Finished Void Stalker, my thoughts

[Gree]

Please note everything about this post is a spoiler. There is no thread so far here in the Chaos forum so I guess I should create one to showcase my thoughts

 

 

Well I finished Void Stalker and I liked it.

 

Now, before I say anything else, I was rather surprised at the ending. From past comments and interviews A D-B seemed to have planned six books with Talos in two trilogies. Apparently that’s not going to happen, unless there is another trilogy after this featuring Decimus and playing into the events of the 13th Black Crusade?

 

As for the plot of the novel itself, it’s dark and depressing in a good way as I really kind of felt Talos sorta degenerate both in mind and body. The revelation at the end that Talos hated the Legion for ultimately turning him into such a monster was also well done. First time I really felt sorry for Uzas and it was really a kick in the pants to find out that Cyrion was actually the killer and Uzas the scapegoat. Xarl’s duel with the Genesis Champion was simply epic.

 

One of the past criticisms of this series that I’ve seen is that the Night Lords are “too nice” or “too human”. I think here A D-B does a good job of showing them as characters, but hammering in that these guys are ultimately scum. The villains to the Imperium’s “good guy”

 

I’m also very excited by the presence of the Ultramarine Successor chapters, who really don’t get enough love. The scenes with the Genesis Chapter are very well done, but in a way they really feel like the worst part of the book.

 

I have painted up a squad of Genesis Chapter Marines and this book wants me to play them rather badly, unfortunately in my experience whenever I put down my Genesis Marines on the tabletop I always get “Hey, cool Blood Angels!’’. So I’ve pretty much resigned myself to the fact that any attempt at playing the Genesis Chapter will be seen as Blood Angels.

 

The ending raises many questions I have. I can only speculate that Decimus is Octavia’s child with Talos’s geneseed, which causes me to question when this novel takes place (The destruction of the Marines Errant in Blood Reaver took place in 999. M41, the 13th Black Crusade takes place around the same date yet Decimus is already a fully grown Marine at that time for some reason.)

 

The fact that seemingly the Night Lords Legion is united at the end makes me excited to see if this particular plot thread will be continued, although I’m not sure if the series is going to be continued after that point.

 

That and Lucoryphus is somehow alive when I thought he died earlier? Or is it just some form of identity that is inherited?

 

 

Oh, and I chuckled at the Batman reference at the end.

 

‘And why should we?’ called Lord Hemek of the Nightwing. ‘Why should we spill eldar blood, when we have hordes of Imperial Guard to slake our thirsts?’

 

‘Revenge,’ argued another. ‘For vengeance.’

 

‘I need no vengeance against the eldar,’ said Hemek. His Legion-crested helm was resplendent with its wings of black-veined cobalt. ‘We all carry our own grudges, and mine have nothing to do with Ulthwé.’

 

In conclusion, I love this book to bits.

[Clewz]

I think it is the original Lucoryphus as its never confirmed that he has died. We just see him holding the spear in his guts. Its possible his sus-an membrane kicked in at that point

[Gree]

I think it is the original Lucoryphus as its never confirmed that he has died. We just see him holding the spear in his guts. Its possible his sus-an membrane kicked in at that point

 

Possible, but as I said, I thought he had died.

[Brother Ambroz]

I was looking for a spoiler thread as well. My thoughts:

 

 

Uzas was my favorite character all along, I'm not sure why though. During Blood Reaver Cyrion's corruption is hardly mentioned, I'd actually thought ADB meant to forget about it. Boy was I wrong.

 

I do love the fact that they'll be killing pointy ears soon too.

 

Malcharion finally did die though at the end of this one right?

 

I don't really understand why Variel was after the slaves' child. It didn't seem referanced that he was Decimus, at least not to me.

 

[RolandTHTG]

I was looking for a spoiler thread as well. My thoughts:

 

 

Uzas was my favorite character all along, I'm not sure why though. During Blood Reaver Cyrion's corruption is hardly mentioned, I'd actually thought ADB meant to forget about it. Boy was I wrong.

 

I do love the fact that they'll be killing pointy ears soon too.

 

Malcharion finally did die though at the end of this one right?

 

I don't really understand why Variel was after the slaves' child. It didn't seem referanced that he was Decimus, at least not to me.

