BA termies and how do you support them?

[BloodTzar]

Well, after last night’s game I am reconsidering my SR list.

 

I even want to change it to point where I will have 2 termie sq., now the question is how to support them to fit them into SR and still get the best out of them.

 

I was thinking that one sq. (3TH/2LC) will have bare lib (rage/not sure yet) and bare priest, now the second (3LC/2TH) is the tricky one. Either I will take TDA priest (5++) or SS Lib (with Sword or MoH/rage).

 

What do you think?

 

~BT

[Sigismund's Fury]

I've found that BA termies dont really need IC's to babysit them. They tear though pretty much anything they touch, i would say to save your ICs to support the "weaker" elements of your list. Also if you are going for broke consinder Corbelo.

[SevenExxes]

I would go with a sanguinary priest in terminator armour for both squads and fit the librarian with an honour guard for deepstrike fun.

[knife&fork]

Terminator death-stars are not what they used to be. Expensive transportation and more units that can "out-rock" them has seen to that.

[Enzephalon]

I've been using a terminator squad with 3LC/2TH accompanied by a librarian in terminator armour with storm shield (for the 3+ invulnerable save).

There was always a priest attached, sometimes with TDA depending on the points.

 

At one point they have been circled by three IG veteran squads, soaking up their whole amount of firepower. I had to take over 30 armour saves and 16 invulnerable saves, losing only 2 guys, just to multi assault two of the squads in my turn.

Fun times....

 

On the other hand they once died horribly in two turns. First the had to take an incredible amount of plasma to the face, just to get drowned in power weapon attacks afterwards. That wasn't even funny anymore. ^^

[Corby]

I've been using a terminator squad with 3LC/2TH accompanied by a librarian in terminator armour with storm shield (for the 3+ invulnerable save).

There was always a priest attached, sometimes with TDA depending on the points.

 

At one point they have been circled by three IG veteran squads, soaking up their whole amount of firepower. I had to take over 30 armour saves and 16 invulnerable saves, losing only 2 guys, just to multi assault two of the squads in my turn.

Fun times....

 

On the other hand they once died horribly in two turns. First the had to take an incredible amount of plasma to the face, just to get drowned in power weapon attacks afterwards. That wasn't even funny anymore. ^^

 

The above example seems a bit lucky to be honest , I can understand passing that may Armour saves for a Fnp terminator unit but making 16 invulnerable saves on top of that is over the top. For Ba the most effective Death star (A land raider death star anyways) is A reclusiarch , 5 assault terminators with 3 th/ss and 2 pairs of lightning claws accompanied by Corbulo in a land-raider redeemer with extra armour (Multi-melta can also be an option, but Anakyr is a B) ). Tough to kill , Corbulo can soak small arms fire , Chaplain can soak plasma for a sort time if you're worried about loosing model count , however this death star requires a good deal of skill in its use (Namely being very good at conga lining , understanding threat ranges and having a good eye for distances as if you play it in the typical "Grr Smash!" kind of way it loses alot of its potential.) to be used effectively. The chaplain and Corbulo hang in the back (of the conga line) and try to avoid combat so they don't take powerfist and power weapon wounds respectively. But like all death stars the list must be built around maximizing its potential.

 

If you're running death stars they must be FEARLESS! You may think having a librarian protects them from psyker battle squads but the psyker battle squad has a range of 36" with weakened resolve to the librarian's 24" hood range. Not to mention that you want your death star immune to tank shocks and other Ld test causing powers so several hundred points of angry red space marines doesn't go running off the board.

[The Holy Heretic]

I don't understand the lack of love for the tactical termies. Sure they haven't got stormshields - but besides GK, just how many armies have power weapons galore, most only have a single fist/squad and a little melta. Tac termies have the ability to tear vehicles apart in CC and provide a decent amount of mobile anti-inf shooting - while only suffering vs. highly dedicated assault units :lol:

[knife&fork]

I don't understand the lack of love for the tactical termies. Sure they haven't got stormshields - but besides GK, just how many armies have power weapons galore, most only have a single fist/squad and a little melta. Tac termies have the ability to tear vehicles apart in CC and provide a decent amount of mobile anti-inf shooting - while only suffering vs. highly dedicated assault units :lol:

 

I love em, they are game winners. The problem I think is that people look at the point cost, count the number of missiles/AC shots they put out and decide that they aren't worth it.

