Termies

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Well. . . . Reapers don't really cover down on plasma. Plasma isn't there to kill tanks; that's what the meltas are for. Plasma's primary purpose is to butcher Space Marines. It's not the S7, its the AP2 that matters -- no armor saves and no FNP. Reapers are there to do as Rifleman Dreads do, ie kill Rhinos at a distance.

 

Oddly enough when you said that, I realized that when I take plasma its the S7, longer range, and the two (potential) shots that sell me, not the AP2. AP2 is nice but common cover and/or inv saves make it less reliable whereas wounding almost anything on a 2+ is something I can trust. The FnP cancelling is a big bonus though, you are very right about that. Luckily you can sometimes get the same benefit from S7 if the target is T3 (e.g. dark eldar).

 

That is just my view on it though.

 

 

Fair enough. I load my IH with plasma because the metagame is so Marine-dominant, and the easiest way to kill Marines is with plasma weapons. The S7 is good, sure, don't get me wrong; I've down Stormravens with a MOTF's plasma cutter before, and I love it. But the AP2 is what makes plasma worth its points. I tackle the Invul saves with Null Zone (not applicable in this thread, I know, but worth mentioning given the context of the discussion) and for cover, well, my enemy saving on 4+ instead of 3+ is better for me.

[Verbal Underbelly]

Good thread! Every one seems to have lot's of technical input.

 

But what about characterful uses for your chaos terminators. They look AWESOME. Don't they? That's the reason we play chaos after all - it's the fact we're the black mirror to the Imperium. Dark, evil and sooooo coooool. Yeah?

 

I'd like some terminators to go with my Typhus model and would run them thus:

 

Typhus

1 guy with combi melta and chain fist

1 guy with heavy flamer and power fist

2 guys with combi bolters and power weapons

 

If the points allowed...

 

1 other guy with twin lightning claws and championed up.

 

I reckon I'd probably deep strike them so i don't have to convert a Land Raider which would take too long for me. I've had to convert all my Nurgle tanks and it's taken fricking ages.

 

:P

[totgeboren]

Generally, from what we have heard, the best use of Terminators is as small 'suicide' squads with combi-weapons. At first glance, this doesn't sound very in-character, and I think the reason for this is just the name. 'Suicide squad'.

 

However, if we look at what task they are given, it is to take out any enemy armour, monsters or heavy weapon emplacements that the rest of the army would otherwise struggle with. Our Terminators are the only ones capable of doing this, thanks to being Terminators. They are to Chaos Marines what Stormtroopers are to Guardsman (okok, many think Stormtroopers are overcosted, but that is not the point. I'm talking tactics avalible).

I have had many battles where things looked grim until one or two small units of termies showed up and took out the most threatening enemy vehicles, thus enabling me to win instead of lose.

 

I think that is quite elite. I also sometimes use a squad of 5-6 termies with a mix of gear and a heavy flamer, lead by a Termi lord whom I tend to deep strike. As icons are not in short supply in my CSM force, I have yet to suffer a deep strike mishap. I will always remember one battle where they took out 2 broods of termagants, one brood of hormagaunts, one brood of gargoyles, one Carnifex, a Harpy and a Tervigon, with three models left standing.

 

They can kick ass, especially with a heavy flamer and some luck in when they get in and out of close combat.

 

Oh, and I must also point out that 6:ed is like two months away. I have been playing the leaked playtest version (which may or may not be fake) exclusively as of late, and those rules seem to be made with the idea that one should always have a chance to react to an enemy presence. In those rules, it's harder to deep strike close to enemy units without taking casualties yourself, meaning the role of terminators in the CSM force is not so clear-cut. Even if the final 6:ed rules are different, they will also be different from the 5:ed rules, meaning whatever we agree upon here will not be valid in a few weeks. And on top of that, we have the new CSM codex coming in close to 6:ed too.

That is, play with the models you like, the rules will change soonish anyway, whichever way you look at it.

[omgitsduane]

So did anyone come up with some definitive answers for what to do with termies? I am a big fan of the dreaded termicide squads, but more for the fact that against stuff like orks or guard, 3 terminators suddenly in your lines x however many you rolled in that turn can be very very very scary. I know from playing guard myself it can take a whole table of shooting to down just 3 terminators, and knowing next turn they will be destroying ranks of infantry if left unchecked, they are still good beyond the initial strike I believe.

[the jeske]

only against good armies after the initial strike they are just a target that will die . it takes huge luck for them to survive.

[HJL]

I play deathwing and i can say that three termies are easy prey to anything. They work in large numbers against inexperienced foes but generaly without storm shields and cyclones they are poor.

 

Having said that im going to get some because they look awesome....

[VIIILegionaire.]

Well boys, we have 6th, how should we used our Terminator clad troops to defeat the rest of the galaxy now? Should we be concerned with sally re-rolls on snap fires with meltas? How about overwatch? What new considerations should we take we sizing up our foes?

[HJL]

considering the lack of ap2 in a lot of armies in close combat i think that lightning claw terminators got a big boost. they do look a lot better in this edition.

