Dunn and McNeil @ Salute 2012

[Liquidice]

Greetings,

 

A member of Bell of lost souls posted about a conversation he had with McNeil and Dunn at Salute 2012.

Linky

 

Warning** Below contains spoilers, and I didn't write it

 

"First up, Iron Hands stuff. These guys are my favourite so they were the focus of my questioning.

 

After the death of Ferrus Manus….. some Iron Hands turn renegade! Boom! Acoording to Christian Dunn, they start to think that if Ferrus was so easily manipulated and taken out then their faith in him was misplaced and they start to look to Horus as a symbol of strength and leadership.

Chaos Iron Hands = awesome.

 

I said that the story of how the Iron Hands deal with the death of their Primarch would be a great story. Boom! Mr Dunn told me not to worry. The story goes that the Legion becomes fractured and there are disparate groups of Iron Hands roaming the galaxy carrying out hit and run attacks on the traitor forces taking their revenge and kicking ***.

Now, here is where it gets interesting. It turns out there was an Iron Hand on Terra at the time of the Isstvan attack. He implied he was one of the crusader host from ‘The Outcast Dead’. Rogal Dorn gives this guy a mission. To go out into the galaxy and gather up the many elements of his Legion and bring them back to Terra to bolster the defences. However, when he meets his brothers he thinks maybe they are doing a more useful job out in space kicking traitor ***. Boom!

 

Then I asked about Ferrus Manus’ head. Weird question I know but I’m thinking if he has a bit of necron in him then maybe he isn’t really dead. He smiled at me and said they do have some plans for the head of Ferrus Manus! Boom! They are definitely not bringing him back but the head is gonna pop up again.

 

There is an upcoming audio drama. It is the story of the very first meeting between Maclador and the Emperor. Boom! I’m looking forward to some more Emperor action.

 

I asked Graham Mcneil about his upcoming stuff and he was very excited about what he was writing now, angel Exterminatus. It is a story with both the Emperors Children and the Iron Warriors. He said it started out as a story about the Emperors Children with an appearance from the Iron Warriors. But he was having such a good time writing about Perturabo that they have ended up taking over. He spoke about Perturabo at some length and how much of a craftsman he is and an artist but how he and his Legion get the dirty jobs of garrisoning worlds and don’t get the glory of the other Legions. This creates such a great bitterness in him that after the events on his home planet he has no real choice but to side with Horus. Graham McNeil was very excited about this story and if he can get that on to the page they we are in for a belter of a book.

 

Lastly I asked why there are no Wolves on Fenris? Mr McNeil smiled. I asked if they were, mutated Fenrisians, mutated Space Wolves or manifestations of the warp. He wouldn’t say. He just said that he and Dan Abnett have discussed it and the issue will be brought up again but I get the feeling it will never be definitively answered and we will always be left wondering"

[Son of Rawl]

That Iron Hand news is just....

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o340/MrHavoc_2008/full_of_win_RE_Justin_Bieber_Hit_With_Water_Bottle-s694x530-84974-1.jpg

[Billuriye]

You would expect Iron Hands loyalists would go full Unforgiven.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm glad we're getting some love, but. . . . traitor Hands? That just doesn't fit with their concept.

[Legatus]

That also somewhat diminishes the back story of the Dark Angels. If a portion of them turning traitor was not an extremely unusual and shameful event, then their dealing with that incident doesn't really make sense.

[Billuriye]

That also somewhat diminishes the back story of the Dark Angels. If a portion of them turning traitor was not an extremely unusual and shameful event, then their dealing with that incident doesn't really make sense.

 

It makes sense in Iron Hands creed. They are Darwinist to extreme and Ferrus just got eliminated.

[Legatus]

I meant that the way the Dark Angels deal with their incident would make no sense. Sorry if that was too ambiguous. If other Legions had significant numbers of theirs turn and side with Horus, then a force of Dark Angels turning would not have been something that would have to be hidden at all costs.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

I meant that the way the Dark Angels deal with their incident would make no sense. Sorry if that was too ambiguous. If other Legions had significant numbers of theirs turn and side with Horus, then a force of Dark Angels turning would not have been something that would have to be hidden at all costs.

