Drop Pods as Weapon Platforms

[feuer_faust]

I am slowly, slowly getting back in to the miniatures gaming business. While reading a bit of fluff on Captain Cato Sicarius, they went over a battle where he simply plopped a pile of deathwind-missile-launching drop pods into his enemies to thin their ranks and keep them busy. If I recall correctly (God willing), one can deploy squads independently of their dedicated transports.

 

So, assuming 3 pods (two for tactical marines and... some sternguard, let's say) in a 1500 point list, is it worth basically using them as 55-point decoys/horde-thinners/point-watchers? The clearest downside is letting the marines trudge their way forward on foot, although I reckon if one had some assault squads or something fast that could mop up the deathwind's mess (short-ranged though it is) that could help with the feasibility.

 

On marines, I'd assume you could hit 8 with a large blast (I suppose), so that's... 5-6 hits on average. Of that, I guess 4-3 wounds. Then about 1-2 unsaved wounds. Comparably, 3 marines in rapid-fire range (given marines are ~18 points nowadays, or 15 with 30 for a sarge) should have 6 targets at the same range, hitting 4. They then wound 3, and you've got probably 1 unsaved wound. Slightly in favor of the deathwind, although the odds get progressively worse if you nab less marines dues to scatter (with BS4 it isn't too likely), and even open-topped, AR12 takes strength 6 to even glance so they seem sturdier (but math may prove this wrong?)

 

Ideas?

[DarkGuard]

So, assuming 3 pods (two for tactical marines and... some sternguard, let's say) in a 1500 point list, is it worth basically using them as 55-point decoys/horde-thinners/point-watchers? The clearest downside is letting the marines trudge their way forward on foot, although I reckon if one had some assault squads or something fast that could mop up the deathwind's mess (short-ranged though it is) that could help with the feasibility.

 

No, I wouldn't say it's worth it. I've never seen it done, and for good reason.

 

You see, Drop Pods have to be built with units. So for units that actually want to be transported, it isn't worth buying a Pod and making them footslog. In the end you're not paying 55pts for a horde-thinner etc, you're paying 225pts for one, provided you took a Tactical squad. And then left the most damaging part of the equation on your table edge.

 

If you could buy Pods separately I could see merit, as 55pts isn't much for what it could do. But then the same can be said for a Land Speeder, which can provide disruption, in multiple places during the course of the game.

 

I can see there being use for this tactics with only a few units though. Devastators, heavy weapon Sternguard, Thunderfire cannons, backfield objective Tactical squads, all of these units don't need transport and will normally stay still, so you're effectively buying a 55pts disruption tool then.

 

But with those units that need it for transport, I'd stick with using them as the primary means of damage and deploy them to where they're needed. After all, it's a Drop Pod. Transport first, damage dealing second. Personally, I don't use Pods anymore. I don't like transporting them, and I don't like how they're immobile, depriving the unit deployed with mobility throughout the game. But if I did use them again the only upgrade I'd consider giving them is the locator beacon, and only if I plan on Deep Striking other units or using Gate. Otherwise, the Deathwind really doesn't do enough to warrant its points cost.

 

Good that you're getting back into the game though. I don't want to sound like I'm stamping on your idea, so if you want to give it a try go ahead. I just don't think it would work as well as you'd hope.

[Paulochromis]

If you want to play on the table the way you read about in the fluff then:

-- buy pods for static units as DarkGuard points out, or

-- check out the Deathstorm pods from ForgeWorld - they actually have weapons worth taking

[feuer_faust]

DarkGuard: You don't sound negative, your criticism is constructive and the sort of thing I'm looking for. I've personally never used drop pods so I'm basically just brainstorming here. Speeders do sound a bit more tantalizing when you put it that way, and have better a capacity for murder to boot (although lucky bolters can end them).

 

Paulochromis: I'll look into it, but I don't know if I'm quite ready to add Forgeworld to my games just yet. Maybe the article will change my mind. :P

[greatcrusade08]

i would also add that drop pods cannot fire on the turn they land, it gives your opponent a window in which to destroy them (for free KP too) without any real comeback

[Jaigo]

And in favour for the speeders, they can deep strike. But also just move on the board from the start. Its a game of range with the speeder and its targets.

A game I very much enjoy myself.

