purifier spam

[Toasterfree]

does it work?

what should you run?

 

this is what i am thinking:

5 5 man units with 2 psys in razorbacks. cheap and simple

 

backed up but some psyfile dreads and an assassin.

 

what things should i consider?

whats the min/max?

would less 10 man units similarly armed (i.e. 4x psy with razor) work better?

[number6]

Oh yes. It works very very well.

 

HQ

[150 pts] Crowe

 

Troop

[190 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[190 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[190 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[190 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[190 pts] 5 Purifiers, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[180 pts] 5 Purifiers, psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

 

Heavy Support

[190 pts] 5 Purgators, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[190 pts] 5 Purgators, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

[190 pts] 5 Purgators, 2x psycannon; Razorback, psybolts

 

Total: 1850 pts

 

Add hammers to take the list to higher points, or wipe any one unit to free up points for a few hammers to spread around. There are ways to diversify the list up a bit, if you want, but this is the basic template and it works just fine as-is.

[Toasterfree]

purgates over dreads? i can see how they would be harder to take out. maybe one purgate and two dreads?

 

there are hammers in every unit that I have. and the vindicare to take out the larger threats and pick off wargear that i dont want.

 

i just read that razor spam really doesnt work unless you are playing coteaz. i also put in a tech marine. that would give one unit 5 fist attacks plus a twin linked plasma shot or a flamer if playing something horde.

[Gentlemanloser]

Razor spam works fine with Crowe, or with OM Inqs in TDA.

 

You don't need Coteaz for it.

 

As for why Purg's. It's to make target priority a nightmare for you opponent. Which unit does he kill, when they're all the same, with the same output?

 

If you have 1/2 Dreads, then they become the focus for all your opponents AV weapons.

[adamv6]

No offence to anyone, but playing with Purifier Spam (as listed by number6) must be absolutely mind numbing :tu:

[Toasterfree]

Razor spam works fine with Crowe, or with OM Inqs in TDA.

 

You don't need Coteaz for it.

 

As for why Purg's. It's to make target priority a nightmare for you opponent. Which unit does he kill, when they're all the same, with the same output?

 

If you have 1/2 Dreads, then they become the focus for all your opponents AV weapons.

 

so are you saying no dreads at all? just running with 9 razors with HBs and psy ammo?

 

No offence to anyone, but playing with Purifier Spam (as listed by number6) must be absolutely mind numbing :tu:

yeah thats kinda what i want lol. i have other toys to play with also, but want something else on the chance that i get to play in tournies

[the jeske]

so are you saying no dreads at all? just running with 9 razors with HBs and psy ammo?

your taking dreads if you know your going to play more kill point missions and more IG or eldar . you take more razors if you know most armies will be meq . + your always taking a gamble against LR rush or orcs in battlewagons[because rendings sometimes dont happen or they do but on the last unit your rolling . or he rolls cover etc]

 

crow armies are hard to play because of all the counting you have to do in your mind on your opponents phase . it is a good thing to have those ready[how many units on avarge do I need to do X] on a pice of paper so you know what to focus fire first in which build .

[Toasterfree]

crow armies are hard to play because of all the counting you have to do in your mind on your opponents phase . it is a good thing to have those ready[how many units on avarge do I need to do X] on a pice of paper so you know what to focus fire first in which build .

is there someone that has already done this, or should i be compling army lists from people that I have played lately to start building this?

 

i understand the math hammering going into shots into the unit. Just dont know if there is something that I could borrow from and then look at my own meta and apply there.

[number6]

No offence to anyone, but playing with Purifier Spam (as listed by number6) must be absolutely mind numbing :)

Well ... it depends what you're looking for in your gaming.

 

Army builds like the one I suggest focus on the tactical gameplay at the expense of what GW typically presents as "balanced, representative" armies. You have a bunch lego bricks, all of them identical. Your task, in the game, is to determine what needs to built with those bricks ... and then to build it. Do you need a castle? You have bricks, go build it. Do you need a missile? Hey, those same bricks can be used to build that, too.