 

What they miss is the staying power of those shots and the duality of the unit. It doesn't matter if they can only stun/destroy one vehicle every shooting phase as long as they can do that consistently. It takes a serious effort to get rid of 10 FnP terminators, fearless makes it even worse!

 

The result is a unit that can help my assault elements bust armor, thin out infantry squads to a manageable size, and tear apart tough targets of opportunity in assault with an ungodly amount of PF attacks.

 

Love em.

[BloodTzar]

Yeah but tacticals have one huge problem, one round of dedicated plasma shooting (which is even more common nowadays) and they are gone... even in assault they are not that great. All this (10 man 2cyclones, 1CF) just for 465 with a 85 priest to support ? No thanks

[knife&fork]

Yeah but tacticals have one huge problem, one round of dedicated plasma shooting (which is even more common nowadays) and they are gone... even in assault they are not that great. All this (10 man 2cyclones, 1CF) just for 465 with a 85 priest to support ? No thanks

 

Dedicated plasma shooting? It takes a lot more than you think. Tactical terminators can stand off at 24 and fire at full effect, avoiding rapid fire plasma and melta, one of their great advantages.

Plasma is relatively uncommon these days. You have plasma vets and LR executioners in IG lists and obliterators in CSM. Outside of that you are not going to see a ton of plasma. Not only that, the large squad footprint makes it easier to get cover saves while having unobstructed view for your cyclones or assault cannons.

 

How mine usually work is that they deploy/DS midfield effectively putting them in range for almost the entire enemy deployment zone. My jumpers tries to eliminate any target with lots of low ap and then concentrate on one flank with support from the terminators. So you are free to dedicate a lot of shooting to get rid of the terminators, but then you have to ignore the more pressing matter of the jump units, still the majority of my force.

 

Concentrate on the terminators and my assault squads live longer, ignore them and the result is often a late game devastating charge.

 

 

EDIT: I might add that I didn't expect this unit to work as well as it does when I first fielded it. I had been underwhelmed by the performance of tac termies before when I ran them in 5-man squads. So one game I took a 10-man just for s**t and giggles.

[appiah4]

Tactical Terminators are cool, but don't deathstar them.

 

Five of them with a CF and CML are great. They are a support unit, not a spearhead.

[knife&fork]

Five of them with a CF and CML are great. They are a support unit, not a spearhead.

 

5 tac terminators falls squarely in the "not enough" category. Providing separate priest coverage for them, which you often have to do, is also very unfavorable in terms of points vs models covered.

[appiah4]

Five of them with a CF and CML are great. They are a support unit, not a spearhead.

 

5 tac terminators falls squarely in the "not enough" category. Providing separate priest coverage for them, which you often have to do, is also very unfavorable in terms of points vs models covered.

 

Like I said, they are a support unit. If you keep them in the 24" range with another shooty squad, or in 12" range with another assaulty squad, then they work. they can assist in either role. Don't give them their own dedicated priest, they don't need it. As a support unit they will always be lesser priority than what they support, but for 235 points they will offer very good support. Just give them a try if you will. If they are not your bag, that's fine.

 

I actually run just five of them with a HF for 205 points. No priests attached. They are a very low priority target most often and can usually deepstrike to badly mess up entrenched enemy troops or just walk around between armor or infantry to support them by shooting targets of opportunity.

[knife&fork]

Just give them a try if you will.

 

I actually run just five of them with a HF for 205 points. No priests attached. They are a very low priority target most often and can usually deepstrike to badly mess up entrenched enemy troops or just walk around between armor or infantry to support them by shooting targets of opportunity.