 

That said, I actualy do use pods aswell. The DW launcher and locator beacon are always upgraded on the pod(or pods) that land in the first wave. Works for me like a charm because it fits my list and the purpose I have them for. I had battles where the launcher wouldn't get a chance to shoot. But also I've had the template do massive havoc. It can be fun, but I wouldn't use it if you were going for a really competitive list.

[Hellios]

Depending on how old that fluff is Deathwind pods used to be what FW calls Deathstorm... Deathstorms are pretty sweet :D Although I don't think it is worth upgrading to assault cannons most of the time.

[Tanhausen]

BTW, you can't deploy a unit and leave its designated transport in reserves.

 

Nor do you roll twice for it...

 

So, IIRC, you HAVE to land embarked in the pods.

[DarkGuard]

It hasn't worked like that for a while Tanhausen, from the Space Marine FAQ:

 

Q.Can you use a Drop Pod on its own, with no squad inside? (p69)

A. Yes you can

 

feuer_faust: Speeders are great, but the two better varients do cost a few more points. The MM/HF Speeder is a fantastic disruption unit that can take out both tanks and infantry, and costs 70pts, but as you said is vulnerable to bolter fire. The Typhoon on the other hand is 90pts, so more expensive, but makes a brilliant weapons platform by carrying the equivalent of a heavy bolter and two missile launchers, giving them great versatility while having fantastic mobility. And just for the record, I definitely take one Typhoon over two Deathwind Drop Pods if I wanted something that could do damage.

[Warprat]

If you are using pods already, then the upgrade cost is not so bad. Three for about the cost of a speeder. Makes a pod into something worth shooting, which might take some heat off your Rhinos.

 

 

maybe something like this...

 

Pod 1- Devestators, deathwind.

 

Pod 2- Dreadnought, deathwind.

 

Pod 3- Tacs with melta or Sternguard+ leader, deathwind.

 

Rhino 1- Tacs with plasma

 

Rhino 2- Tacs with flamers

 

Scouts- to sit in back or outflank. (Perhaps with a LS Storm)

[Ming]

Buy the pods and put in the deathwind launchers, then use as the foregworld IA2 variant, which DOES fire on arrival at EVERY nearby unit, then on later turns it fires as if a whirlwind....

[Grey Mage]

Or with assault cannons.

 

If your opponents allow you to use FW rules, deathstorm drop pods can be a devastating and cheap HS choice.

[facmanpob]

How about the following as the core of the army:

 

Troops

 

Tactical Squad - Drop Pod

Tactical Squad - Drop Pod

 

Heavy support

 

10 x Devastators (3 msl, 1 LC) - Deathwind Pod

Deathstorm Pod

Deathstorm Pod

 

Not taking into account upgrades for the Tacticals, thats 865 points spent if my maths is correct. The Devs combat squad and deploy in the backfield, whilst the Deathwind Pod and 2 Deathstorms do Drop Pod Assault on Turn 1. The 2 Tac squads remain in reserve and drop onto objectives in the mid-late game.

[Phelaar]

The main problem I see with Drop Pod lists is they have an easy counter. When looking at a list that has 5 or more Drop Pods the first thing I would do is keep everything in reserve. Now half of your Pods have to land turn 1. So do you choose to land the tactical pods empty or the heavy pods? Either way you lose what you are trying to accomplish by taking them.

[Grey Mage]

Really? Why would you lose anything that way?

 

Drop the empty pods into places that limit your ability to deploy properly and/or block firing lanes, set up the devastators to take advantage of this and unload as your opponent arrives peicemeal. Then, once they do start coming in let your deathstorms come down into their backfield and wreak havoc.

 

Or drop your units to advantages places around the board and castle up anywhere you like in the extra two turns your opponent has given you to maneuver.

 

Having your opponent not deploy on the board is rarely a hindrance, and usually when it is it was already part of the enemy battle strategy- reserved mechdar, etc- so you lose nothing additional.

[facmanpob]

I find myself agreeing with Grey Mage on this one. If my Army List "forces" my opponent to fully reserve an army that isn't specifically suited for coming on from reserve, then I smile as my opponent has just handed me the tactical initiative on a plate. :D

[Imperial Deceit]

Plus, if your really lucky or cleaver with homing beacons you can do what is called Castling. A hull down pod is impassable terrain, and you can use them to block long lines of fire if your facing a shooty army or create choke points on tables with sparse terrain. Finally if you drop several pods immediately next to each other you create an impassable wall with weapons to boot, a veritable Castle if you will.

