captain sox Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Hi everyone. Just a questions of curiosity *please see my avatar*. What's the story behind the feathers on some of the Dark Angels bits in the Veterans box. The powersword and some of the shoulder pads have them, and I was interested to know what, if any, meaning is behind them? thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Its a throwback to the original Deathwing story, known as the Plains World incident, where the colour of armour was changed from black to bone. Basically a single squad of DW return to their recruiting world of a native indian (American) flavour, find it under Genestealer control and messed up them all. In the process they paint their armour bone in their native tradition, and adorn it in the native tradition. DW adopted this scheme to honour this squad. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tengo Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yeahh it's a reference to the native american style that was more prominent in DA themes a while back, due to the idea that our recruits came from worlds made up of native american style headhunting tribes. There's less emphasis on it now, it is mentioned briefly in the codex, but the feathers are more or less the last remainder of the idea. I'm not too keen on the theme as a whole, or even the feathers so much, but the feathers are far and few between, plus, I can reconcile it with the idea of feathers from angels wings xD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yeah, basically, what's already been said, we used to have a Native American theme. Its not very heavily played upon anymore. Often times, at least I've noticed, that the Dark Angels feel a certain loyalty to their planet of origin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbeer Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 As a long running DA's player i still use feathers and Native American petroglyphs on my PA's, TDA's and dreadnoughts. some of my captains and dreads have plains world names on their shoulder or knee pads and feathers and skulls on their weaponry. Deathwing (the story) is a powerful tale of commitment to our roots and the duty, and of how our decisions affect us an eternity later. It clenched into my memory as if i had taken the run with cloud runner to meet the warriors from the sky. if you can make a search for it. it's a very recommended read for a DA's player. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Very un-sherman alexie of you polar bear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbeer Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Very un-sherman alexie of you polar bear. ^_^ ? what? recommending the read? excuse me for my English by the way! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 No i think you misunderstand. I wasnt commenting at all on your choice of reading material. As it turns out im a very big fan of americn indian literature. Within that "genre" there is a school of thought that tries to embrace the tradtional naming achetypes such as, little bear, red hawk, etc youve heard all the tropes. Their is another school of thought which says that these names are outdated and need to retired, so that the world doesn't see indians and indian culture as a "backward" culture, or something to that effect. Sherman alexie is a contemporary american indian author who espouses just such a view. I was merely trying to provide a foil to the type of story you had just suggested. It was a poor attempt at an inside joke. Sorry for the tangent. And by the way your english is perfect as far as i can tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 My rationale of the feathers being worn in the current timeline is that it's simply a nod to the Plainsworld incident. Deathwing member may wear them to honor their forebears. It is after all not only the reason they now have bone colored armor (or ash white as the story goes) but also the origins of the name "Deathwing" is general. The story of course is quite old and I believe predates some DA fluff being fleshed out. Aside from the feathers which are typical enough for the above reason, I'd say based on the more established current fluff, it would be very atypical for any member of the DA to retain so much of his former culture, no matter where they were recruited from. However, if they were to advance to the esteemed Deathwing and be given the honor of donning their own personal heraldry, perhaps they might incorporate something of their past in some minor way - perhaps even a trinket of some sort. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 My rationale of the feathers being worn in the current timeline is that it's simply a nod to the Plainsworld incident. Deathwing member may wear them to honor their forebears. It is after all not only the reason they now have bone colored armor (or ash white as the story goes) but also the origins of the name "Deathwing" is general. The story of course is quite old and I believe predates some DA fluff being fleshed out. Aside from the feathers which are typical enough for the above reason, I'd say based on the more established current fluff, it would be very atypical for any member of the DA to retain so much of his former culture, no matter where they were recruited from. However, if they were to advance to the esteemed Deathwing and be given the honor of donning their own personal heraldry, perhaps they might incorporate something of their past in some minor way - perhaps even a trinket of some sort. I don't know... a lot of chapters seem to adopt practises of their homeworld... and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the issues that the DAs only recruited from this 'Native American' planet? Then they realised that this was a risk to the chapters future (After the Plains world incident.) and so started fishing in other ponds... This being the case I can easily see some practises being adopted by the Dark Angels and while they may have dropped out of style some die-hards, oddballs or recruits from that planet may well still carry out such practises and be permitted by the chapter to do so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 No, I think you are correct, that's how the story goes, so it's feasible. I'm sure it can be spun however you like. I can't remember the exact reference, but I felt like Angels of Darkness gave me the impression that they more or less cast away their old lives when they become aspirants. I mean, they do even change their names after all. Yet they certainly don't forget their home worlds, as one of the battle brothers hailed from Priscina V. EDIT: Or maybe I got that impression from the lexicanum DA page, which says "Each recruit is thoroughly screened, and from the moment he is accepted into the Chapter as a Space Marine his past becomes irrelevant." It's sourced as coming from the Codex Astartes (which dates to 2002). The Deathwing expansion to Space Hulk predates that by 12 years. Fluff was certainly still being cobbled together in 1990. Also, I totally forgot, 4th edition DA codex eludes to the story actually being simply that, a story. The codex also omits any notion that it was the only recruiting world. But like I said, it can be spun however you want to do it for your own army and/or lore. Nothing in this universe is totally definite. Lexicanum seems to make the leap that the color change is really because of their hunt for the fallen and that the legends simply serve to give brothers who do not know of such secrets something to