Breaking of the Legions

[Lagbenektelse]

Was curious if there had been more recent material dealing with the politics behind the breaking of the legions. Index Astartes has Dorn, Jaghatai, and Vulkan opposing the reorganization into chapters. The supporters would be Guilliman, Ferrus Manus, and Corax. The obvious issue is that at this point (avoiding spoilers) there appears to be a a disparity in the support for the fracture. Thoughts?

[Clewz]

Ferrus Manus had died by then

[Captain Idaho]

Was curious if there had been more recent material dealing with the politics behind the breaking of the legions. Index Astartes has Dorn, Jaghatai, and Vulkan opposing the reorganization into chapters. The supporters would be Guilliman, Ferrus Manus, and Corax. The obvious issue is that at this point (avoiding spoilers) there appears to be a a disparity in the support for the fracture. Thoughts?

 

The original background hand Dorn, Russ and Vulkan opposing the breaking up of the Legion, with Ferrus Manus, Corax and Guilliman supporting the idea.

 

Things have changed; now we are told it is Jaghatai Khan instead of Ferrus Manus. I believe this is in the latest Codex books now.

 

However, the Heresy series is shaping up to be quite different to the Index Astartes and Codex material, so we can bet on the breaking up of the Legions not being quite so clean cut. I can imagine it ending up to be a concession Guilliman makes in return for support from the other institutions of the Imperium who are crucial to it's existance.

[Legatus]

IIRC the only source that had specified any particular reesistance to the breaking up of the Legions had been the Index Astartes of the Black Templars, which named Dorn, Russ and Vulkan as opposing the idea while Guilliman, Manus and Corax were supporting it. The Index Astartes of the Crimson Fists merely mentions that Dorn was initially opposed to the idea, and the Index Astarets of the Imperial Fists themselves barely mentions it, instead describing a period of pain glove usage and the Iron Cage incident before Dorn accepts it.

 

The texts from the Index Astartes Black Tempars were repeated in the Codex Black Templars, but here Ferrus Manus had been replaced with Jagathai Khan supporting the splitting of the Legions. (Codex Black Templars, p. 6)

[Aegnor]

Don't forget that there are players here beyond just the Legions. After the Heresy in general, and the assault on Terra in particular, there was general agreement among all of the Imperial institutions that a Legion was too powerful a body to be under one man's control. The Primarchs and Astartes who resisted this idea were probably the only people in the whole Imperium who did so. So it wasn't just Guilliman, the Khan and Corax vs Dorn, Russ and Vulkan; it was Dorn, Russ and Vulkan vs the other three, plus the Council of Terra, plus what was left of the Imperial Army, plus the Mechanicus and their Legio Titans.

 

When you look at the story that's emerging from the Heresy, it's of mankind forging these living weapons that they actually can't control, and then being bitten badly when those weapons decide they don't want to take orders from puny humans. That's the lever Chaos grabs to turn Horus and many of the others. There would have been a big impulse to get rid of the Astartes altogether, the same way humanity had rid itself of the Steel Men - like we have been with nuclear weapons or someone is who owned a group of vicious guar dogs but then has been mauled by one of them. That in turn would have led to a second round of civil war The compromise Guilliman and others struck upon, of a roughly 1000 man chapters, with no navy, was probably the only workable solution that wouldn't end in war.