There are no Wolves on Fenris

[Simo429]

I know a topic that has been covered before and I did attempt to search for it but nothing came up.

 

Just a thought

 

 

If all the wolves on Fenris are Space Wolves fallen to the Wulfen as many believe and certainly Prospero burns and a thousand sons hints at, how was Russ raised by Wolves when he first arrived on Fenris as a infant?

 

[Max_Dammit]

We dont know, its they way GW does things, they mess up fluff

[eyeslikethunder]

the options that come to mind beyond the obvious of GW not being careful enough <--- what I believe

 

1) Russ was not brought up by wolves and its just part of oral myths of fenris like the wolf that eats the sun

2) Magnus suggests that the canix helix was added to the fenrisians DNA when fenris was first found maybe some of these became wolves

3) they were daemons

[Simo429]

the options that come to mind beyond the obvious of GW not being careful enough <--- what I believe

 

1) Russ was not brought up by wolves and its just part of oral myths of fenris like the wolf that eats the sun

2) Magnus suggests that the canix helix was added to the fenrisians DNA when fenris was first found maybe some of these became wolves

3) they were daemons

I think thats the more realistic one or that they are xenos creatures

[Max_Dammit]

id go for 2 if i had to choose, maybe normal humans turn in to normal fenrissian wolves and/or black manes, and spacemarines turn in to thunderwolves.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

It all started as a misprint for, 'there are nu-wolves on Fenris' :D

[Captain Idaho]

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Makes sense really. Russ, with his special DNA, was sent there because only his geneseed would be optimal/workable for the creation of SW from a population whose DNA was already tampered with.

[Valerian]

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Makes sense really. Russ, with his special DNA, was sent there because only his geneseed would be optimal/workable for the creation of SW from a population whose DNA was already tampered with.

 

So, the Chaos gods sent the infant Russ to the one planet out of billions in the galaxy where the population just so happened to have a similar gift in genetics, allowing the creation of a Legion that would be one of the largest thorns in the side of Chaos?

 

 

Valerian

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I really felt that along with PB not really being about PB very much at all [though I did like it, if a little slow] that things started in ATS were not carried on as well as they could have been, nor as much as the PR machine had spun that the two books were like peas in a pod either.

 

Perhaps that could be due to Dan's health issues, but I don't feel so given how disparate the books are.

 

So yeah, they really left something that was 'a big deal' to peter into 'meh'ness. Imo.

[Khine]

Do we know for sure that there wasn't a race of wolves on fenris when Russ landed and died out between then and when he was found again?

[eyeslikethunder]

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Makes sense really. Russ, with his special DNA, was sent there because only his geneseed would be optimal/workable for the creation of SW from a population whose DNA was already tampered with.

 

So, the Chaos gods sent the infant Russ to the one planet out of billions in the galaxy where the population just so happened to have a similar gift in genetics, allowing the creation of a Legion that would be one of the largest thorns in the side of Chaos?

 

 

Valerian

 

If that messes with those genetics and stops them being used accross the galaxy because the SW are now tied to fenris that seems like a good plan

Rather than having the eye of terror ringed with a set SW successors.

 

That would of course mean that fenrisians were far from optimal and become a limiting factor

 

but doubt it was just by chance that primarch based on the power of the canis helix come to land on a planet of humans who all have canis helix enginneered into them so they can survive

[Schertenleib]

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Makes sense really. Russ, with his special DNA, was sent there because only his geneseed would be optimal/workable for the creation of SW from a population whose DNA was already tampered with.

 

So, the Chaos gods sent the infant Russ to the one planet out of billions in the galaxy where the population just so happened to have a similar gift in genetics, allowing the creation of a Legion that would be one of the largest thorns in the side of Chaos?

 

 

Valerian

 

 

Remember of course that the plans of Chaos span centuries. Could it be then that Russ was sent to this planet just so he could make the very force that would destroy Magnus and his Sons? As they could have been an even bigger barrier to Chaos or the fact that their fall would aid Chaos in it's over all plan.

[Captain Idaho]

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Makes sense really. Russ, with his special DNA, was sent there because only his geneseed would be optimal/workable for the creation of SW from a population whose DNA was already tampered with.

 

So, the Chaos gods sent the infant Russ to the one planet out of billions in the galaxy where the population just so happened to have a similar gift in genetics, allowing the creation of a Legion that would be one of the largest thorns in the side of Chaos?

