Thunderwolves

[Grimtooth]

Thunderwolves were never overpowered. When the codex first came out people just did not account for their strengths while ignoring their weaknesses. Now with an official model range out there is just a resurgance of people using them that never have before. In reality, thunderwolves are not the massive Deathstar people boast or whine about. They are like a how powered laser scapel, then when used precisely and with the proper support can carve the heart out of an enemy force, quickly, brutally, and cleanly. They are no longer a point and shoot unit as they were when the codex first hit.

[MalachiOfRuss]

In short: they are a well designed unit, in a well designed codex, by a codex writer with a solid (the best?) grasp on Codex and game balance. Not overpowered.

[Stormshadow]

I have never liked the thunder wolf cavalry, so I have never used them ether. IC on wolf is another matter. I don’t think TWC is overpowered, but sometimes overrated, and now when they have models I may just give them a try… Point wise I think they are spot on, to expensive to be chosen lightly, but good enough to be able to earn their points back.

 

But I have to ask something… looking at the codex yesterday, I concluded ones again that only one model in the TWC can have a special cc weapon like a hammer or fist. But I have seen lists where the cavalry have more than one… am I missing something? Or are they just using three wolves to fill all FA slots?

[Max_Dammit]

thats one way to do it, the other is a lord or wgbl with a 2nd special

[Wispy]

I have never liked the thunder wolf cavalry, so I have never used them ether. IC on wolf is another matter. I don’t think TWC is overpowered, but sometimes overrated, and now when they have models I may just give them a try… Point wise I think they are spot on, to expensive to be chosen lightly, but good enough to be able to earn their points back.

 

But I have to ask something… looking at the codex yesterday, I concluded ones again that only one model in the TWC can have a special cc weapon like a hammer or fist. But I have seen lists where the cavalry have more than one… am I missing something? Or are they just using three wolves to fill all FA slots?

I find a lot of people don't realize you're only allowed to buy one special weapon.

[Russ Brother 92]

I have never liked the thunder wolf cavalry, so I have never used them ether. IC on wolf is another matter. I don’t think TWC is overpowered, but sometimes overrated, and now when they have models I may just give them a try… Point wise I think they are spot on, to expensive to be chosen lightly, but good enough to be able to earn their points back.

 

But I have to ask something… looking at the codex yesterday, I concluded ones again that only one model in the TWC can have a special cc weapon like a hammer or fist. But I have seen lists where the cavalry have more than one… am I missing something? Or are they just using three wolves to fill all FA slots?

I find a lot of people don't realize you're only allowed to buy one special weapon.

 

It's sounds daft but then maybe those people should read what it actually states in the codex; "One Thunderwolf Rider may replace his close combat weapon with one of the following: ..." -> not 1 in 3 or 5 just 1 and only 1

[d@n]

no they are not over powered! there are things in most codex's that slaughter them.

[Wispy]

I have never liked the thunder wolf cavalry, so I have never used them ether. IC on wolf is another matter. I don’t think TWC is overpowered, but sometimes overrated, and now when they have models I may just give them a try… Point wise I think they are spot on, to expensive to be chosen lightly, but good enough to be able to earn their points back.

 

But I have to ask something… looking at the codex yesterday, I concluded ones again that only one model in the TWC can have a special cc weapon like a hammer or fist. But I have seen lists where the cavalry have more than one… am I missing something? Or are they just using three wolves to fill all FA slots?

I find a lot of people don't realize you're only allowed to buy one special weapon.

 

It's sounds daft but then maybe those people should read what it actually states in the codex; "One Thunderwolf Rider may replace his close combat weapon with one of the following: ..." -> not 1 in 3 or 5 just 1 and only 1

Daft indeed. You haven't heard the "But they're wolf guard!" defense yet.

[Xeenos]

But they ARE Wolf Guard.. while that wont see me changing what gear they get. Seams odd that their supposed to be Wolf Guard, yet they dont have access to Wolf Guard gear, nor even Wolf Guard stats. I suppose the lower LD value could be attributed to the Thunderwolf.

[Captain Idaho]

In short: they are a well designed unit, in a well designed codex, by a codex writer with a solid (the best?) grasp on Codex and game balance. Not overpowered.

 

I agree they are a balanced unit, but there is no way the SW Codex is well designed book. The internal balance of the book is awful. Look at the Grey Hunters>Blood Claws problem, or Long Fangs sneaking into every list out there at the expense of all other Heavy Support choices. Not to mention the Lukas and Thunderwolves concepts just being juvenile.

 

Whilst 40K is replete with cheesey and comedic concepts, I have developed a fondness for the new, grimer and darker aspects of the background material.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

In short: they are a well designed unit, in a well designed codex, by a codex writer with a solid (the best?) grasp on Codex and game balance. Not overpowered.

