Looking in to Grey Knights

[Azzael]

Hello all, as I said before I’m looking in to Grey knights. I have been playing 40k for about two years as Tau and got a box of GK Terminators off my mate for my birthday.

 

So I have read some army list and the rules and was just want to say “Hi” and also ask for help in what else do I need to start my Gk army off? Or even what else I might need to buy? Just for a nice 1500pt army or close to.

 

I do vs Space wolfs, Chaos, and Orks. Oh and also Dark elder.

 

I have played against GK before and got smacked so looking forward to turning that around.

Thank you

[breng77]

It really depends on what type of army you want to build. There are very few bad units in the codex.

[The Holy Heretic]

The keywords will often be psycannons, psybolts, psyfleman and halberds.

[Azzael]

I have not really thought of what army to bulid. I do love the look of the Terminator. So something around them would be sweet.

 

Sorry for being blunt. And hopless

[breng77]

If going with terminator Models you have a number of options.

 

Take Draigo and play all Paladins (though at that point all you have are terminator models)

 

Take Draigo + a 10 man paladin squad then add other units to it to flesh out the list.

 

Run a squad of 10 regular termies as part of a larger army.

 

Both Draigo builds are tough at 1500 points if you want any type of Variety, but can be effective because 10 paladins are hard to deal with at that point level.

[the jeske]

Draigo

10 paladins 4 psycannons mix of weapons

5 paladins 2 psycannons 2 hammers rest halabards

2xNDK with hvy incinerator and teleporter.

 

 

For example something like this .

[Brother Captain Kezef]

If going with terminator Models you have a number of options.

 

Take Draigo and play all Paladins (though at that point all you have are terminator models)

 

Take Draigo + a 10 man paladin squad then add other units to it to flesh out the list.

 

Run a squad of 10 regular termies as part of a larger army.

 

Both Draigo builds are tough at 1500 points if you want any type of Variety, but can be effective because 10 paladins are hard to deal with at that point level.

 

Or you can run nothing but regular terminators.

 

I run 30 GKT, a grandmaster and a sniper at 2k and it's very effective.

 

Paladins are shiny at first but soom people figure out to mass str8 ap2 fire and the extra points put into them are wasted. I play a Greywing rather than a Draigowing and find it is just as good as any deathwing, sometimes better.

[breng77]

There are really not that many armies that can spam enough S8 Ap2 shots to really worry Draigowing, because you need multiple shots per squad. The other issue being that 20 paladins cost about the same as 30 termies, have 10 additional wounds, and 2 Additional Psycannons. NOt saying Greywing is bad, but it is very similar to old deathwing (prior to the FAQ giving storm shields)

[nurglez]

Draigo wing is a very specific style, and while you can take solo paladins that are scoring (55 point scoring units) you will generally want a 10man squad, meaning you will have a deathstar unit of about 900 points.

 

Though Draigo wing is the cheapest army to make (my 1500 list cost me around £130 from an independent supplier).

 

Normal terminators are also a good choice, as are strikes. Coteaz led henchmen armies are also rather decent.

 

The best thing I can recommend is to use stand ins (if your opponents let you) and try out a few lists from the army list section. Otherwise you may waste money on models you don't enjoy using.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

There are really not that many armies that can spam enough S8 Ap2 shots to really worry Draigowing, because you need multiple shots per squad. The other issue being that 20 paladins cost about the same as 30 termies, have 10 additional wounds, and 2 Additional Psycannons. NOt saying Greywing is bad, but it is very similar to old deathwing (prior to the FAQ giving storm shields)

 

30 Termies gives me 2 more scoring units for objective missions (assuming combat squads) and more mileage.

 

Not saying Draigowing is bad, but I'm a passionate old-school Grey Knight, standard termies till the day I die :rolleyes:

[*Furyou Miko]

Sisters (the entire codex), Necrons (Harbingers of Destruction, Doomsday Arks) and Space Wolves (Rocket Long Fangs, Meltagun Grey Hunters) are the armies that can sensibly spam S8AP2.

 

Codex Marines can fake it with Devastator Squads, but who takes Devastators, seriously?

[breng77]

There are problems with all of those examples.

 

Sisters: at best you have 6 units with more than 2 S8 AP 2 shots. So sure they can do it. But they then need to be within 12" with at least 3 of those units. But overall they do decently.

 

Necrons you have a maximum of 2 units with more than 2 shots. Doing so limits you in other

Areas. Doomsday arms are terrible.

 

Wolves: melta hunters only get 2 shots each. Missiles are AP3.

 

Guard is probably the only army that routinely does a good job of this kind of spam.