 

 

Valerian

 

No, the Emperor sent Russ there. He couldn't stop them being whisked away, but he could direct where some/all of them ended up.

 

Speculation of course but explains the coincidence that each Primarch landed safely on a human planet. After all, why didn't Chaos send them all to Chaos infested planets or destroy those it couldn't send to said planets?

 

;)

[Grimfoe]

Honestly, this was the quote that really pissed me off the most and has made it much more difficult for me to enjoy any of the newer books.

 

It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing over at GW. Or, more accurately, one hand doesn't bother to learn what the other has already done.

 

The fluff was SO far off that it was infuriating me while I read the book. Why bother if the author can't even get the story straight?

 

 

Horus Heresy was the same. I have only a passing interest in the fluff as I'm no scholar, but in the first books of the Heresy there is specific mention of how the Astartes don't even know about Chaos or the true nature of the warp. Horus himself is ignorant until they encounter the "other" empire and learn about it. There were NO pyskers allowed in any of the Chapters which is why Magnus was in such trouble. Then, about 3 books in the series they talk about another Chapter (i can't remember if it's the Death Guard or the Emperor's Children) and that chapter has had pyskers all along!!!!

 

 

They can't even keep the fluff straight within the same series!!!!

 

Anyway, I've decided to ignore ALL fluff concerning the Space Wolves since 2nd edition. That codex is put together very well and started me collecting the Wolves in the first place.

 

Now I can really feel like an old man. "In my day, Fenris was populated with huge wolves! Space marines had to walk out into the wild and kill them with nothing but a knife just to prove they were ready to wear the power armor. They had to walk uphill and in the snow. Both ways!"

 

"We didn't ride them either! We had walk on our own or use bikes! That was before gas prices were so high that the Chapter made us start riding wolves. Damn budget cuts!"

[Wolfsbane]

Remember of course that the plans of Chaos span centuries. Could it be then that Russ was sent to this planet just so he could make the very force that would destroy Magnus and his Sons? As they could have been an even bigger barrier to Chaos or the fact that their fall would aid Chaos in it's over all plan.

 

This, the wolves are very good at resisting the taint of the warp and fighting the legions or evil that come from within it. Can you imagine if Magnus and the thousand sons stayed loyal? The chaos gods knew he was more dangerous alive. While he was a arrogant in his knowledge and assumptions of his own power, he and his legion would have swung the battle in the loyalists a fair margin. They should either join or be wiped out, in the end the Chaos Gods got both as well as a defenseless Terra.

 

Russ was part of that plan.

[Captain Idaho]

I think people give too much credence to the foresight and manipulation of everthing. So they planned to try and turn Magnus and when he resisted had a back up plan to have him removed from the Heresy that involved manipluation of Russ, his Legion, the Custodes, Warmaster and Sisters of Silence, AND manipulated where Russ ended up being taken too in the Warp as an infant? And required Magnus to feel guilty enough to allow his Legion's desctruction?

 

Not to mention this igores the fact The Emperor ordered the destruction of the Thousand Sons, after the fact Magnus single handedly forced the Emperor to remove himself from the Martial realm to lead his Imperium as he needed to fight the Psychic battle.

 

It's all just too reliant on too many variables and really takes away the excitement of all the Heresy to say "it was all part of the plan all along". I mean, who wants to know that fate decided all the actions of everyone in the Heresy before they were even born? Free choice, BAD choice, is what makes the Heresy so tragic. Endless battle in 40K is part of what makes it so dark and oppressive.

 

It's the same reason people don't like the way every variable in the Heresy is because "Alpha Legion did it". There's no struggle or mystery.

 

***EDITED: oh and what Space Wolf fan likes to think everything about them and their existance is owed to the manipluation of the Chaos gods? :P

[Max_Dammit]

Magnus was suposed to be put on the throne instead of the emperor, becourse du to magnus he couldnt get of, can you think what he would have done in his free time when the atack on terra started, i dont think the forces of horus would have had the field day they had.

 

But i think that normal humans being normal wolves and marines thunderwolves is a good explanation. But i doubt any whriter has ever even thought that far about it.

[Valerian]

No, the Emperor sent Russ there. He couldn't stop them being whisked away, but he could direct where some/all of them ended up.

 

Speculation of course but explains the coincidence that each Primarch landed safely on a human planet. After all, why didn't Chaos send them all to Chaos infested planets or destroy those it couldn't send to said planets?