 

In a way, it's like the difference between chess and go. In chess, you have multiple pieces with different abilities, and the challenge is melding their abilities together into a winning strategy. In go, all the pieces are completely identical, and there are no variant rules for the pieces. It's a purely spatial game, but tactically deep. (Some people even say that go is a deeper and more challenging game than chess can ever hope to be. I have no dog in this fight, FWIW, so don't start with me on this one!)

 

It's not like either approach to playing 40K is "wrong" or "boring". It is only "wrong" or "boring" if that's not what gets your rocks off in the hobby.

 

Most people, it seems to me, enter 40K because of all the shiny toys, and so they tend to build armies with as wide a variety of shiny toys as they can get. Because they like their aesthetics, because they like the myriad challenges of painting and modeling, because they like the story behind the units (of GW's or their own invention), and perhaps because they feel this is the "proper" way to play Warhammer. (GW certainly pushes this as the "ideal". They really don't like a more tactically competitive approach to their games.)

 

Other people approach 40K with a more purely "gamer's" attitude. The aesthetics of the models might be important, but that is subserviant to having a tactically rich army. MSU armies with lots of nearly identical lego bricks tend to be quite powerful in the actual game. And this is true for any and all wargames, not just 40K.

[Toasterfree]

Most people, it seems to me, enter 40K because of all the shiny toys, and so they tend to build armies with as wide a variety of shiny toys as they can get. Because they like their aesthetics, because they like the myriad challenges of painting and modeling, because they like the story behind the units (of GW's or their own invention), and perhaps because they feel this is the "proper" way to play Warhammer. (GW certainly pushes this as the "ideal". They really don't like a more tactically competitive approach to their games.)

 

Other people approach 40K with a more purely "gamer's" attitude. The aesthetics of the models might be important, but that is subserviant to having a tactically rich army. MSU armies with lots of nearly identical lego bricks tend to be quite powerful in the actual game. And this is true for any and all wargames, not just 40K.

i have said this and i maintain it...the internet and 'ard boyz ruined list building. while asking for advise about building a list is fine, there are too many cookie cutters out there right now.

[the jeske]

the internet and 'ard boyz ruined list building.

realy you think people would have needed hard boyz or internetz to see that 5 x +2 psycannon +1 unstunlockable razorback for 190pts maybe kind of a good , specialy when you get a free build in counter psychic power that gives GK an extra round hth but one in which only they strike and where wounds carry over to the next hth phase ?

[Gentlemanloser]

Well ... it depends what you're looking for in your gaming.

 

I dislike just +1 ing posts, but this whole post is so absolutley spot on. It's a gem.

 

If we had 'like' buttons, I'd even like it (although I dislike like buttons! B)).

[Toasterfree]

the internet and 'ard boyz ruined list building.

realy you think people would have needed hard boyz or internetz to see that 5 x +2 psycannon +1 unstunlockable razorback for 190pts maybe kind of a good , specialy when you get a free build in counter psychic power that gives GK an extra round hth but one in which only they strike and where wounds carry over to the next hth phase ?

wow you took that way out of context....

 

my comment was based on the previous one that people no longer just take whats cool. i remember back in the day before people would net list and show up at events with things that now would make you shake your head and say what? but it worked and it was fun.

 

now if someone says "i am playing <insert army here>" you can think on your head and say something like "ohh mtl they are playing <insert name of list here>." FOR EXAMPLE, space wolves (which is my main army) you think missile fang spam in a lot of cases. NOPE. not me. I take what is effective with out spam. mix max each unit, assign it a role and execute.

 

i dont take 15 LF with missilse cause it simply doesnt work against everything TO ITS BEST. sure its a lot of missiles that you can fire at 6 targets. but you lose a lot against av 13+. even AV 12 a missile isnt epic. its like a rail gun at a LR. about half the time you will do something. i want more than that. so LC. i want to be able to take out chunks of infantry so PC and HBs.