 

I agree they are a balanced unit, but there is no way the SW Codex is well designed book. The internal balance of the book is awful. Look at the Grey Hunters>Blood Claws problem, or Long Fangs sneaking into every list out there at the expense of all other Heavy Support choices. Not to mention the Lukas and Thunderwolves concepts just being juvenile.

 

Whilst 40K is replete with cheesey and comedic concepts, I have developed a fondness for the new, grimer and darker aspects of the background material.

 

:)

I was waiting for you to say this^ as soon as you posted the first time.

As day follows night

:lol:

 

I read this from the PP forums:

"No, because once I accept that giant steam-powered automatons can be psychicly commanded by gifted wizard warriors who also fling magic spells from their fingers, all bets are pretty much off."

From this thread ;)

 

I know you probably won't embrace it, but you know, even steel absorbs water ;)

 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

[Captain Idaho]

Nope! :lol:

 

But seriously though, I've actually developed a fondness for Space Wolves from the background material themed around the darker aspects of 40K. I am a little annoyed they are done a dis-service by their own Codex just as I'm starting to get into them! :)

 

You're right though, probably not worth bringing up all the time any more. After all I don't want to sound like a broken record, or become predictable. Bad Idaho.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Nope! :P

 

But seriously though, I've actually developed a fondness for Space Wolves from the background material themed around the darker aspects of 40K. I am a little annoyed they are done a dis-service by their own Codex just as I'm starting to get into them! :)

 

You're right though, probably not worth bringing up all the time any more. After all I don't want to sound like a broken record, or become predictable. Bad Idaho.

 

Yes, I also do enjoy and prefer the more serious Abnett and Wraight Wolves to the King Wolves.

I guess you have to or can look at Real Life sillyness as not sillyness in Universe. According to the Universes physics, XYZ works, regardless of, say, Dreadnoughts having a hard time walking let alone running or fighting, etc.

 

No problems then ;)

 

I do understand your frustration at designers though -> for me, it is the laziness I perceive in GW's rules that gets my goat, and I would also mention it whenever I can. Oh look, I've done it again :lol:

 

But yeah, the SW fans don't really have a say in it either, just like the UM players, or GK players, didn't write the respective Greatest or Tag Mortarion's Heart fluff. We just like the faction and the fluff, mostly :D and are otherwise innocent of GW's various faux pas.

 

Or some of us might like the 'faux pas' and that is cool too.

 

;)

[dswanick]

I agree they are a balanced unit, but there is no way the SW Codex is well designed book. The internal balance of the book is awful. Look at the Grey Hunters>Blood Claws problem, or Long Fangs sneaking into every list out there at the expense of all other Heavy Support choices. Not to mention the Lukas and Thunderwolves concepts just being juvenile.

While I agree that the Blood Claw/Grey Hunters point balance is off and the Long Fangs are just too much better than any other Heavy Support choice for the points, I'm going to split my agreement on the Lukas/Thunderwolves opinion. Yes, Thunderwolves are silly. GW can keep them and give me back my Heavy Support Leman Russ, but I'm pretty sure that Lukas has existed longer than the current incarnation of the Codex - at least in the fluff.

Whilst 40K is replete with cheesey and comedic concepts, I have developed a fondness for the new, grimer and darker aspects of the background material.

Grimmer and darker - like the Blood Angels/Necron bro fist of shared Tyrannid hate? Or the "utterly incorruptable paragons of supreme human psychic mastery and anti-chaos awesomeness" using a blood sacrifice of fellow servants of the Emperor to protect them from the dark power of the Blood God? ;)

[Valerian]

While I agree that the Blood Claw/Grey Hunters point balance is off and the Long Fangs are just too much better than any other Heavy Support choice for the points, I'm going to split my agreement on the Lukas/Thunderwolves opinion. Yes, Thunderwolves are silly. GW can keep them and give me back my Heavy Support Leman Russ, but I'm pretty sure that Lukas has existed longer than the current incarnation of the Codex - at least in the fluff.

 

Nope, Lukas was a new invention from our latest codex; he had not existed prior to that. My guess is that Kelly wanted a character to reflect "Loki" qualities, which was a misguided objective. We don't need, and I don't appreciate a character introduced in the fluff that doesn't reflect Space Marine, Space Wolves, or Fenrisian attributes. We need heroes like Ranulf, not ill-disciplined troublemakers like Lukas.

 

As far as TWC as Wolf Guard go, the lower Ld does reflect the challenge of controlling the predator in combat, while the lack of options is a deliberate choice to maintain balance. If TWC could be configured like a WG unit can, then they very definitely would be overpowered, and you'd be silly not to take three full units every game.