 

 

 

Uzas always had a bit of the tragic to him, especially in the last book, when you realize how far he has fallen, and how little he had realized that.

 

No, I think Malcharion is still alive, unless he refused to be taken with Variel in the aftermath. He's still alive enough to finish off Jan-zar (with one of the funniest comments of the series)

 

The implication that it was the child was in the name. If the son of slaves would also be a slave, as seems likely, then the child would have been known as Decimus to Talos. With his comments about Variel following them for the child, it seems likely Variel would honor Talos with his naming after he kidnapped the kid. As far as why he hadn't tracked them down, I can totally see Variel's Practicality letting them raise the child until its of age for implantation, then taking it.

 

[Lexington]

The implication that it was the child was in the name. If the son of slaves would also be a slave, as seems likely, then the child would have been known as Decimus to Talos. With his comments about Variel following them for the child, it seems likely Variel would honor Talos with his naming after he kidnapped the kid. As far as why he hadn't tracked them down, I can totally see Variel's Practicality letting them raise the child until its of age for implantation, then taking it.

 

Well, remember the end of Blood Reaver, where Talos had a vision of a pregnant Octavia fleeing the Inquisition, and wearing Septimus' flight jacket no less - not the best implication for the poor guy. There's more of a story there, I think, than Variel swooping in and taking the kid.

 

I also like the implication that Decimus' soul is a reincarnation of the Void Born. :D

 

[Gree]

The implication that it was the child was in the name. If the son of slaves would also be a slave, as seems likely, then the child would have been known as Decimus to Talos. With his comments about Variel following them for the child, it seems likely Variel would honor Talos with his naming after he kidnapped the kid. As far as why he hadn't tracked them down, I can totally see Variel's Practicality letting them raise the child until its of age for implantation, then taking it.

 

Well, remember the end of Blood Reaver, where Talos had a vision of a pregnant Octavia fleeing the Inquisition, and wearing Septimus' flight jacket no less - not the best implication for the poor guy. There's more of a story there, I think, than Variel swooping in and taking the kid.

 

 

 

So we might be seeing another novel on that?

[Lexington]

So we might be seeing another novel on that?

Up to our resident A D-B, really. Septimus and Octavia were a really interesting component to the Night Lords novels, so I think it'd be great.

[Cyrox]

I hope there might be a short story or a novella that may tie things up, i guess its up to ADB

[diabloelmo]

*butchers a goat in sacrifice to the Chaos God of awesome stories (otherwise known as A D-B )*

 

Please, O mighty one, gift us with more writings of the Sons of Kurze! Let them once again stand in midnight clad, and thrill us with their tales!

[Kol Saresk]

 

I think Lucoryphus'situation may have to do with the whole "dead-yet-alive" situation that Variel notes about him. It's the only thing I can think of.

 

Variel's obsession with the child wasn't really explained that well. If I had to give a personal opinion, I would say because he had already marke it for implantation. Or he was simply curious about what a child between a Navigator and a human would be like. Although the latter would need some better explaining.

 

With the whole timeline thing, two things: One, just how long is the standard Imperial year? Is it one Terran year? Or is it longer or shorter? That would explain the age issue if Decimus is the child. The other reason would be the warp. It threw them into the past and Variel found them by accident. That sort of stuff.

 

I really loved the flashbacks to the fall of Tsalgualsa.

 

The biggest things I didn't like about it were Xarl dying so early and the way Uzas died. Those two were my favorites although I think Xarl would be my top one. The sarcastic son of a gun.

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

I think Lucoryphus'situation may have to do with the whole "dead-yet-alive" situation that Variel notes about him. It's the only thing I can think of.

 

Variel's obsession with the child wasn't really explained that well. If I had to give a personal opinion, I would say because he had already marke it for implantation. Or he was simply curious about what a child between a Navigator and a human would be like. Although the latter would need some better explaining.

 

With the whole timeline thing, two things: One, just how long is the standard Imperial year? Is it one Terran year? Or is it longer or shorter? That would explain the age issue if Decimus is the child. The other reason would be the warp. It threw them into the past and Variel found them by accident. That sort of stuff.

