Inquisitor Fox Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Alright... back on topic you all. This is no longer about the effectiveness of an a Purifier-spam army list or how to use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Except that's not the point, gw doesn't fill its rulebooks with nothing but competetive viable units because that's not the point in there game, the point is to play mini narrative stories on a table, not to smash your opponents army off the board in the least amount of turns. cool and then you play someone . and its 1 chimer vets 1 chimer vets 1 chimera vets 2xvendetta. It doesnt matter what GW says it thinks [and not just because they offten lie to save face or talk to a minority of people in the hobby. damn I almost typed playing] . they thought that chaos players wouldnt use 2xDP because other options are so awesome . people play stuff that works , they want armies that work . If it was different then you would have more people playing tau/nids DA or chaos , because the "cool" factor[for what ever it is for someone] would work in favor of all armies . And what do we actualy get ? sunday gamers codex hoping [their choice] , people playing the actualy viable and good armies . That is how w40k looks as a hobby for the whole community around the world . You will always find more people playing good lists then those dude with BC footslogg builds [and there is nothing wrong with it to be honest] . As narrative goes . w40k stoped being that when 2ed started. Except that's not the point, gw doesn't fill its rulebooks with nothing but competetive viable units have you ever seen a kelly or ward dex ? also your forgetting that building an army that kills your opponent in 2 turns is not optimal , because A you would have to be 100% sure you can do that [not possible] B some scenarios generate extra points so wining before you get the maximum of those may push you away from wining. Why then ruin the perfect idea of a game, by spamming units to give yourself the best chance of winning with as little effort as you can? and you tell me that I dont understand the game . A if both armies are on the same level then there are no auto wins . B yes you can kick a dude playing a demi company in the nads . But a win is a win for someone who is there to play the game and the losing dude is playing for fluff right , he shouldnt care about wins or loses because he is all about the narrative and the fluff[which he can go back to writing after the game.no harm done] . Or does it work like this some dudes have good armies and have a good time playing against everything . other dudes have bad armies which they find cool[because of models looks , their awesome paint jobs or their/GW fluff] , but they dont have a good record against dudes with good armies . So they try to do two things 1st they say that the "game" is not about wining[then why whine that stuff is OP] and 2ed give a false picture of the hobby , where suddenly good armies are not fun to play[ask a GK player what was more "fun" playing the ward dex or 4th ed witht he old dex] , people with good armies are all bastards[as if that had anything to do with army building abilties of a person] and only the grow and mature people can enjoy games . ah yes and WAAC players cry after losing. Every time someone spams a list, the Emperor sheds a tear. hello there sister. how is your 1 troop 1 hvy 1 FA . 2 identical HQs codex doing ? Use your imagination for goodness sake people, this is another problem with your gamers, if gw doesn't hand you ideas your too bone idol to think it yourselves or scared that gw will come and punish you. you do know that realy good players after seeing terrain and army set up of opponents and their own play 2-3 turns of the game in their mind with modifications for tanks is dead/stunlocked/untouched passed cover ? another of those false claims , if a tournament player/gamer wouldnt be able to use his imagination he wouldnt ever get past gold fish build. he would never be able to adjust his army to different tournament[or not] scenarios. he would be unable to act , if dice suddenly didnt roll avarge but below . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 OK, here's a 3,000 point list with Psycannon Razors to digest. ;) HQ: Crowe (150) HQ: OM Inq, TDA, Psy (80) Elite: Warrior x5, Storm Bolter x5, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (120) Elite: Ven Dread, TL Autocannon x2, Psybolt Ammo (195) Elite: Ven Dread, TL Autocannon x2, Psybolt Ammo (195) Elite: Ven Dread, TL Autocannon x2, Psybolt Ammo (195) Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Troop: Purifier x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x2, NDH, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (230) Heavy: Purgation x5, Psycannon x2, Razorback, TL Assault Cannon, Psybolt Ammo (225) Total: 3,000 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-a-nothepsis Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Lately, I have seen Gk players run 7 purifiers in rhinos, due in no small part to my Ap3 bolters. I doubt you should really be afraid of Thousand Sons in your area. Rhinos are just fine, so long as you have a proper number of purifiers. As many razorbacks as you can fit with minimum troops is definitely "best", though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murcielago Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 The only real problem that I've found with psycannon razorbacks is that once again you're limited to that 24" firefight range which at 3000+ points means you might be at a range disadvantage. The amount