 

NETLISTING ruined list building. and when you look at the army list section, almost EVERY response has one of those "you should take <insert unit here> because <insert reason here> over <other unit here> because the <suggested unit and reason>." no regards to saying something like "hey your list is cool, i like the theme, some people find <unit here> work better have you considered that?"

[Gentlemanloser]

no regards to saying something like "hey your list is cool, i like the theme, some people find <unit here> work better have you considered that?"

 

That's becuase it's a rare army list thread that asks;

 

Hi, how can I mate my theme better (there are a couple, but it's rare).

 

It's usually;

 

Hi, how can I make my list more competitive, to win more matches?

 

If 40k had more narative stuff, and less emphasis on killing your opponent to win, then I wager there would be more talk of themed armies. But as it stands, 40k is a wargame you play to win. And you win by killing your opponent. So it's no surprise when folk play to kill.

 

Rather than tell a story.

[Toasterfree]

i feel, as the OP, that my question has been diverted into something else.....

 

back to topic...

 

pur spam MSUs...viable, people say yes.

 

 

ok viability is there....NOW, what I need to know is how to make it more flexible...

 

at 1850 with all purs and purgates you can still stick an assassin in there for high AV and for taking out those pesky things that i dont want.....

 

what other things could you put in to divert attention from MSUs to allow them to survive a bit more/longer AND add in fire power...

 

psys alone are not enough. since i dont have a solid list i am not posting it in the army list section, once i get somethign that i feel that i am comfortable with, not only playing but have a better idea of using it, then i will.

[Gentlemanloser]

Add in the Dreads.

 

You have enough Rhino Hulls for them to hide behind.

 

Of course, you'd want to take them as Venerable, as nothing in Elite can give you another Razorback.

 

Also add in an OM Inq in TDA wth a Psycannon, and an additional Warrior Accolyte Squade with Stormbolters and another Razor.

 

You can then stick the useless Crowe into the Warriors Empty Razor, as the OM Inq can't ride in it.

[Toasterfree]

inquis instead of the assassin...why?

 

and why warriors, why not more dakkas with servitors (HBs and MMs). i understand the razor as the more dakkas of the chimera doesnt have fortitude so i wont ask that.

[Gentlemanloser]

Mobility.

 

With TDA the OM Inq can move and fire his Psycannon at full effect. That's why his Warriors have SB and not Bolters. The Warriors are really there for ablative wounds for him, and some extra chea dakka. And to unlock the Razor of course. ;)

[Toasterfree]

how many points are you talking about there?

 

would it be worth NOT having the assassin for these?

 

i think i would lose out on being able to take out larger tanks.

[Gentlemanloser]

Any increase over the 1850. You might want to experiment with Dreads before, but I'd be wary of watering down your Razorbacks to pick up Dreads.

 

OM Inq and extra Razor first! Move up everything to 24" and pew pew. Once you've run out of slots to take Razors in, pick up some dreads.

 

As for Tanks, that's what your Psycannons are for.

 

And if anyone runs a LR, lol and smash it up with S10 Nemesis Daemon Hammers. ;)

[Murcielago]

Personally, I would take an assassin over an inquisitor anyday. My vindicare has done more damage and scares the hell out of people way more than an inquisitor could ever do...and that psychological effect definitely helps out alot.

 

What is the loadout on your squads? 5 purifiers: 2 psycannons, 2 halbreds, 1 hammer?

 

Also, what are your razors equipped with? just basic heavy bolters with psybolts???