 

I really loved the flashbacks to the fall of Tsalgualsa.

 

The biggest things I didn't like about it were Xarl dying so early and the way Uzas died. Those two were my favorites although I think Xarl would be my top one. The sarcastic son of a gun.

 

 

I actually liked that they killed of Xarl so early (sad as it was), because it really set the tone of the novel, that they were turning to fight, rather than constantly running, and that fighting has consequences. They only survived so long because they ran from every fair fight they got into, and while, ideologically, fighting gave the warband purpose again, it's simply not playing to their strengths. I really like how the fight was done though, it really gave Xarl his chance to shine.

 

The unveiling of the Terminator armour was another awesome moment. I'd forgotten that they'd "recovered" that armour, so finally seeing it put into use was a nice surprise.

 

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I actually liked that they killed of Xarl so early (sad as it was), because it really set the tone of the novel, that they were turning to fight, rather than constantly running, and that fighting has consequences. They only survived so long because they ran from every fair fight they got into, and while, ideologically, fighting gave the warband purpose again, it's simply not playing to their strengths. I really like how the fight was done though, it really gave Xarl his chance to shine.

 

The unveiling of the Terminator armour was another awesome moment. I'd forgotten that they'd "recovered" that armour, so finally seeing it put into use was a nice surprise.

 

 

That and the revelation of the ultimate use of that Titan Princeps, and how the Shriek is generated.

 

[Sons of Horus]

 

This book was absolutely amazing. I never realized just how much I liked Xarl until Talos almost cried after burning his body. The revelations with Uzas and Cyrion were nice too.

I think Decimus is the child of Octavia with the gene-seed of Talos (it makes sense to me anyway because Septimus - 7, Octavia - 8, Nonus - 9, Decimus - 10). I just want to know if Malcharion really died on Tsagualsa.

 

[Kol Saresk]

Nonus(Maruc) was only called Nonus once and had no relation to either Octavia(Eurydice) or Septimus(Coreth) until he met them. So Decimus could just be the Tenth personal slave of First Claw, first personal slave of Variel and just happened to be named the Tenth. There just isn't enough.

[Brother Ambroz]

I think he's just letting us come to our own conclusions about it all. That or maybe he's leaving it open for Decimus' trilogy.... :D

[Warsmith Aznable]

Finally found this book in a store yesterday afternoon. I finished it before I even got home, of course. There's a lot of interesting stuff in the book, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Some things were tied up, but other loose ends dangled tantalizingly before us. I look forward to A D-B writing more about the survivors and what they do.

 

I didn't know that Jain Zar was a name, as unfamiliar as I am with the Eldar codex. Did A D-B really

smear a codex special character under the foot of a Dreadnought

? Or am I misinterpreting how the name was used here?

 

It was kind of funny how I could see A D-B's lectures about Legion fluff here on the B&C showing through in the book. Much appreciated, though.

 

I'm in the Decimus is

Octavia's son with Night Lords geneseed supplied by Variel

camp, but we'll see how it plays out. I'm not sure about the timeline thing referenced earlier, but there's a certain fluidity to both fluff out of universe and time in universe in the 40k setting, and this is hardly an egregious violation of either if it holds true.

[Legatus]

I finished it, and I liked it a lot. A worthy conclusion to the series. (Wasn't there supposed to be more?)

 

I had complained about a lack of progression or purpose with "Blood Reaver", but that was no issue for me here. I found their actions had meaning and significance this time.

And I don't even mean the big special attack on the surrounding worlds. That I could even have done without. To me it meant more that attacking Tsagualsa had a personal significance for Talos.

 

 

I really liked the transformation of Talos from a reluctant champion of the Company to a full on tyrannic Chaos Lord. There was a fanatic determination and a drive to his actions that I would expect and want to see from a Chaos Lord.

 

Lucoryphus was again a very cool character. But for me personally, Malcharion stole the show. There were still some "sweet moments" in the book, between Night Lords and their slaves, or between Septimus and Octavia, but somehow they did not bother me that much this time around. Either they were dialed back a bit, or I was in a better mood for them.

Malcharion protecting a human was just a very nice sentiment. I guess I can easier accept him doing that, since he is one of the "old guard", and he had not really been active since the Heresy.