 

 

Valerian

[Grimtooth]

While I agree that the Blood Claw/Grey Hunters point balance is off and the Long Fangs are just too much better than any other Heavy Support choice for the points, I'm going to split my agreement on the Lukas/Thunderwolves opinion. Yes, Thunderwolves are silly. GW can keep them and give me back my Heavy Support Leman Russ, but I'm pretty sure that Lukas has existed longer than the current incarnation of the Codex - at least in the fluff.

 

Nope, Lukas was a new invention from our latest codex; he had not existed prior to that. My guess is that Kelly wanted a character to reflect "Loki" qualities, which was a misguided objective. We don't need, and I don't appreciate a character introduced in the fluff that doesn't reflect Space Marine, Space Wolves, or Fenrisian attributes. We need heroes like Ranulf, not ill-disciplined troublemakers like Lukas.

 

As far as TWC as Wolf Guard go, the lower Ld does reflect the challenge of controlling the predator in combat, while the lack of options is a deliberate choice to maintain balance. If TWC could be configured like a WG unit can, then they very definitely would be overpowered, and you'd be silly not to take three full units every game.

 

 

Valerian

 

While there is a Loki aspect to Lukas, I personally think he is more of a placating factor to deal with all the other crap the SW have been portrayed as forever. In the new codex, he is the only real link there is to the old perception of the SW chapter.

[Torin]

IMO TWC are powerful that no doubt. Their main function in my army is simply a distraction. I would normally play 1 TWLord fully pump 2+/3+ FB SS/ WoBorn & with 3 TWC as escort. I play them in my regular list, they do their job that for sure.. if your opponent ignores them.. they are asking for trouble.

 

But in most games, i think out of 30 games i have played only the lord survives of course he have died in several games aswell. Specially going up againts veterans.

[Wispy]

Valerians and Idaho's comments made me giggle. I don't really agree.

 

I love Thunderwolves and they represent what I love most about 40k. In my opinion, 40k falls apart when its taken too seriously. Its at its best when its absurd.

 

Space Wolves don't make sense as a serious concept - they are marines in space but also viking savages, something very difficult for people to grok and take seriously. Too me, they work when you think of them like a Saturday morning cartoon. Trying to make them grim and serious and scary is cutting against the grain, I think. They flow the other way and respecting that has made my army's paint job really come alive.

[Wulfebane]

Space Wolves don't make sense as a serious concept - they are marines in space but also viking savages, something very difficult for people to grok and take seriously. Too me, they work when you think of them like a Saturday morning cartoon. Trying to make them grim and serious and scary is cutting against the grain, I think. They flow the other way and respecting that has made my army's paint job really come alive.

 

I'mma let someone else educate you, but wow, you're like 10 years out of date with the perspective of Space Wolves.

[Wispy]

What's there to protest? They are both viking inspired and also savage. The viking part is undeniable. The Space Wolves also meet every definition of the word' savage.' I think you're the one who hasn't been paying attention for ten years.

 

 

And when I say 'Saturday Morning Cartoon' I'm thinking, like, Justice League or the new Avengers cartoon (with a little more bloodshed :)) . Not Spongebob.

[Stormbrow II]

Overpowered? They suck like crazy, the ws means half your attacks will miss anyway, rending is overrated, they have a huge lack of power weapons, and the points cost is huge

This. And they can't climb stairs. They're not great - I'd rather have more Grey Hunters tbh. Death Cult Assassins? Now there's a dangerous unit.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

What's there to protest? They are both viking inspired and also savage. The viking part is undeniable. The Space Wolves also meet every definition of the word' savage.' I think you're the one who hasn't been paying attention for ten years.

 

 

And when I say 'Saturday Morning Cartoon' I'm thinking, like, Justice League or the new Avengers cartoon (with a little more bloodshed ;)) . Not Spongebob.

 

Have you read Prospero Burns, and to a lesser extent, Battle of the Fang? That's what the Wolves are now: deadly and serious, and very controlled. They're no longer the comedic savages of Ragnar and such.

 

The stairs thing, much like elder Daleks, really hurts them. I've won tournament rounds simply because his Thunderwolf deathstar couldn't get at my Grey Hunters on his objective. And yeah, I absolutely hate DCA, and so does Tony Kopach now. :P

[Wispy]

I liked Prospero Burns, but I ultimately didn't like the Space Wolves portrayed in it. I liked Battle of the Fang's Space Wolves a little more. I didn't care much for the Ragnar books, and they don't mesh with what I'm talking about.

 

I don't know how better explain it. For me, my happy medium is somewhere in between Battle of the Fang and Ragnar. Prospero Burns was getting into the territory where 40k starts getting crushed to death by its own melodrama, and only the meeting between Russ and the protagonist brought it back from teetering over the edge.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Dark eldar poisoned weapons have really nerfed TWC. They just can't stand up to that many armor saves.

 

G :o

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

my Scout Snipers love TWC...take a wound and pinning test in a 8.

 

WLK