Warp Quake Juggle

[Vesper]

If a WQ bubble isn't a 'valid' placement for DSing a unit, then you can never trigger WQ. As you can *never* place a unit inside a WQ Bubble.

 

You can, by using Chaos Icons and stuff that bypass WQ.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Vesper

[SeattleDV8]

If a WQ bubble isn't a 'valid' placement for DSing a unit, then you can never trigger WQ. As you can *never* place a unit inside a WQ Bubble.

The inital placement can be anywhere on the table, if you misjudge this placment you suffer the result, a mishap.

No rule stops you from dropping your unit in a 'mishap zone'.

That said the mishap rules force you to place the unit in a valid formation.

Sadly they don't spell out what 'valid' means , but I believe the context is clear.

You can only re-deploy them somewhere without causing another mishap.

Edited May 15, 2012 by SeattleDV8

[Toasterfree]

If a WQ bubble isn't a 'valid' placement for DSing a unit, then you can never trigger WQ. As you can *never* place a unit inside a WQ Bubble.

 

You can, by using Chaos Icons and stuff that bypass WQ.

you do not bypass WQ with icons. if you DS at all with in 12 inches of a unit with WQ on you mishap. you are only affected by WQ if you scatter into it if you drop outside of 12 in, and you are unaffected by WQ if you scatter outside of 12in. scattering is NOT a requirement to be affected by WQ at all.

 

unless you are using the icon to make your entire unit NOT scatter outside of 12 in of WQ

Edited May 15, 2012 by Toasterfree

[Gentlemanloser]

The inital placement can be anywhere on the table, if you misjudge this placment you suffer the result, a mishap.

No rule stops you from dropping your unit in a 'mishap zone'.

That said the mishap rules force you to place the unit in a valid formation.

Sadly they don't spell out what 'valid' means , but I believe the context is clear.

You can only re-deploy them somewhere without causing another mishap.

 

You cannot place the initial DS off the board, or in impassable terrain, or within 1" of an enemy mini.

 

All of these are not 'valid' DS options.

 

A Warp Quake bubble, however, is a valid position for a DS.

 

unless you are using the icon to make your entire unit NOT scatter outside of 12 in of WQ

 

Or unless you're using the flimsy ruling that WQ doesn't trigger unless you scatter...

Edited May 15, 2012 by Gentlemanloser

[Toasterfree]

WQ triggers with it with out scatter.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes, I agree.

 

Some don't. And I don't find that position tenable.

[DarkGuard]

The inital placement can be anywhere on the table, if you misjudge this placment you suffer the result, a mishap.

No rule stops you from dropping your unit in a 'mishap zone'.

That said the mishap rules force you to place the unit in a valid formation.

Sadly they don't spell out what 'valid' means , but I believe the context is clear.

You can only re-deploy them somewhere without causing another mishap.

 

You cannot place the initial DS off the board, or in impassable terrain, or within 1" of an enemy mini.

 

All of these are not 'valid' DS options.

 

A Warp Quake bubble, however, is a valid position for a DS.

 

I'm not particularly sure that that first bit is true. Afterall, can't people place their Drop Pods on top of units and hope they scatter? I believe the advice against it wasn't because the Deep Strike placement was invalid, but rather because the Inertial Guidance System wouldn't move it if a hit was rolled. So can't you place your units there anyway, because while a hit would force a mishap a miss may well land them closer than if you'd placed them nearer? I can't remember the exact wording myself.

[SeattleDV8]

BRB pg. 95.

Frist place one model from the unit anywhere on the table....

Anywhere means anywhere, even if it is a horrible idea.

also 'Nid FAQ

Q: Can a Mawloc choose to Deep Strike onto a point

occupied by an enemy model on purpose in order to

use the Terror from the Deep special rule? (p51)

A: Yes.

 

Nothing stops you from Deep Striking anywhere on the table with the first model.

Except of course the mishap that follows.

Edited May 16, 2012 by SeattleDV8

[Gentlemanloser]

;)

 

I stand corrected!

 

You can DS anywhere (on board. A mishap can also be placed anywhere, except impassable terrain. even on top of other minis.

 

It's valid 'formation' (as in the circle), not valid position.

 

So cuurently, by RAW, you can use a misplace to force a mishap, without needing WQ.

[Morollan]

;)

 

I stand corrected!

 

You can DS anywhere (on board. A mishap can also be placed anywhere, except impassable terrain. even on top of other minis.

 

It's valid 'formation' (as in the circle), not valid position.

 

So cuurently, by RAW, you can use a misplace to force a mishap, without needing WQ.

 

Except the Misplaced result requires you to deploy the unit, which you cannot do if you put it on top of enemy models etc.

[DarkGuard]

Doesn't other models count as impassable terrain for the purposes of movement, deep strike placement etc? So you can't place them there on a mishap?

[Gentlemanloser]

Except the Misplaced result requires you to deploy the unit, which you cannot do if you put it on top of enemy models etc.

 

You have to deploy with the original DS as well...

 

You can deploy on top of another mini. It's 'anywhere' and isn't Impassable terrain. You just auto Mishap when you try. :P

[Morollan]

Except the Misplaced result requires you to deploy the unit, which you cannot do if you put it on top of enemy models etc.

 

You have to deploy with the original DS as well...

 

You can deploy on top of another mini. It's 'anywhere' and isn't Impassable terrain. You just auto Mishap when you try. :)

 

But when you do the original DS you are attempting to deploy the unit and this can go wrong. The Misplace Mishap requires you to actually deploy the unit in a valid deep strike formation. Not the first model. Not some of the unit. Not attempt to deploy the unit. You must deploy it. Mishaps occur before deployment is concluded but the Misplaced Mishap skips that and goes straight to a deployed status, hence no mishaps on a misplaced DS.

[Gentlemanloser]

There's no difference in the rules.

 

Both state 'deploy the unit'.

 

Edit:

 

You can place a mishap in a valid formation, with al minis on the board in a circle. And then find one of them to be within 1" of the enemy. That's a mishap.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Gentlemanloser

[Morollan]

There's no difference in the rules.

 

Both state 'deploy the unit'.

 

Edit:

 

You can place a mishap in a valid formation, with al minis on the board in a circle. And then find one of them to be within 1" of the enemy. That's a mishap.

 

No, because the mishap rules state "if any of the models in a deep striking cannot be deployed... [due to being] within 1" of an enemy model". So you're not deploying them as required by the Misplaced result.

 

Just on a general note, are you just arguing for the sake of the argument or do you genuinely feel that WQ juggling is allowed? Do you honestly believe that the intent of WQ is to automatically destroy any unit that lands within 12" of a Strike Squad?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Morollan

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah, misremembered the Misplace rule. I'll have to reread it when I get a second.

 

I've already stated what I feel on the first page of this thread. But I'll repeat.

 

The DS rules are badly written (like that's a shock to anyone). By RAW, you can misplace a DS into a WQ bubble and Mishap again. And again. And again.

 

That's the RAW.

 

Would I personally ever do such a thing? No. But this is the B&C OR forum, and I'm not here chewing the cud with my mates.

 

The DS rules need ot be sharper (like a *lot* of 40k), and this could easily be resolvd with a simple errata that states something along the lines of you can only mishap once.

 

Until GW pull thier fingers out, the RAW remains that not only does WQ not require a scatter to triger, but that you can use WQ to mishap over and over again.

 

How you indivdually play it, I really don't care. And won't until I stand opposite you. ;)