 

That's the thing though, is that it is pure speculation; in 25 years worth of fluff we don't have any source (that I'm aware of), that says that the Emperor had any ability to guide the destinations of his Primarch infants as they were spread by the Chaos gods across the galaxy. We are only told that the Chaos gods couldn't outright kill them. How they all end up on human inhabited worlds (although several are Death Worlds), is not explained.

 

It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing over at GW. Or, more accurately, one hand doesn't bother to learn what the other has already done.

 

Quite true.

 

The fluff was SO far off that it was infuriating me while I read the book. Why bother if the author can't even get the story straight?

 

......

 

They can't even keep the fluff straight within the same series!!!!

 

And that, my dear friend, is exactly why I don't read BL books. If just stick with Studio-produced stuff, it generally isn't too bad, and stays fairly consistent, barring a few inventions (e.g. riding Thunderwolves). Only occassionally do they (cough, cough, Mat Ward) frack up traditional background material.

 

Best regards,

 

Valerian

[Captain Idaho]

No, the Emperor sent Russ there. He couldn't stop them being whisked away, but he could direct where some/all of them ended up.

 

Speculation of course but explains the coincidence that each Primarch landed safely on a human planet. After all, why didn't Chaos send them all to Chaos infested planets or destroy those it couldn't send to said planets?

 

That's the thing though, is that it is pure speculation; in 25 years worth of fluff we don't have any source (that I'm aware of), that says that the Emperor had any ability to guide the destinations of his Primarch infants as they were spread by the Chaos gods across the galaxy. We are only told that the Chaos gods couldn't outright kill them. How they all end up on human inhabited worlds (although several are Death Worlds), is not explained.

 

 

Well, it's an educated guess rather than a random theory.

 

But just as much as that is the case, so is it the same for whether the Chaos Gods were able to influence the destinations of the Primarchs. After all, they were said to be stolen away and we have nothing more than that. However, we do have some suggestions in a few sources that the Emperor planned the destinations of some or all of the Primarchs.

 

Besides it's only a small contention out of the point I made earlier:

 

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Makes sense really. Russ, with his special DNA, was sent there because only his geneseed would be optimal/workable for the creation of SW from a population whose DNA was already tampered with.

 

Emboldened part mine, since it was the part which referred to the question and wasn't speculation. ;)

[Hfran Morkai]

Magnus was a liar and a sorceror, why believe his foul tongue?

 

;)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Horus Heresy was the same. I have only a passing interest in the fluff as I'm no scholar, but in the first books of the Heresy there is specific mention of how the Astartes don't even know about Chaos or the true nature of the warp. Horus himself is ignorant until they encounter the "other" empire and learn about it. There were NO pyskers allowed in any of the Chapters which is why Magnus was in such trouble. Then, about 3 books in the series they talk about another Chapter (i can't remember if it's the Death Guard or the Emperor's Children) and that chapter has had pyskers all along!!!!

 

Well, psykers were completely legal pre-Nikaea, which is when those books were based. That's why at one point during A Thousand Sons, a group of chief psykers comes up to testify before the Emperor. Before that ruling, most legions had a fully fledged Librarius division that was supported by the Emperor himself.

[Valerian]

No, the Emperor sent Russ there. He couldn't stop them being whisked away, but he could direct where some/all of them ended up.

 

Speculation of course but explains the coincidence that each Primarch landed safely on a human planet. After all, why didn't Chaos send them all to Chaos infested planets or destroy those it couldn't send to said planets?

 

That's the thing though, is that it is pure speculation; in 25 years worth of fluff we don't have any source (that I'm aware of), that says that the Emperor had any ability to guide the destinations of his Primarch infants as they were spread by the Chaos gods across the galaxy. We are only told that the Chaos gods couldn't outright kill them. How they all end up on human inhabited worlds (although several are Death Worlds), is not explained.

 

 

Well, it's an educated guess rather than a random theory.

 

I'll grant you that - it is a valid guess at explaining how they ended up where they did; It just isn't supported by any evidence (again, that I'm aware of).

 

But just as much as that is the case, so is it the same for whether the Chaos Gods were able to influence the destinations of the Primarchs. After all, they were said to be stolen away and we have nothing more than that.

 

Agreed here - I don't think the Chaos gods had any control either - they just scattered them to the "winds", and probably hoped that would be good enough to screw up the Emperor's plans.