 

 

It was sooo refreshing to see protagonists mentioning the Codex Astartes as something of value. And I don't even mean the reminisced battle for Tsagualsa. There had been an incident earlier, IIRC when they were fighting the Genesis Chapter (which I now cannot seem to find). Authors seem to love to belittle the Codex Astartes in their stories, no matter whether they have traitor Marines or loyalists talk of it. They either find it predictable, worthless, or just don't care for it. Rarely do we see good words for this fundamental element of Imperial Space Marines. To see a traitor of all people mention it with grudging respect was almost worth the price of the book. But luckily, the rest of the book also was worth the price.

 

I had two minor gripes with this book, if they can be called that at all, since they did not really diminish the experience that much.

 

 

The first was Xarls duel against the Genesis Champion. The encounter itself was well done, and props to A D-B for having the Imperial opponent be a very imposing and competent fighter. However, what bothered me was that Xarl, while ending up at a disadvantage, then turns around the fight by slamming his unprotected head repeatedly into the opponent's helmet. How is it that he comes out of that exchange on top? The "thrust to the torso" to stop the standing opponent from making the final blow also seemed implausible to me. That might be more believable if it is a human, having raised a sword, is being struck. But would it stop a Marine (who has a second hearts in case the first one is punctured) who has raised a thunderhammer from making the blow? The last bit that rubbed me the wrong way about the duel was that Xarl at two points jokes about the "speeches" of the lyoalist, commenting how "the thirteenth Legion always gave the greatest battle sermons" (where did that come from?), and how the loyalists "love to hear the sound of their own voices". Such comments seem extremely hypocritical when only a few pages earlier, when assaulting the helpless citizens of Tsagualsa, the Night Lords had frequently stopped to give little speeches themselves before making the killing blows.

 

My other issue was that special astropath death scream that took out several worlds. It felt a bit contrived to me (why isn't Chaos doing that all the time), and I didn't really feel it was needed at all. To me, this book was about Talos making a symbolic stand at their long lost (second) homeworld, and about escaping from the aliens hinting him to prevent him from potentially playing an important part in the future.

 

[Legatus]

Did A D-B really

smear a codex special character under the foot of a Dreadnought

? Or am I misinterpreting how the name was used here?

 

Eldar Phoenix Lords can be killed, but they reincarnate whenever another Eldar dons his armour. His mind and personality will become that of the Phoenix Lord. So it is ok if, after an intense fight, they "kill" Jain Zar. She will return.

 

[Brother Ambroz]

The first was Xarls duel against the Genesis Champion. The encounter itself was well done, and props to A D-B for having the Imperial opponent be a very imposing and competent fighter. However, what bothered me was that Xarl, while ending up at a disadvantage, then turns around the fight by slamming his unprotected head repeatedly into the opponent's helmet. How is it that he comes out of that exchange on top? The "thrust to the torso" to stop the standing opponent from making the final blow also seemed implausible to me. That might be more believable if it is a human, having raised a sword, is being struck. But would it stop a Marine (who has a second hearts in case the first one is punctured) who has raised a thunderhammer from making the blow? The last bit that rubbed me the wrong way about the duel was that Xarl at two points jokes about the "speeches" of the lyoalist, commenting how "the thirteenth Legion always gave the greatest battle sermons" (where did that come from?), and how the loyalists "love to hear the sound of their own voices". Such comments seem extremely hypocritical when only a few pages earlier, when assaulting the helpless citizens of Tsagualsa, the Night Lords had frequently stopped to give little speeches themselves before making the killing blows.

 

My other issue was that special astropath death scream that took out several worlds. It felt a bit contrived to me (why isn't Chaos doing that all the time), and I didn't really feel it was needed at all. To me, this book was about Talos making a symbolic stand at their long lost (second) homeworld, and about escaping from the aliens hinting him to prevent him from potentially playing an important part in the future.

 

 

With the Genesis champion the whole point was the Xarl died too but killed himself in order to finish the champion. The whole comments thing was part of the legion of hypocrites and also part of the reason why Talos/Curze hated their own legions in the end. At least in my opinion.

 

That though is a good question with the death scream. Maybe because the others weren't well enough schooled in torture? I'm really not sure there.

