sponsra Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Is gonna be about the Emprors children and The Iron Warriors. He writes (very little) about it on the BL blogg today. Any ideas how the story might go? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Heard about this some months ago (or weeks?) But as far as I know, it's about Fulgrim and Perturabo taking their legions on a mission together, and the kind of trouble this will produce. He hinted there will be confrontations because the two legions is so different, and he is going to explore them both in great details. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3042717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 McNeil said he was tired with sympathizable Primarchs so Perturabo will be plain meany. Not a sick man like Curze but more like an apathetical and callous jerk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3042718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Old news is old. It'll be called Angel(s?) Exterminatus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3042719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mage 257 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Old news is old. It'll be called Angel(s?) Exterminatus. Old Joke is Old. :P I hadn't heard about this at all, I really would like to see more of Perturabo as he's not really been given the HH treatment as of yet, and yeah I really hope he is a meanie, I can't envision him any other way and pitting him alongside the greatest perfectionist of the HH should lead to some interesting confrontations ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 McNeil said he was tired with sympathizable Primarchs so Perturabo will be plain meany. Not a sick man like Curze but more like an apathetical and callous jerk. That has always been my impression of him anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Great. Let him write about Emperor's Children and Iron Warriors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The inevitable carping by some UM fans whenever McNeil is mentioned is as annoying as the Matt Ward hating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The inevitable carping by some UM fans whenever McNeil is mentioned is as annoying as the Matt Ward hating. Yeah, but Ward deserves my vitriol. McNeill doesn't. I downloaded the bundled Ventris series to read while I was at Fort Polk for a month in March, and didn't think it was anywhere near as bad as I'd been told. Maybe its because I'm not an Ultra-fan. And yes, his Eldar books are amazing. So I'm looking forward to this one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarker Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hell´s Angels, anyone? :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaze07 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 In my opinion probably the best Neil Roberts piece yet!!!looks awesome!!should be Good!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Another stunning piece of artwork from Roberts. That man is talented! I like Peturabo's armor design, and Forgebreaker looks convincing. So this will be taking place during/after the Legions' fall to Chaos? That's a corrupted bolter that the Emperor's Children legionnaire is firing in the foreground... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teleportman Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 News to me. That drawing is badass, makes me want to make a Perturabo conversion. Really interested to see how they flesh out the IW Primarch so he is more than a cartoony jerk. So far all mentions of him make him out an idiot. ***EDIT*** ust remembered that Perturabo and Fulgrim did work together at least one time. They build together the Perfect Fortress from Deliverance Lost. Sounded like they had good synergy. Looking forwards to seeing how they interact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The inevitable carping by some UM fans whenever McNeil is mentioned is as annoying as the Matt Ward hating. QFT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3043720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The inevitable carping by some UM fans whenever McNeil is mentioned is as annoying as the Matt Ward hating. Yeah, but Ward deserves my vitriol. McNeill doesn't. The funny thing is, I think most of the dislike people have for Matt Ward is unfounded. Yeah, his book is a little OTT, but most of the stuff he wrote existed long before he rephrased it. The rest is just plain people failing to understand the book's contents. The most popular of these is the whole "spiritual liege" thing. The codex says that Ultramarines successors treat him as a spiritual liege. Which, considering the fact that they are descended from Ultramarines gene seed, or in the case of the now 250 or so Second Founding chapters, their founding Marines actually were Ultramarines, so the idea that many of them might consider themselves Ultramarines in everything but name seems pretty reasonable. On the other hand, Graham McNeil's Ultramarines stories are pretty mediocre, and paint the Ultramarines as kinda stupid. So if Ultramarines fans tend to dislike the guy, you can't exactly blame them. The Ultramarines are supposed to be the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters", and McNeil paints them as stumbling morons hidebound by a ludicrously stupid "If A, Then B" instruction manual called the Codex Astartes. McNeill's books take the Codex Astartes and take it from what is supposed to be the most comprehensive tome of military knowledge and wisdom ever compiled, like combining all the military geniuses of history, and turns it into "Warfighting for Dummies", and makes the Ultramarines its most unimaginative doctrinal slaves. The Codex was supposed to empower the Ultramarines. Supposed to be its biggest strength. The reason why it was the "greatest". Not to illustrate them as bumbling idiots who cannot use initiative or come up with their own battle plans. That said, it does seem rather silly to mention how much Graham McNeill boned the Ultramarines novels every time he writes a new book, especially if it isn't about the Ultramarines. If the new McNeill book was a Heresy novel about the Ultramarines, I could see why there would be friction. But I thought Fulgrim was decent and I enjoyed A Thousand Sons. McNeill writes pretty good non-Space Marine characters. I think the Heresy is a decent place for his style given the Remembrancers and other human characters he can use to flesh out the relatively bland and two dimensional characters that Space Marines tend to be (no matter who writes them, unfortunately). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I think the Heresy is a decent place for his style given the Remembrancers and other human characters he can use to flesh out the relatively bland and two dimensional characters that Space Marines tend to be (no matter who writes them, unfortunately). You think ADB's marines are bland? I thought McNeills in ATS and The Outcast Dead (Tagore in particular in the scene with the boy) where fairly interesting. If you dont like ADB's marines, I just dont think you like marines at all. :lol: As for this book, I look forward to it greatly! I enjoy Mr. McNeills second only to ADB's (praise his name) on par with Abnett imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 On the other hand, Graham McNeil's Ultramarines stories are pretty mediocre, and paint the Ultramarines as kinda stupid. So if Ultramarines fans tend to dislike the guy, you can't exactly blame them. The Ultramarines are supposed to be the "greatest of all Space Marine chapters", and McNeil paints them as stumbling morons hidebound by a ludicrously stupid "If A, Then B" instruction manual called the Codex Astartes. McNeill's books take the Codex Astartes and take it from what is supposed to be the most comprehensive tome of military knowledge and wisdom ever compiled, like combining all the military geniuses of history, and turns it into "Warfighting for Dummies", and makes the Ultramarines its most unimaginative doctrinal slaves. The Codex was supposed to empower the Ultramarines. Supposed to be its biggest strength. The reason why it was the "greatest". Not to illustrate them as bumbling idiots who cannot use initiative or come up with their own battle plans. UM are not supposed to be the greatest. While i agree his UM novels are somewhat mediocre, instruction manual looking drones that they have become can be explained with 30k->40k decay that happens everywhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I dunno, I liked ADB's portrayal of Lorgar. He actually made him somewhat sympathetic, which is impressive since Lorgar has always kinda struck me as an emo whiner who threw a tantrum when the Emperor chastised him for being too slow and ineffective in his crusades. ADB at least made Lorgar's temptation to Chaos interesting to read about even though it confirmed exactly what I'd always thought about him. As far as the rest of the Word Bearers? Eh. I don't remember much about them besides their names and what they did, but not anything important about what they were like. Well, I guess other than angry, lol. That isn't really a criticism though. Space Marines aren't very easy characters to write. It's very easy to slip and make them unrealistic-feeling, bland killing machines, or to go the other direction and miss the mark trying to capture the kind of altered perspective that functionally immortal post-human warriors would be. A World Eaters fan should know how that feels. I don't think a good World Eater character has been written yet. I guess we'll see with Butcher's Nails. Angron is a terrible character to be forced to write, lol. He's completely irrational, at every level. None of his actions or motivations have ever made any sense, nor even his existence as a Primarch given command of a legion. Don't get me wrong, I really like the World Eaters' pre-Heresy color scheme. Contemplated doing an army before I dove into my Tall Scale Battle Company. But I'd hate to be saddled with actually having to write a story about them, haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 UM are not supposed to be the greatest. That's strange. Because the back cover of Codex: Ultramarines says, very specifically, "The Ultramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters". It may have even been the reason I used quotation marks when I said it in my first post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Matt Ward adds a biased perspective to make codex read like a propaganda papers of old i guess. It makes sense with all social engineering going on at 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 LOL, no Matt Ward escape here. This is Codex: Ultramarines. Written by Rick Priestley. You know, one of the guys who invented 40K. The Ultramarines have been "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters" for almost 18 years. Matt Ward may not have even been playing 40K when that book was written. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yeah you are right. It's official, UM is the best chapter around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 UM are not supposed to be the greatest. That's strange. Because the back cover of Codex: Ultramarines says, very specifically, "The Ultramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters". It may have even been the reason I used quotation marks when I said it in my first post. Highlighted the important bit. This isn't 40k, it's 30k. The Ultramarines, though cool as hell, are not the greatest Legion. That honour went to the Sons of Horus, at least until Istvaan, and after that event any feelings of 'who is the best Legion?' comes down to personal preference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I dunno, I liked ADB's portrayal of Lorgar. He actually made him somewhat sympathetic, which is impressive since Lorgar has always kinda struck me as an emo whiner who threw a tantrum when the Emperor chastised him for being too slow and ineffective in his crusades. ADB at least made Lorgar's temptation to Chaos interesting to read about even though it confirmed exactly what I'd always thought about him. As far as the rest of the Word Bearers? Eh. I don't remember much about them besides their names and what they did, but not anything important about what they were like. Well, I guess other than angry, lol. That isn't really a criticism though. Space Marines aren't very easy characters to write. It's very easy to slip and make them unrealistic-feeling, bland killing machines, or to go the other direction and miss the mark trying to capture the kind of altered perspective that functionally immortal post-human warriors would be. A World Eaters fan should know how that feels. I don't think a good World Eater character has been written yet. I guess we'll see with Butcher's Nails. Angron is a terrible character to be forced to write, lol. He's completely irrational, at every level. None of his actions or motivations have ever made any sense, nor even his existence as a Primarch given command of a legion. Don't get me wrong, I really like the World Eaters' pre-Heresy color scheme. Contemplated doing an army before I dove into my Tall Scale Battle Company. But I'd hate to be saddled with actually having to write a story about them, haha. You know ADB wanted to write about the World Eaters by himself right? No one forced him. I belive you are a bit harsh and one-eyed on the way you see World Eaters. Of course they can be interesting, and I think when The Betrayer comes out, the way Angron is percived by many will change a great deal for the better. As said earlier in this thread, reading about marines dosen't seem too be something for you. If you read TFH and can't remember any characters but Lorgar, and didn't get anything else from it than: "He actually made him somewhat sympathetic" then you haven't got any of the book i'm afraid. I would recommend the amazing Night Lords trilogy by ADB to you, but I don't know if you're capable of getting anything from those books, which would really be a shame. But who am I to know? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Can't think how anyone who's read "After Deshea" can think that the World Eaters are boring. I mean, yes, there is the question about what the hell the Emperor was doing putting Angron in charge of a legion in that state, but Angron himself was a brilliantly sketched character there, as was Khârn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251012-graham-mcneils-next-hh-novel/#findComment-3044534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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