[Brother Ambroz]

A pure unit of LC termies though will run into problems with 2+ saves. I think it'd be wisest to mix and match.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

True statement. I was thinking a champ with claws, two or three power/chain fist, and one or two power swords or mauls. Tack on two each combi-meltas and -plasmas for shooting.

[Excessus]

I would rather take power axes than power fists though...either go chainfist or don't bother with it, axes are much much cheaper and still enough to punch a hole in enemy termies anyway...

 

LC champ and some axes/mauls and one chainfist, HF and combi-meltas, that's where I'll be...

 

...unfortunately, new edition or not, we still lack a viable delivery method for them to be absolutely ok...

[Kristoff]

Really? T6 Bikers aren't viable? Land Raiders aren't viable?

 

Perfect? Nope, but then name something in this game is. But they are some fun possibilities to look into.

[Excessus]

Land Raiders still don't have all the bells and whistles as loyalist ones have. Our bikers are expensive(especially with the IoN, which will be sniped as soon as possible) and our termies don't have anti-plasma shields on 3++.

[Bearingtheword]

I had been running my Lord in TDA with an LC and combi-melta combo, now I'm wondering if I should make that LC into a Daemon Wep and maybe take the MoK for the extra dice for the number of attacks rolled? Any thoughts? Pros and cons?

 

I'm still gonna withhold judgement on the hull point thing til I get a few games under my belt... I am liking the extra "flat out" movement we get now, as my problem has always been getting across the board in a timely manner when playing short edge to short edge games. That might just fix that for me. And the relentless fix is going to be nice paired wiht the survivability boost our termies got.

 

~BtW

[Excessus]

Hmm, interesting thought...a whole squad of termie champs can all make precision strikes, hehe...extreme sniping! :)

[Hashulaman]

I'm rather annoyed now, my termies have a mix of Mauls and Axes so I need to do some converting I'd rather not do for purposes of my OCD and WYSIWYG

[Bearingtheword]

Hmm, interesting thought...a whole squad of termie champs can all make precision strikes, hehe...extreme sniping! :)

 

"You got some esplainin to do....." :lol:

 

 

 

~BtW

[Sception]

I'm rather annoyed now, my termies have a mix of Mauls and Axes so I need to do some converting I'd rather not do for purposes of my OCD and WYSIWYG

 

I'd strongly recommend holding off until the new codex is out. You don't want to end up having to re-reconvert your squad if the new book changes their ideal configuration yet again. I've got a mix of swords, mauls, axes, fists, and chainfists myself - at least two of each, not counting chainfist and twin claw champs. I'm just going to run them as is until the new codex hits. What if the different kinds of power weapons each get their own points costs? What if the new book gives chaos terminators new unique weapon options that suddenly become favorite choices (fear the mighty power sword-chucks!). There's just no point messing with them now.

[Brother Ambroz]

Could even get TH/SS options..... :lol: wishful thinking most likely.

[*Furyou Miko]

Probably not as wishful as my hoping for the return of chosen terminator sorcerers. >>

[Sception]

One of the relatively consistent rumors is the return of some brand of cult terminators as well, which are all the more likely to have particular equipment options worth considering. Seriously, it's just too soon to be reconverting guys for game purposes. Mauls & axes aren't that bad, just run with them till we're sure what's what.

[Urauloth]

Yeah, definitely hold off on converting (and especially reconverting) until we see what's in the new codex. If you're building new terminators, though, now's a good time to magnetise them.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

After the chaos (the bad sort) with my kitbash termies, plus the idea of doing a squad of thousand terminators in tartoros armour is so nice ^_^

What do people think would be the best setup? I'm thinking heavy flamer and combi plasmas/meltas with power/chain fists, in a force that will mostly be several large (10+) squads of thousand sons, with a couple of supporting predators and a havok squad.

EDIT: In bigger games I would take it up to 10 men, and posibly get either a second 3/5 man termi squad or a contemptor or a dread.

[*Furyou Miko]

Well (bearing in mind that this is all adjusted for S3 characters, but should scale up equally on all counts);

 

sword: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 5's (1/3) * AP3 = .6667 "wounds" (or 4/6 = 12/18)

mace: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 3's (4/6) * 3+ armor save (1/3)= .4444 "wounds" (or 8/18)

axe: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 4's (1/2) * AP2 = 1 wound (or 18/18) but strikes last!

 

Now let's look against GEq:

 

sword: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 4's (1/2) * AP3 = 1 wound (or 18/18)

mace: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 2's (5/6) * AP4 = 1.6667 wound (or 10/6 = 30/18)

axe: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 3's (4/6) * AP2 = 1.3333 wound (or 8/6 = 24/18) but strikes last!

 

Vs: Terminator armor:

 

sword: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 5's (1/3) * 2+ save (1/6) = .1111 wound (or 2/18)

mace: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 3's (4/6) * 2+ save (1/6) = .2222 wound (or 8/36 = 4/18)

axe: 4a * hitting on 4's (1/2) * wounding on 4's (1/2) * AP2 = 1 wound (18/18) but strikes last!