of guns that Dark Eldar and Guard can bring to bear at 3000 points is scary stupid, most of which are 36" to 48" in range, which will blow us out the water before we can ever get close :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 The only real problem that I've found with psycannon razorbacks is that once again you're limited to that 24" firefight range which at 3000+ points means you might be at a range disadvantage. The amount of guns that Dark Eldar and Guard can bring to bear at 3000 points is scary stupid, most of which are 36" to 48" in range, which will blow us out the water before we can ever get close :D That's not really a problem, and is in fact a problem with Purifier spam alone. Purifiers cannot deep strike. Ergo a list composed mostly or solely of Purifiers will always have this problem. The solution is diversification, since the logical solution to dealing with being outranged is to deploy via deep strike within 24" of your target. Problem solved. Especially since pretty much every unit in our Codex save Purifiers, Purgators, and vehicles that don't fly can deep strike. Oh.. Inquisitors can't deep strike but if you use the IA Volume 2 rules can get a Valkyrie so that works. In a well rounded list, you have a few units with multiple deployment options for exactly this sort of scenario. An Imperial Gunline doesn't matter much if you're descending from the sky onto their heads and remove their greatest advantage... range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Or you 12" the Razor's, disembark, and shoot your enemy. Then next turn the Razors shoot as well, and you're camped in midfield and can shoot either Long table edge. /shrug 24" range isn't really too much of a downside. Especially with 10 Rhino hulls... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Since the OP mentioned assassins I can see the use of a culexus for mass low ap fire. Shame the range is so short Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3042938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I’ve been tempted to try my luck with Crowe :P But I will be doing it a bit differently. HQ: Crowe. 150p Librarian: Stave, Shrouding, Sanctuary, Warp Rift, MoT, 2x Servo skulls. 215p Troops: 10 x Purifiers: Stave, Hammer, 4x Halberds, 4x Psycannons. 298p 5 x Purifiers: 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, 2x Psycannons. 149p Fast: Storm raven: TLLC, TLMM. 205p Storm raven: TLLC, TLMM. 205p Heavy: Dreadnought: Assault cannon, Psy-bolts. 130p Dreadnought: Assault cannon, Psy-bolts. 130p Land Raider: Dozer blades, psy-bolts. 265 Sum: 1747p Worthless in an objectives game, but looks extremely fun to play :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I'd suggest dropping the Land Raider; fun as it is, it's kind of a waste to have three heavy transports when there's only two units to carry in your army. Well, unless you're planning to give Crowe his own Raven/Raider... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 why do you try to make an assault army out of purifires when there is nothing in the dex that makes them good at it or to be the base of a such a list . + unit inner dichotomy . 2 SR[no fire points] 1 big puri units ment for hth and small . 6 psycannons bought as upgrades 0_o ???? AC armed dreads . you have more transports then you need or your buying a 200+pts transport for crow[which is not a good idea]. army is assault bud doesnt use DCA , no inq for grandes , nor techmarines[for same grandes]. totaly out of focus. The only real problem that I've found with psycannon razorbacks is that once again you're limited to that 24" firefight range which at 3000+ points means you might be at a range disadvantage. at 3k+ your playing apo and range is no longer your problem . the problem is multiple D class weapons , undercosted stuff. [like 10+ vendetta. each one alone . each with 3 twin las] or generaly stuff that in normal games is balanced around the idea of you can take 1 max 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 To be fair, I only posted a 3K list for a laugh, showing what the points would be to fill up allt he slots bar Fast. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Land Raider: Dozer blades, psy-bolts. 265 Note that Land Raiders can't take dozer blades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 It’s just about the right amount of transports actually :D. Crowe and one of the dreads in one Raven and the Librarian, the other dread and the 10 man squad in the other, the small squad goes in to the Land Raider. The only “assault unit” her is Crowe and his dread lol. Hmmm probably should give his dread a Heavy flamer instead… Anyway, this list is all about fun. Common, I’m using Crowe for The Emperors sake! :) Turn 1-3 will probably consist of shooting, followed by disembarking and shooting. 4-5 will be Crowes glories assault, “Can you feel it brother?! Praise The Emperor!!!”. Turns 5-7 the purifiers will probably be doing some hand to hand around the objectives. Then I will probably loose, but I am looking forward to some amazing combats with Crowe :D. Just picture how amassing it would be to go up against a Draigo wing list. First hitting Draigo and his paladins with 4 missiles, forcing them to succeed with 8 invulnerable saves, twice. And then assault them with Crowe and his Dread, spread some wounds around and then die, but take Draigo with you! That’s 280pts of a two man suicide squad, but the most hilarious 280pts you would ever spend! MOHAHAHAHHA! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Land Raider: Dozer blades, psy-bolts. 