I was just pondering....

[Lady_Mournival]

So, I was just thinking about chapter foundings, and the relics that get passed on to the new chapter, specifically tda and dreadnought armour. Making the former is extremely difficult and time consuming, making the later is an art lost.

 

So keeping the above in mind, and that Ultramarines (and those of their lineage) spawn the most chapters, how does anyone justify an ultramarine successor having dreads or a large supply of tda? If the ultras (and those of their lineage) have spawned most chapters in existence, the supplies of dreads and tda would have more or less dried out (for the sons of guilliman), leaving the mid to late founding successors with minimal tda & dreads, if any at all.

 

So, where do all these tda suits and dreadnought chassis & sarcophagi come from? Is the mechanicus just continually finding new stores of tda and dreads? Is the supply of new tda suits more than we've been lead to believe? Is there a forgeworld pumping out dread sarcophogai and chassis? Are they salvaging and purifying whatever they can (even from chaos)?

 

A side thought, wouldn't all the above make it seem obvious that legions that took more of a beating & founded less successors (BA, IF, DA, RG, Salamanders, WS) be able to pass on more heirlooms?

 

Just food for thought and many questions.... and sorry if none of that made any sense, College has been such a drain on me (tomorrow is my last day! :lol:).

[Andrew J]

While I have nothing to back it up I have gotten the feeling that those are still produced just that they are very hard to produce and take a long time. Founding a chapter takes a while and I would think they could make a few suits of TDA and maybe one dread while the chapter is forming. They could continue to produce new suits and dreads as the chapter grows. Also any of the early founding chapters are going to be 8-9k years old and so should have had enough time to come up with enough of each in my mind. I would think the new foundings would have very little to none of each.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Ace Debonair]

A side thought, wouldn't all the above make it seem obvious that legions that took more of a beating & founded less successors (BA, IF, DA, RG, Salamanders, WS) be able to pass on more heirlooms?

 

I'd have thought that meant their rare gear also got more of a kicking, too.

 

As for where all the dreads and TDA come from, you raise a good point.

Perhaps there's a small Forgeworld or two dedicated specifically to outfitting the Ultramarines and their kin with Dreads and TDA - Emperor knows it'd be a full-time job!

[Brother Tyler]

I'd guess that the declaration of a new Founding by the High Lords of Terra kicks a whole series of events into action. Among those is the well-known creation of gene-seed for the new Chapter. In addition, the Adeptus Mechanicus shifts into Adeptus Astartes initial operating capability mode, with a number of forge worlds cranking out complements of equipment that the new Chapter(s) will need. This will include power armour, tactical dreadnought armour, dreadnought armour, bolters, ammunition, chainswords, space craft, and all of the other materiel every good Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes needs to establish its fortress monastery, train its battle-brothers, and set off in pursuit of brutally killing the enemies of the Imperium. These will simply be minimum starter quantities, however, and won't necessarily equate to what a long-established Chapter might have. There might only be a few squads worth of suits of tactical dreadnought armour and only a handful of dreadnoughts, while common items such as power armour, bolters, and chainswords will be created in copious amounts.

 

Basically, part of the reason for the number of Foundings being limited to 26 so far is because the logistics behind each Founding are astronomical. When you consider the fact that forge worlds are already cranking out countless amounts of materiel in support of the Imperium's many ongoing wars, crusades, and other applications of military power, the opportunities to shift into dedicated "establish new Space Marine Chapters" mode are few and far between.

 

So while a few gifts might be bestowed on the new Chapter by the parent/training Chapter, the vast majority of equipment will be new and will come from the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

Again, that's just my personal speculation.

[Ecritter]

I'd guess that the declaration of a new Founding by the High Lords of Terra kicks a whole series of events into action. Among those is the well-known creation of gene-seed for the new Chapter. In addition, the Adeptus Mechanicus shifts into Adeptus Astartes initial operating capability mode, with a number of forge worlds cranking out complements of equipment that the new Chapter(s) will need. This will include power armour, tactical dreadnought armour, dreadnought armour, bolters, ammunition, chainswords, space craft, and all of the other materiel every good Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes needs to establish its fortress monastery, train its battle-brothers, and set off in pursuit of brutally killing the enemies of the Imperium. These will simply be minimum starter quantities, however, and won't necessarily equate to what a long-established Chapter might have. There might only be a few squads worth of suits of tactical dreadnought armour and only a handful of dreadnoughts, while common items such as power armour, bolters, and chainswords will be created in copious amounts.

 

Basically, part of the reason for the number of Foundings being limited to 26 so far is because the logistics behind each Founding are astronomical. When you consider the fact that forge worlds are already cranking out countless amounts of materiel in support of the Imperium's many ongoing wars, crusades, and other applications of military power, the opportunities to shift into dedicated "establish new Space Marine Chapters" mode are few and far between.

 

So while a few gifts might be bestowed on the new Chapter by the parent/training Chapter, the vast majority of equipment will be new and will come from the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

Again, that's just my personal speculation.

 

I've always seen it the same way.

[Leonaides]

yup - I agree. Rememebr that just generating sufficient new geneseed requires 50 years, there is a fairly large lead-in time for a new chapter before its new members even get their grubby mitts on a boltgun, let alone fire it in anger...

[Grimbad]

So keeping the above in mind, and that Ultramarines (and those of their lineage) spawn the most chapters, how does anyone justify an ultramarine successor having dreads or a large supply of tda?

 

Really, they shouldn't. Those things are supposed to be rare.

But if you want them, why not say they were claimed as spoils in interlegionary warfare? The Horus Heresy and Badab aren't the only ones, just the biggest.

[SnakeoilSage]

Let's not forget resources "donated" by Chapters that have been destroyed and/or gone renegade. The Imperium would be take back what is theirs and when a new Chapter is formed pass the items along to them. There are precedents for this, such as the Mentors receiving much of their equipment from the failed Star Scorpions Chapter.

[Ace Debonair]

*Common Sense Answer*

 

That makes much more sense than my sleep-deprived, semi-intelligent ramblings, and thusly has my approval. :lol:

[Lysimachus]

It's also worth bearing in mind the newer fluff which suggests the Legions being far larger during and at the end of the Heresy, a far higher percentage of Chapters being 2nd Founding, and therefore presumably having more access to 'relic' type equipment.