believe... they reference the codex, but I'm not seeing it written so plainly in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 As a long running DA's player i still use feathers and Native American petroglyphs on my PA's, TDA's and dreadnoughts. some of my captains and dreads have plains world names on their shoulder or knee pads and feathers and skulls on their weaponry. Deathwing (the story) is a powerful tale of commitment to our roots and the duty, and of how our decisions affect us an eternity later. It clenched into my memory as if i had taken the run with cloud runner to meet the warriors from the sky. if you can make a search for it. it's a very recommended read for a DA's player. :D Wow! I think you might take this game of little toy soldiers on a make believe battlefield maybe a little too seriously? While I agree that there are some redeeming qualities and things you can learn about life from Warhammer 40K, it's still a game meant to be played between a couple buddies while eating pretzels and drinking good beer. You might be better served seeking deeper meaning to life somewhere else... The Native American iconography of the Dark Angels fills an interesting void, if you will, in the background of Space Marines. Each chapter recruits from specific places the qualities that best reflect that chapter. Ultramarines have Olympic style games, Space Wolves take barbarians, etc. The only downside is that the Native American background qualities (aka, "The Noble Savage") has been pushed away and retcon'ed to Dark Angels being at first, Warrior Monks, then later a medieval Knight Order. To tell the truth, I don't think there is a Chapter out there that has had it's history/background recon'ed as much as the Dark Angels. It'll be interesting to see what GW has up it's sleeve for this incarnation of the Dark Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3045823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbeer Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 No i think you misunderstand. I wasnt commenting at all on your choice of reading material. As it turns out im a very big fan of americn indian literature. Within that "genre" there is a school of thought that tries to embrace the tradtional naming achetypes such as, little bear, red hawk, etc youve heard all the tropes. Their is another school of thought which says that these names are outdated and need to retired, so that the world doesn't see indians and indian culture as a "backward" culture, or something to that effect. Sherman alexie is a contemporary american indian author who espouses just such a view. I was merely trying to provide a foil to the type of story you had just suggested. It was a poor attempt at an inside joke. Sorry for the tangent. And by the way your english is perfect as far as i can tell. oh ok! i see. no problem, i tough just that it was some dark angels novel author (or a copyright call B) :D )... You know, those names and the general N. A. theme speak to me of a world (universe?) where humans relied on nature without harming it, and the respectful brotherhood with animal spirits and the essence of earth itself. a mindset i can totally relate to. gotta search for this Sherman Alexie and read some of his works. Back on topic, the presence of trophies and in this case feathers in armor is also related to the way soldiers have ever decorated their gear and weaponry from "born to kill" to "Memphis Belle". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3046896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I really liked the Deathwing story when I finally got my hands on it. You can purchase it as an e-short from the Black Library website, and for a DA player I recommend you do. It doesn't fit perfectly with current fluff, but in spirit I think it does, and you can use a bit of imagination to smooth over the discrepancies. :) I agree with Vazzy as well that the sense of concern and loyalty for their homeworld and groups of origin is something that seems to have been retained and worked into more recent DA stories, eg Angels of Darkness and Piscina IV, and even, I suppose, how the DA react to the treachery and then loss of Caliban in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3046996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Company Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 No, I think you are correct, that's how the story goes, so it's feasible. I'm sure it can be spun however you like. I can't remember the exact reference, but I felt like Angels of Darkness gave me the impression that they more or less cast away their old lives when they become aspirants. I mean, they do even change their names after all. Yet they certainly don't forget their home worlds, as one of the battle brothers hailed from Priscina V. EDIT: Or maybe I got that impression from the lexicanum DA page, which says "Each recruit is thoroughly screened, and from the moment he is accepted into the Chapter as a Space Marine his past becomes irrelevant." It's sourced as coming from the Codex Astartes (which dates to 2002). The Deathwing expansion to Space Hulk predates that by 12 years. Fluff was certainly still being cobbled together in 1990. Also, I totally forgot, 4th edition DA codex eludes to the story actually being simply that, a story. The codex also omits any notion that it was the only recruiting world. But like I said, it can be spun however you want to do it for your own army and/or lore. Nothing in this universe is totally definite. Lexicanum seems to make the leap that the color change is really because of their hunt for the fallen and that the legends simply serve to give brothers who do not know of such secrets something to believe... they reference the codex, but I'm not seeing it written so plainly in there. Taking what you said there, I see it, more as one of the stories that are taught to the aspirants, as a way of telling them about the fall of Caliban, with out really telling them about the fallen... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3047030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbeer Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 You might be better served seeking deeper meaning to life somewhere else... i take wisdom from where i can find it... :( Re reading the post i can see why you think that i take too seriously the story/game but i don't, i might have said that it was an enjoyable tale and a good read for us all, but assuming it was night impossible to get the tale of deathwing (wrong too) i tried to convey the drama and impact of the story to the young ones. i find endearing selecting a chapter that suits your points of view or your tastes literarily, artistically and visually as we do on our daily lives when choosing clothes and gismos. :) anyway, you have a point there and it is the many changes we have had of our chapter's story. knights, monks, Indians/headhunters. what´s next, masons?.. i better don´t give ideas.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3048362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 anyway, you have a point there and it is the many changes we have had of our chapter's story. knights, monks, Indians/headhunters. what´s next, masons?.. i better don´t give ideas.... 10,000+ years of history will give you quite a few anachronist habits, rituals and fetishes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251203-whats-with-the-feathers/#findComment-3048383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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