Finished Void Stalker, my thoughts

[Brother Parradin]

Here is my question. If Octavia is the 8th, and Decimus is the 10th....who was the 9th????

[Lexington]

Here is my question. If Octavia is the 8th, and Decimus is the 10th....who was the 9th????

Maruc,

for the short time he was alive to have the title.

 

[A D-B]

The timeline thing has a very mundane explanation, and that's "It's not wrong."

 

When it came time to do the Fall of Vilamus, practically the only info out there (and I asked for all of it) was in the current hardback rulebook, in that totally swish - but very brief - 2-page spread. And that mentioned no date, just "In the last years of M41." In a moment of annoyed desperation, I even checked Lexicanum before starting the book (same date reference there) and emailed Ye Olde Lore People, and got pretty much the same answer from them.

 

So it's a case of Vilamus either being never set in the first place, or it now being a couple of decades pre-13th Black Crusade, depending on which source you go on. I like to think mine's pretty definitive, but I'm not going to shed any tears if a future source says a different date. Tricks of the trade, and all that. To make it a bit more obvious, I purposefully didn't mention the Wolf of Fenris in the Red Corsair fleet, implying this was set before that event.

 

Hey, I didn't promise it was a fun-packed Scooby-Doo mystery. Sometimes it's tedious bureaucracy and date-slapping.

[Kol Saresk]

I could almost swear that is an admission to Decimus being Octavia's child. But I shall wait for any further installments. Must reing in the monster of assumption.

[Dark Disciple]

I do recall (please correct me if I'm wrong) that Variel had numbered his aspirants on the Echo, could be that Decimus was the tenth?

 

Disciple

[Kol Saresk]

He could be. But we don't know. It's all speculation.

[Lexington]

I think the suggestion's strong enough to be confirmation - it'd be a big, big oversight to leave something like that so clearly implied, and hinted about throughout the novel (

including a scene that's repeated to bookend the novel

) but then explain it away as "oh, Variel named them that way, too, no biggie." Aaron's a hell of a writer, and is really good at directing an audience towards details, even when we don't know it. Three more potential novels in the series, apparently, so hopefully we'll find out the hows some day.

[Brother Ambroz]

Did anyone wonder if perhaps Sevatar is actually alive after what Mercutian told Octavia? Probably a forlorn hope but that possibility kept coming back to me after I read that.

[Kol Saresk]

Don't forget, even Uzas wondered about that.

[Cyrox]

Did anyone wonder if perhaps Sevatar is actually alive after what Mercutian told Octavia? Probably a forlorn hope but that possibility kept coming back to me after I read that.

 

Yes, like kol says,

at one point Uzas asks that very question

:-)

[b1soul]

I had two minor gripes with this book, if they can be called that at all, since they did not really diminish the experience that much.

 

 

The first was Xarls duel against the Genesis Champion. The encounter itself was well done, and props to A D-B for having the Imperial opponent be a very imposing and competent fighter. However, what bothered me was that Xarl, while ending up at a disadvantage, then turns around the fight by slamming his unprotected head repeatedly into the opponent's helmet. How is it that he comes out of that exchange on top? The "thrust to the torso" to stop the standing opponent from making the final blow also seemed implausible to me. That might be more believable if it is a human, having raised a sword, is being struck. But would it stop a Marine (who has a second hearts in case the first one is punctured) who has raised a thunderhammer from making the blow?

As for the duel,

 

I expected a mutual kill. I would've liked it more if Xarl had just been killed outright. A mutual kill was rather...predictable, but I suppose a character like Xarl deserves a suitable epic death. The effects of the headbashing and the "thrust to the torso" didn't make sense to me either

 

[the jeske]

How is it that he comes out of that exchange on top?

all marines eat a past containing ceramite[the stuff tanks and power armor is made of] among many things [like drugs , hormons etc] . this makes their bone structure reinforced and far stronger then any human . Now a space marine that has been eating this for 10k years has his bones as armored as any power armor , without any buffs from being chaotic etc. So it is possible.

[b1soul]

How is it that he comes out of that exchange on top?

all marines eat a past containing ceramite[the stuff tanks and power armor is made of] among many things [like drugs , hormons etc] . this makes their bone structure reinforced and far stronger then any human . Now a space marine that has been eating this for 10k years has his bones as armored as any power armor , without any buffs from being chaotic etc. So it is possible.

 

Then it would be two really hard skulls bashing against each other, one of which is protected by a helmet. The guy without the helmet shouldn't gain the advantage from head butting. The loyalist's skull isn't any softer (and he's wearing a helmet).

