs in a SW army

[Forgotten Lyrics]

Skyclaws are Bloodclaws so they can take Wolfguard Pack Leaders.

 

Or are you trying to say they are not? If that's the case, you don't need to take any Wolfguard or ICs with them.

 

Because I'm holding my codex right in front of me, and for the Headstrong and Berserk Charge special rules on page 25, it only says BLOOD CLAWS! It does not say Sky Claws or Swift Claw Bikers. So if Skyclaws and Swiftclaws are not Blood Claws, they possess a special rule that they cannot use, just like Canis Wolfborn and his rending special rule.

 

Four years and it has not shown up in the errata or faq.

 

Also I like Skyclaws because they can take Mark of the Wulfen, and regular Blood Claws lack that option. And I need a use for those 2 squads of metal Vanguard Veterans I bought and converted the hell out of.

[Wulfebane]

Skyclaws and swiftclaws are indeed Bloodclaws as far as stats and fluff are concerned, but where Bloodclaws are TROOPS, the other two are FAST ATTACK, as well as jump infantry and bike squadrons, respectfully, instead of just infantry.

 

Also, regardless of what the Bloodclaws special rules saying they're such, we're all referring to the rules on wg packleaders (p. 86) which includes BC and swiftclaws, but specifically exclude skyclaws. The BC special rules still apply because it states in their descriptions that they ARE BCs, just made to serve a different role.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

As a Logan Wing player myself, I have never thought to try putting jumpers onto my wolf guard. Look at it this way:

TDAWG 33 points bare bones, PAWG with Jumper 43 points bare bones

TDAWG 2+5+ bare bones, PAWG 3+/___

TDAWG have access to long range weapons, PAWG not so much

TDAWG 6" movement, PAWG with Jumper 12"

 

If you are into maximizing units for potential and efficiency you didn't need me to list out those few obvious points for and against the use of jumpers on your WG. You could do it and create a unit to fill a role in your Logan Wing, but the unit would end up costing you far more points that a pack of TDAWG or regular PAWG. And points are the one thing our style of armies need due to the high cost of, er, everything.

 

End of Line

[Forgotten Lyrics]

Skyclaws and swiftclaws are indeed Bloodclaws as far as stats and fluff are concerned, but where Bloodclaws are TROOPS, the other two are FAST ATTACK, as well as jump infantry and bike squadrons, respectfully, instead of just infantry.

 

Also, regardless of what the Bloodclaws special rules saying they're such, we're all referring to the rules on wg packleaders (p. 86) which includes BC and swiftclaws, but specifically exclude skyclaws. The BC special rules still apply because it states in their descriptions that they ARE BCs, just made to serve a different role.

 

 

Ok, so they count as Blood Claws for one special rule, but not Blood Claws for another special rule?

 

P.25

"Headstrong: ... If a pack of Blood Claws is within 6" of an enemy model.. "

A Skyclaw Assault Pack is not a Blood Claws Pack.

 

In the Warriors of the Fang entry it does say that they were taken from Blood Claw Packs. It also says they are completely separate units from Blood Claws. The codex gets pretty messy, every new Space Wolf is a Blood Claw, and there are also squads called Blood Claws.

 

The Wolf Guard rule says "...assign to lead a different pack from the following list: Blood Claws, Swiftclaw Bike Packs, Grey Hunters..."

 

Now the army list entries for the packs are not the same as in the Wolfguard special rule. The entries for those squads are Blood Claws Pack and Swiftclaw Biker Packs.

 

So are Skyclaws a pack of Blood Claws or not?

Are we supposed to go by RAW rules or the spirit of the rules?

Can Njal teach other terminators how to use a bolt pistol?

 

The only definite answer is that the codex is a complete mess.

[Roberto982]

If you look under the skyclaw entry their special rules specifically state 'berserk charge' and 'headstrong' just like blood claws

[Forgotten Lyrics]

If you look under the skyclaw entry their special rules specifically state 'berserk charge' and 'headstrong' just like blood claws

 

 

And it also tells you to check page 25 for those rules. And when you look at those rules it says they effect Blood Claws. It doesn't say Blood Claws and Skyclaws and Swiftclaw bikers. They have a rule they can't use by RAW. Just like Arjac Rockfist and his stubborn rule (while any of his squad mates are alive), or Lukas' Pelt of the Doppegrangel, or Canis Wolfborn's rending, or Njal's Lord of Tempests if you aren't going first.

 

All they need to do is add Swiftclaws and Skyclaws to the Berserk charge and Headstrong rules in an errata, or say that they count as Blood Claws, but it has been 4 years. It's :cussed up.

[Auretious Taak]

back on topic - WG w/JP's are points inefficient, to make them survivable or to pack a punch, they become rediculously expensive fast.