 

[Gree]

I finished it, and I liked it a lot. A worthy conclusion to the series. (Wasn't there supposed to be more?)

 

Yes, I recall an interview with A D-B in which he said he planned six books and Talos was going to be killed originally by Ragnar Blackmane.

 

It was sooo refreshing to see protagonists mentioning the Codex Astartes as something of value. And I don't even mean the reminisced battle for Tsagualsa. There had been an incident earlier, IIRC when they were fighting the Genesis Chapter (which I now cannot seem to find).

 

I’m rather surprised you didn’t take issue with the Genesis Champion getting angry at Xarl’s taunting, given how you criticized that in KNF.

 

And yes, I seem to recall a criticism like that, but I can’t seem to find it.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Thanks for the clarification, Legatus. I really don't know much about Eldar.

 

I saw the 'death scream thing' not being used all the time because of the attention it draws. Talos had a plan, or was caught in the grip of mania, but as soon as everyone else realized the extent of it they developed a sudden interest in being anywhere else but where Imperials could identify them as responsible for it.

 

The whole 'being nice to slaves' thing... I think the Night Lords behavior toward their slaves is fairly complex. While sometimes necessity guides their actions, at other times there seems to be a perverse concept of justice at play. And isn't that what the Night Lords are, perverted justice? At other times these Night Lords display a need for someone to be a witness to them, and not just in the 'tell everyone what we did here so they'll be scared' type thing. Octavia mentions that other Night Lords besides Talos have visited her and told her stories of the Heresy. There is the hero worship and awe they have for others, and they tell these stories to vindicate their own actions or reinforce their outlooks. The human slaves, the ones useful enough not to casually kill but also intelligent enough to converse with, they provide an environment for the Night Lords where they are on display, a sort of living legacy and audience rolled into one.

[Legatus]

I’m rather surprised you didn’t take issue with the Genesis Champion getting angry at Xarl’s taunting, given how you criticism that in KNF.

 

And yes, I seem to recall a criticism like that, but I can’t seem to find it.

From the top of my head I remember complaining about an Ultramarines Captain loosing it and killing a captive and Guilliman loosing it and spouting explentives at Lorgar's hologram. I don't remember the details of the duel regarding the taunts, but I think it was pretty much a case of him being taunted while they were fighting and getting angry at it? Here they were in a fight anyway. And while I would prefer not to see a loyalist let petty insults get to his head, being angried by them during a fight is not the same as loosing it in a conversation and starting to cuss or to lash out at people.

[Gree]

I’m rather surprised you didn’t take issue with the Genesis Champion getting angry at Xarl’s taunting, given how you criticism that in KNF.

 

And yes, I seem to recall a criticism like that, but I can’t seem to find it.

From the top of my head I remember complaining about an Ultramarines Captain loosing it and killing a captive and Guilliman loosing it and spouting explentives at Lorgar's hologram. I don't remember the details of the duel regarding the taunts, but I think it was pretty much a case of him being taunted while they were fighting and getting angry at it? Here they were in a fight anyway. And while I would prefer not to see a loyalist let petty insults get to his head, being angried by them during a fight is not the same as loosing it in a conversation and starting to cuss or to lash out at people.

 

Here is what I'm, talking about. At first he shows no reaction, then he get's angry.

 

 

‘You’ll scream just as he did,’ Xarl said with a smile.

 

The Champion showed no reaction. He didn’t even move. ‘I knew that warrior,’ he said with solemn care. ‘He was Caleus, born of Newfound, and I know he died as he lived: with courage, honour, and knowing no fear.’

 

Xarl swept his chainsword across the scene, gesturing at the prone forms of First Claw. ‘I know all of these warriors. They are First Claw, and I know they’ll die as they lived: trying to run away.’

 

It was the laughter that did it. His mockery of the Genesis Champion’s demeanour wasn’t quite enough to incite the Imperial wretch to rage, but Xarl’s laughter served as the coffin’s final nail.

 

Tolemion advanced, shield high and hammer at the ready. ‘Make peace with your black-hearted gods, heretic. Tonight, you will know the–’

 

[Brother Ambroz]

I loved that part with Xarl comparing First Claw to the dead Genesis Marine.