 

[Kol Saresk]

Well Xarl's broken skull broke the Terminator helmet. That means the visual feeds are shot. And that they broke into his face. So even if his actual eyes survived, he is still blind. And well, I'm going to assume that you have never been hit in the head while wearing a helmet. It can still be very disorientating and still hurt like a son of a gun. Ergo, advantage.

 

EDIT: As for the gut shot, well let's think about it. Xarl is on his knees. The Termie is standing above him. Xarl stabs upward and manages to pierce the armor. He then starts hack sawing with the chainblade. This opens the wound further. This is where the biology comes in. Judging by the angle of attack, Xarl would have stabbed straight into his chest cavity. That would mean all three lungs and both hearts are at risk of immediate damage upon stabbing. He then begins to saw his way through the Termie. Hack sawing implies a back and forth motion, in and out, up and down, left to right. We are also assuming that the chainsword wasn't being revved, so it is simply a massive, serrated sword that has some serious weight behind it. He is cutting into and tearing apart the one part of the human body were most of our organs are placed with a chainsaw that weighs more than a Siberian huskie. Fatality is an understatement.

[b1soul]

And well, I'm going to assume that you have never been hit in the head while wearing a helmet. It can still be very disorientating and still hurt like a son of a gun.

I'm going to assume that you've never been hit in the head while not wearing a helmet. I don't want to sound rude but to illustrate my point, may I suggest you try the following:

 

1) Ask your friend to wear a football or hockey helmet. He's the terminator.

2) You stay bare-headed. You're Xarl.

3) Proceed to head-butt him repeatedly.

 

I guarantee that you will be in comparatively greater pain.

 

Now, a terminator helmet should be ridiculously tough. The difference between a terminator helmet and an Astartes skull would probably be even greater than the difference between a football helmet and a human skull.

 

Fatality is an understatement.

Instant fatality, enough to stop him from finishing the blow...questionable. I can deal with though. It's questionable because of how Astartes are supposed to be, but it's not ridiculous.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually I've been hit in the head without wearing a helmet, while wearing a helmet and I have headbutted someone who was wearing a helmet because I was in a fight. Can't really say I remember much of that one. The first one is one of many on a very long list of unprotected head trauma that would make Shaq look short. My most notable one was in a car wreck in the first grade were it basically proven by doctors that I take the term hard-headed to a whole new level. But this did not prevent a concussion and severe bruising to my face which has limited movement in the right side of my mouth as well as severe chronic headaches. The one with me wearing a helmet is any one of three motorcycle accidents where I landed on asphalt. The slowest was at fifteen miles an hour because I was in a turn and I had a choice between dropping it or hitting an idiot who wasn't paying attention to the color of the light. I think I can safely say that pain is a relative term in my case so I probably am not the best person to test this theory on.

 

And yes, a Terminator helmet is stronger than a normal helmet. My point is that while a helmet offers limited protection to your face and skull it does not protect your brain. What could be considered your most fragile organ is ironically your most vulnerable as it floats in water. So while your skull will survive the attack without harm, your brain is sitting there bouncing around inside your skull. Literally. With eight impacts hitting it. So yes, he was disorientated. Even if the helmet survived intact, he did not. At the very least, he had a concussion just as Xarl did. the difference between the two would be that Xarl's skull was fractured beyond belief. That injury is apparent both in the description of his indescribable pain and how he even thinks his face has been rearranged. Where as the Termie would be in hangover mode.

 

Although for your experiment, I would suggest either a racing helmet or a motorcycle helmet. They're a little bit stronger and have some more padding to help reduce head trauma. Not to mention they can leave behind some very ugly bruises behind.

 

EDIT: I also did not mean instant fatality. Just fatality. They would be wounds he would die from. His hearts were at risk of being injured due to the angle of attack and it was very probable that at least one was damaged.

[Cyrox]

Tolemion was not a Terminator

 

He was the Third company Champion. He has Crux Terminatus on his shoulder but so do plenty of Power Armour veterans

 

Read the the description of his armour, he is wearing Power Armour. His helmet is described as Crested, riveted and with an ornate bronze grill

 

Its almost as if ADB is describing the Forge World 2011 Boarding Marine from Games Day

 

Not only that,

he ends up getting decapited

, which would be hard to do to a marine in TDA

[Kol Saresk]

You got a point there.

[A D-B]

Tolemion was not a Terminator

 

He was the Third company Champion. He has Crux Terminatus on his shoulder but so do plenty of Power Armour veterans

 

Read the the description of his armour, he is wearing Power Armour. His helmet is described as Crested, riveted and with an ornate bronze grill

 

Its almost as if ADB is describing the Forge World 2011 Boarding Marine from Games Day

 

Not only that,

he ends up getting decapited

, which would be hard to do to a marine in TDA

 

Ta. Saves me posting it. I was wondering where the Terminator thing came from.