[*Furyou Miko]

Exorcists eat Paladins and Terminators for breakfast, Dominions have a potential four meltaguns in a Repressor, while Seraphim have the same number of shots with Jump Pack mobility... I'd favour Dominions here because, while they're generally dearer (because of needing twice as many), they also get twin-linking (while Seraphim only reroll to wound, which in this case is the easy bit). SCS can have 3 relentless multi-meltas. Celestian MSU can bring another 6 meltaguns and 3 multi-meltas into the equation with immolators.

 

Doomsday Arks are hardly terrible if you know what you're doing with them. There's also the Death Ray, and DestriTeks are hardly expensive. Shove one or two in every Warrior squad and you have a unit that can demech/anti-paladin, and still slaughter infantry. Hardly limiting. Or, since Paladin armies tend to have fewer units, just keep them together as a pair of Courts. There's also the Abyssal Staff/Deathmark combo, although that won't cause instant death (but AP1 templates wounding on a 2+ is just vile).

 

Nothing stopping Long Fangs taking Multi-meltas. My mistake on the missile launchers.

 

I guess there's Sternguard combi-melta drop pods, thinking about it from the Marine PoV.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Nothing stopping Long Fangs taking Multi-meltas. My mistake on the missile launchers.

It is true that missles are ap3 however they are cheap on LF's three packs of missle Long fangs is bound to see some 1's being rolled and any full wound Pallies who fail will be removed. Couple that with the meltas as mentioned on the GF's it is very dangerous.

[breng77]

I'm not saying paladins don't die. But you'd be surprised how poorly some of the mentioned units will do at killing them. Especially if draigo us in there and the have cover.

 

I disagree with you on the viability of some of what you mentioned in a competitive meta. Exorcists IMO fail in general due to their random nature, and only having one gun. Doomsday arks suffer if the move, and again 1 gun. Destructeks are not expensive but you get 10 crypteks max so taking all 10 the same is limiting.

 

Basically if you can build to beat paladins it is not hard but doing so limits you against other armies.

[*Furyou Miko]

Then your opinion has never actually met one on the battlefield, whether as an ally or an enemy. Besides, you can give the Exorcist a storm bolter. :yes:

 

Anyone who says Doomsday Arks only have one gun hasn't been paying attention either. They can put out the same firepower as a squad of 10 Warriors! As for moving, why would you ever need to move a gun with 72" range? Just stick it on a hill, or make it so that the enemy has to move into its lines of fire if they want to kill you.

[breng77]

I'm just not a fan of units with one big gun. 5/6 damage results deal with an /ark for at least a turn and 1/2 take it out of the game. As for why you would need to move, there are plenty of reasons.

[*Furyou Miko]

The same is true of any vehicle that isn't a Land Raider or Storm Raven, so you must field a very narrow selection of armoured fighting vehicles!

[breng77]

Not true. Gk vehicles with fortitude, ignore 1/3rd of the damage chart. Transports still fill their role when weapon destroyed. Vehicles with multiple good guns can suffer multiple weapon destroyed results and still function. If I blow one gun off an excorcist it becomes an av 13 wall that can ram or tank shock. The vindicator shares the same issue. In my experience these vehicles get one shot off if the are lucky and then die/lose their weapon. I also don't like randomness the excorcist is great when you roll a 6 not so much when you roll a 1.

[Gentlemanloser]

And that one shot is taken on Draigo's Storm shield. ;)

[*Furyou Miko]

Your whole attitude is wrong, then. Lets compare the Exorcist to its closest equivalent vehicle, which as far as I can tell is the Leman Russ Vanquisher.

 

It's slightly more fragile (-1 front armour, -2 side armour, but with a 6+ invulnerable), but more accurate (BS4). Its' main gun is only 48" rather than 72", which is a significant difference, but it's AP1 rather than AP2. For 15 points less, that's not a brilliant match-up. Then you add the fact that it can potentially shoot an extra five shots, and suddenly, 15 points seems a reasonable tax for that much extra potential, no?

 

Remember: The Exorcist isn't an unreliable weapon that will probably crap out on you, it's a decent gun with the potential to be awesome.

[breng77]

That comparison assumes that I rate the leman Russ vanquisher. I don't, I'm generally not all that impressed with any of the russes. That said they all come with at least 2 guns and can buy sponsons. Which means they have a lot more durability. Let me throw down another comparison. An excorcist costs the same as a gk psyche an dread. Which has -1 front armor, + 1 sides, fortitude, on average 1 additional shot, better accuracy, fortitude, can assault...

Both fill similar roles, the excorcist is better at killing heavy infantry but little else. You really cannot just find an example of another unit that fills the same role to justify a unit as being great.

 

In the sisters book alone I rave retributors much higher for the points (10 points more for 10 with 4 rending heavy bolters.)