 

I have, as previously stated, and I found them to be lacking. Not enough damage output, not enough resilience. It was when they hit full size and got priest coverage that they started to pay off. They are still a support unit, an extremely sturdy one. An anvil rather than hammer or rock unit if you want to get metaphorical.

Have you tried what I suggested before dismissing it? Granted those 11 models are a huge investment and will have to be part of a specific build. It's not something you can just throw into any list.

 

Skipping the normal heavies and just taking a heavy flamer sounds interesting though. But it seems to me like they would need a beacon or homer somewhere in the list to ensure that they can end up where they are useful... I miss being able to take pods for terminator squads.

[Brother Chris]

The problem with the BA tactical terminators is the pressure on the elite slots, in my view. There are lots more versatile and BA specific units here clamouring for choice in a regular game. So when I field them they are the Space Hulk models and have the terminator Sanguinary priest attached. This makes them a nice and chapter specific unit, but that is two slots gone already.

[knife&fork]

The problem with the BA tactical terminators is the pressure on the elite slots, in my view. There are lots more versatile and BA specific units here clamouring for choice in a regular game. So when I field them they are the Space Hulk models and have the terminator Sanguinary priest attached. This makes them a nice and chapter specific unit, but that is two slots gone already.

 

What competes for your elite slots? With the PDF-dex it was a constant struggle but now a days I rarely think of them as a problem. I find that the different units there tends to go in different builds anyway.

[Emperors Immortals]

The problem with the BA tactical terminators is the pressure on the elite slots, in my view. There are lots more versatile and BA specific units here clamouring for choice in a regular game. So when I field them they are the Space Hulk models and have the terminator Sanguinary priest attached. This makes them a nice and chapter specific unit, but that is two slots gone already.

 

What competes for your elite slots? With the PDF-dex it was a constant struggle but now a days I rarely think of them as a problem. I find that the different units there tends to go in different builds anyway.

 

 

I agree, the builds i run with termies dont really have competition for elites other then VV or priests, occasionally sterngaurd.

 

The way i favour is to get a tac squad w/ homer on the board (usually with a flat out rhino supported by naked pred) and then DS a 6-7 man termie squad in, w/ attached termie priest. I can then attach the priest to teh tac squad and use the bubble to keep those men alive - this tactic has locked down table quarters and 2 objectives at a time quite regularily, and while expensive is great fun for me. You also have the option of heavy weapons or naked squads, and 18 bolter shots + 6 SB + attached heavies can easily wipe out most any squad in game.

[appiah4]

The problem with the BA tactical terminators is the pressure on the elite slots, in my view. There are lots more versatile and BA specific units here clamouring for choice in a regular game. So when I field them they are the Space Hulk models and have the terminator Sanguinary priest attached. This makes them a nice and chapter specific unit, but that is two slots gone already.

 

What competes for your elite slots? With the PDF-dex it was a constant struggle but now a days I rarely think of them as a problem. I find that the different units there tends to go in different builds anyway.

 

 

I agree, the builds i run with termies dont really have competition for elites other then VV or priests, occasionally sterngaurd.

 

The way i favour is to get a tac squad w/ homer on the board (usually with a flat out rhino supported by naked pred) and then DS a 6-7 man termie squad in, w/ attached termie priest. I can then attach the priest to teh tac squad and use the bubble to keep those men alive - this tactic has locked down table quarters and 2 objectives at a time quite regularily, and while expensive is great fun for me. You also have the option of heavy weapons or naked squads, and 18 bolter shots + 6 SB + attached heavies can easily wipe out most any squad in game.

 

You can actually do this for much cheaper using a tactical squad in a drop pod. The beacons are dirt cheap for pods which are much cheaper than rhinos in turn. You will save a second pod's worth of points.

[Brother Chris]

Sanguinary priests as a must, Furioso Dreads, Sang guard if no Dante. Sternguard and Assault Terminators would outcompete them too.