 

Besides, Xarl doesn't really come out on top. He

smashes his own skull to pieces and practically kills himself, just to disorientate the other guy and get him to back off a couple of steps.

That's pretty obvious from how First Claw look at him afterwards, but mostly apparent in how he feels after doing it, which has some pretty dense description about how much pain he's in, how ruined his skull is, and

the fact he dies literally a few minutes after doing it, despite taking "relatively" light wounds from the other Marine.

 

[the jeske]

1) Ask your friend to wear a football or hockey helmet. He's the terminator.

2) You stay bare-headed. You're Xarl.

3) Proceed to head-butt him repeatedly.

 

I guarantee that you will be in comparatively greater pain.

your head must be harder then helmet for that test to work.. a better test would be your friend puts on a leather cap [the one you put under helms] you head but him , unless you are realy unlucky and have to main point of contact at a metal stud he will go KO . that one was tested and it works . a chaos space marines skull after 10k years of living is at least as hard as ceramite plated helmet . ergo he can smash a power armored helmet that is not protected by a powerfield . at least not without chaos buffs or mutations. the trick with head buting is not to hit the other dude as hard as you can because if you do that at best you end up with both of you KO[and cracked skulls] its about hiting him pin point [to shake the brain] and spreading the shock of the hit on your spine and your muscles so you dont get as damged as your opponent is.

[Legatus]

a chaos space marines skull after 10k years of living is at least as hard as ceramite plated helmet

The members of Talos' warband had only lived for a couple of centuries after the Heresy. Time flowed slow for them. In the earlier books it had been said that they had been active for a mere century after the Heresy, though in Void Stalker it says that they had been active on Tsagualsa for two centuries before becoming an independent warband. So the members of this warband are anywhere from 200 to 500 years old.

 

 

Besides, Xarl doesn't really come out on top.

The heavy damage he took was obvious in the description. But I still got the sense that while previously being at the disadvantage, the headbutting exchange was what turned it around and gave him the edge.

[RapatoR]

Well there was bolter round bouncing from skull of Ragnar in Space Wolves series and did no damage. So I think, this is believable. :D

[Warsmith Aznable]

1) Ask your friend to wear a football or hockey helmet. He's the terminator.

2) You stay bare-headed. You're Xarl.

3) Proceed to head-butt him repeatedly.

 

I guarantee that you will be in comparatively greater pain.

your head must be harder then helmet for that test to work..

 

Also it was cool, and so I would here cite the "Rule of Cool defense". If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit.

[Vesper]

1) Ask your friend to wear a football or hockey helmet. He's the terminator.

2) You stay bare-headed. You're Xarl.

3) Proceed to head-butt him repeatedly.

 

I guarantee that you will be in comparatively greater pain.

your head must be harder then helmet for that test to work.. a better test would be your friend puts on a leather cap [the one you put under helms] you head but him , unless you are realy unlucky and have to main point of contact at a metal stud he will go KO . that one was tested and it works . a chaos space marines skull after 10k years of living is at least as hard as ceramite plated helmet . ergo he can smash a power armored helmet that is not protected by a powerfield . at least not without chaos buffs or mutations. the trick with head buting is not to hit the other dude as hard as you can because if you do that at best you end up with both of you KO[and cracked skulls] its about hiting him pin point [to shake the brain] and spreading the shock of the hit on your spine and your muscles so you dont get as damged as your opponent is.

 

 

The Jeske : killing people with head-butts since July 06.

[Kol Saresk]

a chaos space marines skull after 10k years of living is at least as hard as ceramite plated helmet

The members of Talos' warband had only lived for a couple of centuries after the Heresy. Time flowed slow for them. In the earlier books it had been said that they had been active for a mere century after the Heresy, though in Void Stalker it says that they had been active on Tsagualsa for two centuries before becoming an independent warband. So the members of this warband are anywhere from 200 to 500 years old.

Their age alone already makes them old compared to normal Marines. Uzas and Cyrion are warp touched. Talos is precognitive. The Exalted was possessed. They were showing the same amount of corruption seen in older warbands.

 

The time discrepancy isn't even much of a discrepancy. Talos was three hundred-something years old in Soul Hunter. But he was one of the last recruits from Nostramo. IIRC, there was a bit that said he was part of the last visit twenty years before the Heresy and he saw his own mother. She was old but we could guess that would put him at say, fifty. 200 years at Tsalgualsa fits in okay with another hundred-or-so years left for him. It becomes relative because you have to ask when the Heresy ended for them. Did it end at Terra like the other eight Traitor Legions? Did it end when the Night Haunter died? Or did it end when the Primogenitors rained down onto them?