 

Also also, advice for Crowe, if its an annihilation mission: HIDE HIM WHERE NOONE WILL EVER FIND HIM!! otherwise, just charge him at the enemy and watch as he surprisingly might do something. Maybe keep him hidden behind your razorbacks to avoid enemy sniping (darklances and lascannons come to mind here)

[Murcielago]

Double post...I know, but I must say that its ironic that you, Toasterfree, would start a purifer thread seeing you denied Crowe's "prowess" in a past thread :D

 

Just a quick laugh at irony, no harm intended :lol:

 

Edit: (so I dont post another one!!) I also agree with you that netlists are kind of killing the hobby for some...It almost feels like there's no character in warhammer anymore (at least in 40k). Everything is starting to feel the same to me when I play a game with a random person at my gamestore. You made an example of space wolves nowadays and I'll build off that: space wolves are written to be some of the most characterful marines alive!! And it's a shame that every wolf player runs 5missiles in a squad instead of switching things out (I enjoy 2 lascannons with 3 plasmas ;) ). Or how every single wolf guard has a powerfist and combi-bolter of some sort...RANT OVER

[Gentlemanloser]

No Halberds on the Puri's.

 

Depends on points. S6 H Bolter razors are good enough, but if you have the points take Assault Cannon ones. More Psycannons!

 

While the Vindicare is good, he is vulnerable to a single good hit taking him out. Like a single Missile Launcher. It really depends on your playstyle and opponents. But taking him means you lose out on putting another vehicle on the board.

[Murcielago]

I would definitely upgrade heavy bolters into assault cannons, although it nearly doubles the cost of your razorbacks.

 

And although you are right about the vindicare, I would rather take him and freak an opponent out instead of just taking "another vehicle". Also, good cover helps his case alot as well...especially in your backfield or on a flank.

 

EDIT: spelling

[the jeske]

my comment was based on the previous one that people no longer just take whats cool.

190 pts for a unstunlockable razorback and 2 psycannons and an anti melee/anti horde psychic power is not cool 0_o ?

 

i remember back in the day before people would net list and show up at events with things that now would make you shake your head and say what?

I dont remember such times and I remember w40k from the point the 20 AC +20 cyclons stackable template SW build came out.

 

but you lose a lot against av 13+

and that is what 1 build out of BAs and not even widly played at 1500 [simple razor build is more shoty with just 3 preds] and LR rush [which gets stomped hard because of the melta spam everywhere] . you may have find necrons problematics , but that is a problem for all gunline/razor builds and draigowing . and that is it . everything else RL work perfect . so after the necron dex goes legal you just switched a squad to 5 man and switched the LF to a 2 las 3 RL set up and your done . There is one build that doesnt become better with LF from the SW dex[not that it becomes weaker] and it is a drop pod list.

 

even AV 12 a missile isnt epic. its like a rail gun at a LR. about half the time you will do something.

yes that is why you kind of a spam . you spam those 5man melta GH to get las or las plas razors your spam RL or RL/las LF . sure a rail gun has a 50% chance to do something[probably less there is still cover to deal with , but am not a math person] , but have you ever seen a tau army of normal size with less then 8 ?

hey your list is cool, i like the theme, some people find <unit here> work better have you considered that?"

show me a better support section for tau then 1 hamer and2x3 broades . or oblits for chaos . or show me a GK army that becomes weaker when it takes rifle man . I dont understand what a theme [in list building] suppose to be . the goal is to make a good list and unless the advice is given by a friend [who knows that there are 3 necron players 2 draigowings and 2 BA pred build guys coming to the next tournament which is 26 man big] people give advice based on list synergy and all comers effectiness . If someone posts 6x6man syren [champ no fist] 2 lord chaos army then people will say it is a bad one.

+ there is always a problem of some dex carring weaker gamers and some lists working against nid armies .

Each time I read BoLS reports on the nid infiltration list I dont know If I want to laugh or cry . a puri spam army in transport disembarks and castels turn 1 to get hit by doom turn 2 and lose half its numbers 0_o . Sure nids win , but does it mean the nid list is good ? if that list says anything about anything , then about the type of gamers the nid player faces [even if he does claim they are the best of the best].