[Phelaar]

Really? Why would you lose anything that way?

 

Drop the empty pods into places that limit your ability to deploy properly and/or block firing lanes, set up the devastators to take advantage of this and unload as your opponent arrives peicemeal. Then, once they do start coming in let your deathstorms come down into their backfield and wreak havoc.

 

Or drop your units to advantages places around the board and castle up anywhere you like in the extra two turns your opponent has given you to maneuver.

 

Having your opponent not deploy on the board is rarely a hindrance, and usually when it is it was already part of the enemy battle strategy- reserved mechdar, etc- so you lose nothing additional.

 

You lose the ability of the weapon pods to deliver the first strike. You're putting down shooting pods that either can't shoot when they land or have no targets if forced to deploy turn 1 vs an all reserve army. Next turn they will be targeted without having done anything. You've mentioned some of the benefits of pods but none of their drawbacks. The point is that pods will very rarely work in the way the OP intends.

[Grey Mage]

Really? Why would you lose anything that way?

 

Drop the empty pods into places that limit your ability to deploy properly and/or block firing lanes, set up the devastators to take advantage of this and unload as your opponent arrives peicemeal. Then, once they do start coming in let your deathstorms come down into their backfield and wreak havoc.

 

Or drop your units to advantages places around the board and castle up anywhere you like in the extra two turns your opponent has given you to maneuver.

 

Having your opponent not deploy on the board is rarely a hindrance, and usually when it is it was already part of the enemy battle strategy- reserved mechdar, etc- so you lose nothing additional.

 

You lose the ability of the weapon pods to deliver the first strike. You're putting down shooting pods that either can't shoot when they land or have no targets if forced to deploy turn 1 vs an all reserve army. Next turn they will be targeted without having done anything. You've mentioned some of the benefits of pods but none of their drawbacks. The point is that pods will very rarely work in the way the OP intends.

We already know that deathstorm launchers cant work the way he wants them to because they cant fire the turn they land.

 

And my point is that reserving your whole army isnt any real advantage against a properly made drop podding force. Drop Pods do have drawbacks, but none of them are exploited by not being on the board when youre playing against an experienced player.

[MordentHex]

Or if the person decides to come in on reserves just pop down the drop pods down on his table edge and force where he can come in as reserves. Space them so that transport can not fully come on the table without being 1" from them. Place your devastators and Tac squads appropriately and you have a turkey shoot as they come in on the table. As always alittle luck it would work greatly.

[ShinyRhino]

Or if the person decides to come in on reserves just pop down the drop pods down on his table edge and force where he can come in as reserves. Space them so that transport can not fully come on the table without being 1" from them. Place your devastators and Tac squads appropriately and you have a turkey shoot as they come in on the table. As always alittle luck it would work greatly.

 

I think you mean a LOT ofluck, as any pod that scatters off the table edge gets a nice Deepstrike Mishap. You will find it infinitely difficult to line the opposing board edge with drop pods.

[Grey Mage]

Depends, alot of places like to put terrain on the board edge... like everything else its a situational tactic though. If the enemy is jump heavy or skimmer heavy it wont matter for example.

[Imperial Deceit]

Fortunatly drop pods require a little less luck thanks to their stabizers. Also, where does it say they can't shot the turn they come in? The stormbolter is assault and a defensive weapon. You only wouldn't be able to use the deathwind as it is heavy.

[Grey Mage]

Fortunatly drop pods require a little less luck thanks to their stabizers. Also, where does it say they can't shot the turn they come in? The stormbolter is assault and a defensive weapon. You only wouldn't be able to use the deathwind as it is heavy.

Deepstriking counts as moving at cruising speed, drop pods are not considered fast vehicles and thus cannot shoot anything.

[facmanpob]

Fortunatly drop pods require a little less luck thanks to their stabizers. Also, where does it say they can't shot the turn they come in? The stormbolter is assault and a defensive weapon. You only wouldn't be able to use the deathwind as it is heavy.

Deepstriking counts as moving at cruising speed, drop pods are not considered fast vehicles and thus cannot shoot anything.

For the sake of completeness, its on the last page of the BRB FAQ.....:D