 

However, we do have some suggestions in a few sources that the Emperor planned the destinations of some or all of the Primarchs.

 

Do we? Maybe in the HH series, and I'm just not aware. In fact, I just found this snippet that says the Emperor didn't even know if they were still alive:

 

Leman Russ

 

As already described, the young Primarchs had been stolen by the powers of Chaos and cast to planets across the galaxy. At this time the Emperor had no idea where they were or even whether they were alive at all. By the time they were recovered during the Great Crusade, the Primarchs had grown into adulthood amongst whatever civilizations existed on the planets where they happened to be. Leman Russ was found and raised upon the planet of Fenris.

 

The world of Fenris was discovered early on during the Great Crusade, lying, as it does, in the north-western part of the galaxy. The youthful Leman Russ was identified by the Emperor's agents and united with the Space Marine Legion that bore his genes. Legend has it that it was the Emperor himself who finally confronted the barbaric Primarch and won his fealty by defeating him in single combat.

 

 

Besides it's only a small contention out of the point I made earlier:

 

From what Magnus the Red said, if you believe him to be correct, the Wolves of Fenris have nothing to do with Space Wolves but the colonists who first settled there, though I'd imagine the Thunderwolves could be failed aspirants.

 

Emboldened part mine, since it was the part which referred to the question and wasn't speculation. ;)

 

Except failed aspirants don't become Thunderwolves, they become full-on Wulfen:

 

"Although the aspirant does not know it, the feast had a purpose. The geneseed is beginning to work on his body, rushing through it and restructuring it. Muscle mass is being added, bones are beginning to fuse together, and the very structure of his brain is beginning to alter, quickening his reactions and heightening his perceptions. Vestigial fangs are starting to emerge. The venison provides the raw protein for this, and the sacred ale was laced with the necessary trace chemicals to fuel the change.

 

The aspirant knows none of this. He is wracked with pain and his body stretches and grows. His mind is haunted by visions and sanity fades. He becomes wolf-like, feral, maddened by agony and hunger. Now is the worst time, he is constantly hungry because his changing body needs more and more nourishment if it is to sustain growth. Failure to provide this will be fatal as his body begins to cannibalise itself.

 

These first few days are the most critical. The aspirant must feed often. He is usually left near a source of food such as an elk herd. Near mindless, he must hunt them down, eat their raw flesh and drink their blood. Some aspirants, unable to meet the challenge, perish. Some, whether due to some flaw in themselves or the geneseed, never get beyond this stage. They become mindless creatures, with an animal's cunning. They continue to grow and hunger for flesh, eventually becoming Wulfen, the most feared monsters on Fenris. Others only partially overcome this stage, and in later life will revert to the Wulfen state in times of crisis."

 

Now whether the various types of Wolves of Fenris had something to do with ancient colonists, I have no idea, but I prefer not to even think of this option. Mounstrous Death World creatures is good enough for me.

 

 

 

Both relevant quotes from WD 246.

 

Best,

 

V

[Grimfoe]

Horus Heresy was the same. I have only a passing interest in the fluff as I'm no scholar, but in the first books of the Heresy there is specific mention of how the Astartes don't even know about Chaos or the true nature of the warp. Horus himself is ignorant until they encounter the "other" empire and learn about it. There were NO pyskers allowed in any of the Chapters which is why Magnus was in such trouble. Then, about 3 books in the series they talk about another Chapter (i can't remember if it's the Death Guard or the Emperor's Children) and that chapter has had pyskers all along!!!!

 

Well, psykers were completely legal pre-Nikaea, which is when those books were based. That's why at one point during A Thousand Sons, a group of chief psykers comes up to testify before the Emperor. Before that ruling, most legions had a fully fledged Librarius division that was supported by the Emperor himself.

 

That's the weird thing, though. Horus didn't have ANY psykers in his legion. He didn't even know what Chaos was. That simply can't be reconciled with the later books or the fluff up to that point. It's just odd.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

There were psykers, they just didn't think of them as psykers in relation to the Warp and Chaos. It's possible to have a psychic ability without knowing about Chaos, much like the Age of Strife and all that.

[Macerio]

See, I share the frustration here. I mean, it's one thing to tweak the fluff and take it in a new direction; it's another to break it all together. Earlier fluff said "psykers = athletes; sorcerers = soul sellers; one allowed, other forbidden after Nikea"; new book says, "All psykers forbidden at Nikea; all Librarian units disbanded and reintegrated into normal troops."