Different Legions, different ways of dealing with things.

[Týr]

I meant that the way the Dark Angels deal with their incident would make no sense. Sorry if that was too ambiguous. If other Legions had significant numbers of theirs turn and side with Horus, then a force of Dark Angels turning would not have been something that would have to be hidden at all costs.

Different Legions, different ways of dealing with things.

 

I agree with different Legions deal with such things in different ways.

But perhaps the Iron Hands werejust more complete and eliminated every traitor and every tace of them. As far as what we "know" the Dark Angels had a large bunch of their traitors to survive, and carry their story down through the milennia.

[Týr]

The thing about the Iron Hands really made my day. It's gonna be so exciting to read about how a Legion reacts to the loss of it's Primarch and highest ranking members.

Wasn't the Iron Hands present during the battle of Tallarn? or have that been flushed from current fluff?

[Son of Rawl]

They still their as far as we can tell, except that Tallarn may in fact be a desert already, this was from a quip in False Gods I believe.

 

I like the direction of the Iron Hands are going, think about it, your father and leader is dead, your most venerated members are dead, you have been betrayed by everyone at Istvaan and have no clue who to trust, including yourselves.

[Legatus]

I like the direction of the Iron Hands are going, think about it, your father and leader is dead, your most venerated members are dead, you have been betrayed by everyone at Istvaan and have no clue who to trust, including yourselves.

So, join the guy who just killed your father. Makes perfect sense.

[Greyall]

I like the direction of the Iron Hands are going, think about it, your father and leader is dead, your most venerated members are dead, you have been betrayed by everyone at Istvaan and have no clue who to trust, including yourselves.

So, join the guy who just killed your father. Makes perfect sense.

 

True...it would make more sense if they went purely renegade, no affilitation with either the Imperium or Horus. But since it's clearly been said that the 8-pointed star is now their favourite element of decoration, I guess one can explain it with the hot logic that drives the Hands. They're very prone to feel true hatred towards a lot of things, especially weakness. With their Primarch and brothers having proven to be weak (according to their logic), it's not that far fetched to have them suffer a mental breakdown.

 

I see how this might not sit well with everyone, but father-son hate is not unheard of, and it's certainly made easier in a war-like and extremist environment. Look at our own Earth's antiquity.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That argument falls apart, Greyall, when you consider the Hands' perspective on the other Legions. Their IA article states pretty clearly that they don't blame their losses on Isstvan on their own weakness; its the fault of the Ravens and the Sallies and THEIR weakness. If only Corax and Vulkan had had the guts to follow Ferrus, to press on and face down Fulgrim and Horus, then things would have turned out differently...

[Billuriye]

That just shows how they view other legions. It doesn't offer any insight about themselves. It doesn't really invalidate Greyall. I bet they loathe themselves the most allowing their weakness to take hold over them. Explains the over mechanization in the name of purging the weak.

[Greyall]

Well, that's true, I didn't mean to say that would be true for the whole Legion but, the Iron Hands being extremists to begin with, it's acceptable that a few of them take it one step further.

 

Your point is true for today's Legion and surely for its majority after Isstvan, of course they'd kill the first legionnaire that spoke ill of Ferrus...unless said legionnaire rebelled before that. =)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That just shows how they view other legions. It doesn't offer any insight about themselves. It doesn't really invalidate Greyall. I bet they loathe themselves the most allowing their weakness to take hold over them. Explains the over mechanization in the name of purging the weak.

 

That's just the thing -- they don't see themselves as weak! You completely missed the point I was trying to make.

[Greyall]

Like Billuriye said, if they don't see themselves as weak, why would they make themselves stronger? If an Iron Hand who still has flesh arms loses a duel against an enemy champion who proves to be physically stronger than him, the first thing he'll do is to haul his angsty, self-chastising self into the closest workshop and get a new, shinier, piston-powered pair of arms.

