Sternguard

[Captain Denaro]

I currently run 1 Sternguard squad and am in the process of building 2 more and was wondering how I should equip them. I've read Darkguard's analysi and various other posts on here and have come up with the following options (all in 10 man squads);

 

1. Power fist and combi-flamer sergeant with 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 combi-flamers and 5 combi-melta (335 pts)

2. Lightning Claw and combi-plasma sergeant with 2 Lascannons and no additional combis (300 pts)

3. Lightning Claw and combi-flamer sergeant with Plasma gun and Heavy Flamer, 1 combi-flamer and 4 combi-meltas (315 pts).

 

I think this gives me a good variety of options from anti-horde to anti-tank to general purpose and fire support. Any advice on the optimum load-outs would be very welcome though.

[DarkGuard]

Hi there. Glad you found the analysis useful, I'll try and be as useful in my comments here. :P

 

The first unit looks fine, although a little expensive for my taste. Will this go in a Drop Pod or a Rhino? If it's the former, then that should be fine, as you've got your melta contingent and flamer contingent, and will split on deployment to take out tanks and infantry. If in a Rhino, then you could probably trim a few points and not really notice any drop in effectiveness. I find that in Rhino squad 8 man unit are fine, and anymore turns them into a bit of a point sink. Also, while the combi-flamers are cool, the heavy flamers are normally good enough. So if you were to put them in a Rhino I'd drop two guys and the combi-flamers, saving 65pts. Would also give room for an IC, Sternguard make good bodyguards.

 

With the second, I can kind of see where you're going with it, but not too sure about the direction of it. You've got one combi, normally with combis you went them en masse to make an impact. But then you've got two lascannons, so you're paying points for a combi that may not fire, likewise for a melee weapon you may not use, as you can't assume you'll always want to combat squad. IMO, fire support squads are best at 5-6 men with the ranged weapons and no extra upgrades. Keeps points down, lets them function well enough, and easier to fit in cover as well. You've spent 300pts on a unit that may just sit back and only ever fire 2 lascannons, not the best investment of points.

 

And finally, the third. I'll admit this is my least favourite, as it has little focus. IMO Marines work best with a focus, and then versatility on top. For Tactical squads that could be matching the combi with the special and making the heavy do something different. For Assault squads it's taking two flamers but then a power fist as well. For Sternguard, I believe that in frontline squads its best achieved by taking combis that fill in what they lack. now as you have a heavy flamer, you don't lack anti-cover, so the combi-flamers aren't that worth it. Also, the plasma gun just doesn't synch well with the unit and it's goals, tat would be better as a couple of combi-plasmas if you really wanted to have a bit of everything. Also, a power fist may be better than the claw. And once again, if in a Rhinos consider dropping a couple of bodies, if in a Drop Pod 10 is fine.

 

Personally I'd take 1 and half of 2, or two of 1, if I had to make the choice. But you've provided some interesting Sternguard configs there, especially that 3rd, thank you for that! :)

[Captain Denaro]

Thanks for the reply Darkguard. I'm happy with the first squad and thanks for pointers on maximising it's efficiency - if Drop podding stick with the full complement, if in a Rhino drop out the 2 combi-flamers.

 

The idea of the 2nd squad was basically to Combat squad it every time. The sergeant would join the other squad to provide anti-infantry cover for the Lascannons. I'm going to paint up 10 models anyway as Deathwatch, so I might be better off making it 2 individual kill-teams, perhaps with the 2nd team armed with plasma guns and combis but I get your point about the size of the unit - too big and expensive as a 10 men block. Or I might just drop the sergeants equipment and keep it bare bones as I'm unlikely to realistically field all 10 anyway.

 

The 3rd unit is tricky - before I read your article it consisted of 2 plasma guns, 2 combi-flamers and 3 combi- meltas which I found through experience to be totally impractical. That's why I added in the Heavy Flamer. Its also the only painted Sternguard I presently have and is centred around its sergeant which I love. He was originally armed simply with a bolt gun but I've done a simple conversion and now he has the lightning claw and combi-flamer. The idea was that it would be a multi role unit but I get your point about focus, so perhaps I'll swap out the plasma gun for a melta and that'll give me the option to combat squad or drop out models for a 7 or 8 man unit. Alternatively I could change the combi-meltas to combi-plasmas I suppose, but that many plasmas firing at once spells multiple disastrous 1 rolls to me!

[DarkGuard]

No worries, glad I could be of help.

 

With the second squad, I'm not really a fan of it as it is as I'm not really a fan of units that are designed to always combat squad. This is of course is more a personal preference and depends largely on the person, but my belief that combat squads is fine, as an option, rather than a primary strategy. This has mostly come about because of Kill Point games. In objective games combat squads are pretty good, you can increase the amount of scoring units you have, the amount of enemy units you can target, while limiting the amount of your units that your enemy can kill. Also, in list building it means you less force org slots and also, with non-Veteran squads, spend less points paying for Sergeants. And the only bad points are that half of the unit won't be in a transport, and they're arguably more fragile, or at least seem to be. It's also easier to lose weapon upgrades etc as you have less models to allocate wounds onto.