 

But this is where people look at Sky Claws and then make these comparisons to other codicies and always, Always, ALWAYS look at the unit in terms of damage potential. Me, Skyclaws run naked, a unit of 10 is a mere 180pts, that's 180pts of 12" JP'ing Bubble Wrap for your vehicle line as you advance up the board or to bubble wrap key units in your battle line. It's not an expensive unit and is under-rated because people look at it purely in terms of damage it has to do. You DON'T need toa ttacha Wolf Priest to the unit, because not every unit needs to be dedicated to being able tor eliably do damage, it's like the diea of suicide melta, except it's dedicated bubble wrap.

[Stormshadow]

As a Logan Wing player myself, I have never thought to try putting jumpers onto my wolf guard. Look at it this way:

TDAWG 33 points bare bones, PAWG with Jumper 43 points bare bones

TDAWG 2+5+ bare bones, PAWG 3+/___

TDAWG have access to long range weapons, PAWG not so much

TDAWG 6" movement, PAWG with Jumper 12"

 

If you are into maximizing units for potential and efficiency you didn't need me to list out those few obvious points for and against the use of jumpers on your WG. You could do it and create a unit to fill a role in your Logan Wing, but the unit would end up costing you far more points that a pack of TDAWG or regular PAWG. And points are the one thing our style of armies need due to the high cost of, er, everything.

 

End of Line

 

God Point.

 

The way I see it though is that the terminator wolf guards need to be in a five man squads and have a Drop pod ore Land Raider. They can footslog but then they need a cyclone or a Rune Priest with LL so they can reach out and touch someone. That unit will be good, they can take a hit and pack a punch. And with Logan they will also be scoring (I taka at least two terminator squads in my Logan armies), but they will also cost over 200pts.

 

If you take one wolf guard with a jump pack and a combi melta / melta bomb in a Logan army, you will have one very expensive wolf guard and an easy kill point. But he can deep strike without having to buy a pod, move 12 without a transport, hide behind almost any terrain piece, hold the home objective, steal the way of objective, drop down and take out a vehicle, or just stand there and die, syphoning of attacks from other parts of your army. Is it worth it though? That’s why I made this thread :).

[Auretious Taak]

If you take one wolf guard with a jump pack and a combi melta / melta bomb in a Logan army, you will have one very expensive wolf guard and an easy kill point. But he can deep strike without having to buy a pod, move 12 without a transport, hide behind almost any terrain piece, hold the home objective, steal the way of objective, drop down and take out a vehicle, or just stand there and die, syphoning of attacks from other parts of your army. Is it worth it though? That’s why I made this thread :cry:.

 

No.

 

Wolf Guard can be assigned to other units, that's their strength. TDA WG can be broken off to LF's to allow for wounds allocation and keeping the fire support around for longer. The CML WG go and join a GH unit so you have a home scoring unit that is mobile fire support or you pod them in and have mobile kraks chipping into the side armour of your enemy and being a nuisance that needs to be dealt with. A single WG with JP+CbMelta and MB's is 53 points, you need at least 3 melta shots to kill a vehicle, lets compare:

 

3 WG, JP, CbMelta - 159pts

 

Vs

 

3 WG, CbMelta, Drop Pod - 104pts

 

55points is a lot of points you can spend myuch more effectively elsewhere,a nd the drop pod brings in an Av 12 vehicle that the enemy needs to deal with and is useful for board control and Blocking loS as well, it is also more accurate at DS'ing then the JP WG are.

 

In both cases, you'd actually include the other 2 WG to unlock the heavy weapon TDA guy and assign them both off to other units, that's a key point to remember when looking at the units, always get that CML or Assault cannon if you roll that way, as it allows for mobile fire support in the army (it's why you don't pack the mobile CML in with the static LF's, it's a negative multiplier in terms of already got HW's there but now that mobile threat is static and in a single basket not adding to another unit to saturate the field with ML's and to also unlock the ability to hit a 3rd target as opposed to maximum 2).

 

experiment if you need to, heck you can still rock a Drop Pod and pod it in later on and use the WG w/JP's to support melta drop pod based drops on the first and second turn, but it's over priced for the same effect and a suicide unit to boot.

[Stormshadow]

I actually play tested a lone WG with jump pack yesterday.

 

First battle VS Eldar. The WG stood behind a rock for 3 turns and then he jumped and ran for two turns and tock an objective. The game carried on to turn 7 though and he didn’t survive until then (lucky bright lans :’( )

 

Second battle was against Draigo wing. This was a kill point mission. I got my opponent to waist 4 Psycannons and 6 storm bolters to take him out. Almost allowing me to wipe the GK in the proses, but Draigo just wouldn’t die :P.