 

And he'll do this while the rest of him company nods in complete agreement that he should've been stronger (as in, more filled with metal) to face the enemies of Mankind.

 

Don't take 'weak' literally, mate. 'Not good enough' works just as well when the Iron Hands aim for the very top.

[Aqatone]

Can this guy stop saying Boom! jesus.

[Perrin]

I'm more excited about the origins of Malcador audio drama B)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I've typed, deleted, re-typed, deleted, etc five different responses and every one of them will see just become a circular argument. Suffice to say, as an Iron Hands player and fan, I will step out of this discussion by saying that its a horrible idea, and one that I dearly hope never sees print. It goes against their fluff -- not just their history, but one of the defining points of the Chapter in the 41st Millennium -- and needs to be seriously re-thought out.

[Olis]

It goes against their fluff -- not just their history, but one of the defining points of the Chapter in the 41st Millennium -- and needs to be seriously re-thought out.

 

But this literature in question (should the source prove absolutely correct) is set in the Horus Heresy - could it not be the case that this event, theoretically, ten thousand years in the Iron Hands' past affects and feeds their character as a chapter ten thousand years later?

 

Personally, I'd be inclined to read the book in question before passing judgement. However, that statement is made in the mind of a man who isn't an Iron Hands fan, someone who can't quite sympathise with you. I do, however, empathise.

[sponsra]

I'm more excited about the origins of Malcador audio drama :D

 

Word to that, Comon! The first meeting between Malcodor and the Emperor. That´s the thing to discuss here!!!

[Doghouse]

I like the direction of the Iron Hands are going, think about it, your father and leader is dead, your most venerated members are dead, you have been betrayed by everyone at Istvaan and have no clue who to trust, including yourselves.

So, join the guy who just killed your father. Makes perfect sense.

 

It does if you look at the mentality of the IH though mate. The hardest bloke in an army of people that are obsessed with eliminating weakness just got tabled by his brother proving he was weak and not worthy of being their leader.

The guy that just cut his head off on the other hand is currently working with the powerful Warmaster Horus to retake take the mantle of the Imperium from their father who has also shown weakness by allowing the rebellion to happen in the first place.

 

I really like the direction this little rumour is taking the IH as it gives then much more depth and character.

[Ironwrought Huw]

As I said in the news/rumours topic on this, I'm not really over the moon about this proposed direction for the IH if it's true. But - I am willing to reserve judgement until after I've read it.

 

I'm not deluding myself that the Iron Hands were whiter-than-white, and had no traitors - but to me it just seems like they're treading on the DA's turf. Maybe that's why the IH are so "death to traitors", they managed to destroy all of the rebels (secretly, before anyone found out), and their attitude is simply their way of coping/repenting for the sins of their brothers.

 

My real problem is that the IH aren't getting any Heresy action before this, aside from what was in Fulgrim. So far in the Heresy series, the IH sole appearance has them show up as a group of 2 dimensional, bland and idiotic characters, who's sole purpose was to die in Fulgrim. On top of that - traits that arrived post Heresy were written about (Iron Fathers, mass bionics), and at the same time other features the IH are famed for got little, if anything written about them. For a Legion renouned for it's technical ability and links to the mechanicus, I found it... odd, that other than Ferrus, the character we heard the most about was a pretty generic captain (what, not techmarines?).

 

TL;DR-

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the Iron Hands are going to get their background changed - I'd prefer it to be done properly and carefully - rather than suddenly and seemingly at random. I'm not against change, and the Legion certainly needs large areas of it's fluff filling in (like what happens in-between the someone getting recruited and becoming a fully fledged marine, post Heresy - do Iron Fathers replace techmarines and chaplains or just chaplains?) - I just want it to be done properly, and not in a way that screws up or contradicts the current fluff (which I'll admit I love).

 

>Meh< if all else fails I suppose I can always pretend I never read it, and go back to rocking back and forth in a corner whilst chewing on my battered copy of Index Astartes 3 ;)