 

But the main problem is in Annihilation games. These games revolve around kill points, so by combat squadding you split a rather durable unit into two, smaller, less durable units, that present easier kill points. Now some would argue that in list building you shouldn't overly worry about kill points as that can impair army functionality, and that's true to an extent. However, when you're actually at the game and breaking up units it does have a psychological effect, as your opponent sees that there's more KPs and that they may be easier to get. However, if you don't split the unit, you now have a unit that's not operating at peak efficiency, and often that results in there being a ton of wasted points there, so it impairs their impact on the field and your army as a whole. So that's basically why I don't like units that most always combat squad. Some people get great success out of it, but I prefer having units that either don't combat squad or have the option but don't have to to perform.

 

As I said earlier though it can be handy to save points and conserve force org slots, but I feel that while the latter applies to Sternguard, the former doesn't. Two unupgraded 5 man Sternguard units is the same as one 10 man unit. The difference between them though is that with the former you can have two transports, and also more special or heavy weapons than the latter. Of course this will drive points costs up, but then you'll have two focusses units with transports as opposed to the potential of having an unfocussed unit or having one unit without a transport.

 

So your second unit can work, and I see the merit in it, and I understand you want to combat squad it. I'm just giving my reasons as to why I suggested dropping them 5 models, it's just a personally preference of mine that I don't rely on combat squads and so a fire support squad like that would have less bodies in my list. I'd drop it into two smaller units that are more focussed, but that's my preference.

 

 

With the third unit, if that's the one you've had the most experience with, you use it at the moment and it's provided good results then don't change it, keep it how it is. Don't fix what isn't broke.

 

Just bear in mind that it is unfocussed, and that can be a weakness as well as a strength, much like how focus can be a weakness of a unit when they come up against something that hits their "blind spot" as it were. Your squad can handle many targets, and will be especially good against MEQ and TEQ units, more so than the other units you've posted. Maybe add a couple of combi-plasmas, some people have had great success with midfield Sternguard units operating with plasma weaponry, and fortune favours the brave after all! :P

[Stormshadow]

My opinion has always been that you can’t go wrong with Sternguards. Give them whatever combi weapons you like, they still have their special ammo to balance everything in your favor. The only question is “How are they riding into battle?” and this will depend on the rest of your army. Trading there bolters for special weapons is always a thinker though, the heavy flamer is the only easy pick of the bunch. But I think that Lascannons and Missile launchers are better used in other squads. The Plasma cannon and HF can often be used together with the shots from the rest of the squad. I always tend to go with the HF or only combi weapons however, and only put them in pods or Land raiders.

[Captain Denaro]

Thanks again for the input Darkguard and for your comments Stormshadow - you're right Sternies are exceptional, I just want to get the absolute most out of the squads at the least cost. I normally put them in a Drop pod, as I feel Rhinos are too fragile as they tend to have to soak up too much fire. Never tried a Land Raider, like the thought if it though especially with a Captain or SC. 

 

Again I see your point Darkguard about squad 2 and fluff wise Deathwatch "feel" better to me in small squad, so I'll make that one Lascannon kill-team and the other Plasma/combi-plasma kill-team. For squad 3 I can either field it as a flamer/melta or flamer/plasma squad.

[DarkGuard]

If you're fielding them in Pods then why the lascannons? Or is that a unit sitting in your backfield?

 

Also, have you considered adding locator beacons to the Pods and a Libby with Gate to ferry one around? Could help you get over your lack of mobility once the Pod lands.

[Captain Denaro]

Yes the Lascannons will sit back and probably only be fielded with Kantor so they can sit and hold an ojective. Locator Beacons are also well worth the investment when fielding deep strikers although I only have 2 pods so that's not too often. I've always found Librarians a bit underwhelming tbh, although I know many players rave about them. Force Dome will make the squad a bit more durable though and as you say Gate for mobility so I'll look at it again.

[DarkGuard]

Librarians are more used for Null Zone and they're Hood than anything else, although the firepower from Avenger, mobility from Gate or even the protection from Dome are handy powers. Of course, with my luck my Librarians never Hood anything and always get Hooded, and they're certainly not something you should go out of your way to get. But they're good for their points and I find their utility meshes really well with Sternguard, better than any generic HQ IMO.

 

I'm glad you've found some configs you like, best of luck and let us know how they work out. I may have to do some changes in my Tactica then. ;)

[Stormshadow]

I won a small tournament a while back using Lysander and 10 Sternguards in a Land Raider. They had 2 Heavy flamers and 8 combi meltas. The attack bikes and other parts of this army were crucial to this tactic, but everything played out nicely. I don’t remember much of the battles, but the daemon army didn’t stand a chance. So I can recommend the Land Raider :D

 

As DG knows I have been thinking about an army that would use Gate to transport Sternguards and TH/SS Terminators. I would use scout bikes instead of pods though. The scouts live longer and next turn you can move them 24” in another direction to redeploy your Sternguards.

[DarkGuard]

That's funny, I find Pods to be more survivable. AV12 can be a pain to get through even if they are open topped, and they often pose no threat so people don't shoot at them so long as they're not sitting on their objectives. Scout Bikers bring grenade launchers though and meltabombs, so bit more threat, but I find their 4+ save, even with T5 does them no favours. To each their own I suppose. :)