[Emperors Immortals]

The problem with the BA tactical terminators is the pressure on the elite slots, in my view. There are lots more versatile and BA specific units here clamouring for choice in a regular game. So when I field them they are the Space Hulk models and have the terminator Sanguinary priest attached. This makes them a nice and chapter specific unit, but that is two slots gone already.

 

What competes for your elite slots? With the PDF-dex it was a constant struggle but now a days I rarely think of them as a problem. I find that the different units there tends to go in different builds anyway.

 

 

I agree, the builds i run with termies dont really have competition for elites other then VV or priests, occasionally sterngaurd.

 

The way i favour is to get a tac squad w/ homer on the board (usually with a flat out rhino supported by naked pred) and then DS a 6-7 man termie squad in, w/ attached termie priest. I can then attach the priest to teh tac squad and use the bubble to keep those men alive - this tactic has locked down table quarters and 2 objectives at a time quite regularily, and while expensive is great fun for me. You also have the option of heavy weapons or naked squads, and 18 bolter shots + 6 SB + attached heavies can easily wipe out most any squad in game.

 

You can actually do this for much cheaper using a tactical squad in a drop pod. The beacons are dirt cheap for pods which are much cheaper than rhinos in turn. You will save a second pod's worth of points.

 

 

While i used to DP them ive started using rhinos instead - i pay 20 pts for the below;

 

155 PTS pts min my way, 135 your way it is 20 pts difference, but ive found my Rhino to be more reliable in its delivery, plus its a movable piece of LoS blocker/cover and i can get back in for more 18inch movement and the bolters are more then worth teh 20pts.

 

of course ASM are much cheaper again like you said.....

[Mezkh]

Must be fearless. So a Chaplain is first on the list. 1/6 chance of being naturally fearless isn't bankable at all.

 

Specific to the OP's situation running two squads in ravens, I think Astorath+5 Termies in one bird, Libby+ Priest+5 Termies in the other is the only way to realistically do that and cover all the necessary bases.

 

In general if you're deathstaring BA termies go big or go home.

 

5 + Termie Libby(Rage, sword), reg chaplain and corbs in crusader with MM and EA, 850 points.

 

Or starts on table slog/Corbulo slingshot, full ten with both Chaplain and Librarian.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I'm planning on shaking up my 1.5k list with a complete overhaul, since I've been dying to try out my terminators - planning on running 5 TH/SS with a Reclusiarch in Terminator Armour. Weak spot is that I lack a reliable delivery system, but I plan on using a pair of drop pods with locator beacons to mitigate this (until I find a job I can't justify £41 for a Raven or some flavour of Land Raider :( ). Will post back this evening and let you know how good or otherwise they were.

[BloodTzar]

I think going big, will gimp your army on other places. Therefore I think either, going for 5man sq. with TH/SS - LC with lib and priest is most cost effective.

 

Recently I have found that even 4 TH/SS +LC and rec supported with corbs is very durable hard hitting rock.

 

Problem comes, when you want to run multiple death stars...BA seems to be lackin the FoC slots >.>

 

 

~BT

[knife&fork]

5 + Termie Libby(Rage, sword), reg chaplain and corbs in crusader with MM and EA, 850 points.

 

This just reinforces that trying to deathstar assault terminators in ravens or raiders isn't a good idea. All those points and for what? Don't need to spend that much on killing regular units and you're not going to shift any other deathstar. With a bunch of 1W models every failed save is going to take huge chunks out of your damage output. Way to pricey to justify being used as a diversion.

 

Not really utilising the delivery vehicle itself either.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I agree that death-starring terminators isn't the way to go. The only unit I use that I've heard people refer to as a death star is my 10 man assault squad with a thunder hammer, with attached librarian and priest (both jump packed, priest has a power weapon). Dishes out a LOT of punishment, can take a fair amount, and is scoring. I see terminators to be used as an anvil, rather than a hammer - make them survivable, and use them as a tie-up unit to take something out of the game. If you want something that hits hard, BA have better options.