265 Note that Land Raiders can't take dozer blades. Really? Are you sure? I don’t have the codex on me, but I could have sworn that they can… Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Land Raider: Dozer blades, psy-bolts. 265 Note that Land Raiders can't take dozer blades. Really? Are you sure? I don’t have the codex on me, but I could have sworn that they can… Just checked my codex, and GK Land Raiders don't get dozer blades as an option. Seems like GW is phasing out Land Raider Dozer Blades; they are listed as an option in Codex:SM and the older books, but Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and GKs don't get them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Seems like GW is phasing out Land Raider Dozer Blades; they are listed as an option in Codex:SM and the older books, but Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and GKs don't get them. I believe Codex: Space Marines doesn't have the option either, which would make all 5th edition marine codex Land Raiders dozerless. I guess it makes sense, the dozer blade would get in the way of the assault ramp. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Seems like GW is phasing out Land Raider Dozer Blades; they are listed as an option in Codex:SM and the older books, but Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and GKs don't get them. I believe Codex: Space Marines doesn't have the option either, which would make all 5th edition marine codex Land Raiders dozerless. I guess it makes sense, the dozer blade would get in the way of the assault ramp. :yes: It makes suchs perfect sense that your 250 - 265 points super expensive and heavy and wide tank will immo itself 1 in 6 times when moving through terrain.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 or assassians i am looking at the callidus. im just about to the point where i am going to post a list. and thanks for getting back on topic. i had to go through 2.5 pages of not on topic. as yes. at one point i did hate crowe. as much as i wanted to avoid MSU with my GK but found that i really cant. so yeah. sadly i have to go to spam :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 You can MSU without Crowe. For example; HQ: OM Inq, TDA, Psy (80) HQ: OM Inq, TDA, Psy (80) Elite: WA x5, SB x5, Razor, Psybolt (85) Elite: WA x5, SB x5, Razor, Psybolt (85) Elite: Puri x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (180) Elite: Puri x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (180) Troop: Strike x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (160) Troop: Strike x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (160) Troop: Strike x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (160) Troop: Strike x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (160) Troop: Strike x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (160) Troop: Strike x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (160) Heavy: Purg x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (170) Heavy: Purg x5, Psy, Razor, Psybolt (170) Total: 1,990 Add a few Hammers, or drop some units for Dreads, and you're golden. The single Psycannons on the Puri's and Purgs are again to muddle target priorities. As for the Cally. Now she can't assault from DS, I wouldn't touch her. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 the cally isnt there to assualt the turn she comes in. she is there to drop in, cause wounds from coming in, and then flame heavy weapon units or high priority targets. then when they shoot at her, gtg and get a 2+ cover save (dropping her in cover). the cally would be able to take out all of the big bugs with a few problems, almost all non-SM HQ choices and pallys. on paper she looks horrible, but in game play she can be awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Why not Take Mordrak on his own instead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Why not Take Mordrak on his own instead? the assassin with the ap1 plamer is better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Personally, I would take an assassin over an inquisitor anyday. My vindicare has done more damage and scares the hell out of people way more than an inquisitor could ever do...and that psychological effect definitely helps out alot. What is the loadout on your squads? 5 purifiers: 2 psycannons, 2 halbreds, 1 hammer? Also, what are your razors equipped with? just basic heavy bolters with psybolts??? Also also, advice for Crowe, if its an annihilation mission: HIDE HIM WHERE NOONE WILL EVER FIND HIM!! otherwise, just charge him at the enemy and watch as he surprisingly might do something. Maybe keep him hidden behind your razorbacks to avoid enemy sniping (darklances and lascannons come to mind here) the purs are just basic. with the few points that i have extra in the list i could probably do a few with halbs, but wouldnt make much sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I always figured that 'dozer blade' on a Land Raider was a.. gah, brain fart, what's the word for when you name things that do the same thing the same, even though they're different, just to avoid confusion? Bleh. One of those. Some older codexes had a "Rough Terrain Modification" instead of a dozer blade - it did the same thing, but didn't explicitly say it was a scoop on the front. This was taken to be armoured underbelly, improved suspension, tracks over wheels, that sort of thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/250875-purifier-spam/page/3/#findComment-3043887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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