Finished Void Stalker, my thoughts

[Brother Ambroz]

 

I am, for some reason, ridiculously bothered because Uzas loots a bolter from one of his dead squadmates in a flashback since his own is broken. Since Uzas' bolter in Blood Reaver (or Soul Hunter) was given to him by Malcharion (I believe at the Siege of Terra), this created an apparent minor inconsistency. Which is, of course, much more annoying than a major inconsistency. :tu:

 

I don't think Decimus is the son of Octavia and Septimus. I think he's named that because he's the tenth slave of Talos, in that he's carrying on Talos' mission/work/complaining. Also, him being the son of Octavia and Septimus would be the official Least Subtle Thing To Ever Happen.

 

 

I didn't remember that until you pointed that out. Hmm...strange as ADB's usually really good with noticing stuff like that.

 

I think he is but I don't think we'll ever know for sure until (if?) another book comes along.

[Kol Saresk]

He did say that the guy he was stealing from beat him in an honor duel. Maybe his bolter from Malcharion was taken as a prize? I don't know. I thought he just looted the chainaxe but I looked back and you were right.

[Brother Evar]

After reading this book I realized that the NL are actually more jerkface/prickish in this one novel than the other two combined. I like how Talos showed his true colours in the end and Octavia saw him for what he really was when he was with the Astropaths in the chamber. Out of everyone, in the end I actually felt most sorry for the Exalted/Vandred than anyone else. If anything the series has shown the NL in two groups- those who enjoy what they became and those who hate what they have become, living with their decisions and actions and just getting on with it.

[Plague Angel]

Xarl was a good man.

[Marshal Traben]

In this book Mercutian said that the Night Lords gene-seed turns the eyes black and the skin very pale. Regardless of whether they were Nostraman or Terran.

[firestorm40k]

I finished this novel last weekend; I can’t really add much more to what’s been said regarding the various plot developments (especially the finale), though my guess would be that A D-B will likely write a second NL trilogy which will fill out the details that lead up to the ‘revelation’ at the end.

 

I’ve got to say, there is something which bothers me about this trilogy. Before I get jumped on and torn to pieces by A D-B’s fans on here, I’ll start by ‘bigging up’ what I think is great about this series; that is, the characterisation. You might not really like all the characters, but these are the most nuanced and human portrayals of Astartes you’ll see in any 40k fiction. There is also some great musing on the nature of their characters (as exemplified in Octavia’s comment about them being ‘child(ren) in god’s bodies’ (to words to that affect) which as prompted discussion elsewhere on here. I really love it when BL authors get stuck in to and explore the philosophical elements that under-pin the essential parts of 40k. I whish more would do so.

 

Having said that, what detracted from the trilogy despite the strong characterisation was what felt like to me a strange lack of a compelling narrative. It’s as though these Night Lords drift through the galaxy mostly aimlessly, and then random stuff occurs. Yes, that is a rather sweeping generalisation. But with all that happens, there’s no sense that there is a compelling narrative drive. They arrive at

Tsagualsa

, they kill, then

the Imperial Marines turn up,

then they go on the run again, then

Talos unleashes the psychic scream,

, then the Eldar suddenly go after them. It all seems a bit random and aimless.

 

But, perhaps that is the point? After-all, it is a reflection on what the NL have become since the scattering of the Legion post Heresy, Kurse and Tsagualsa.

 

I think that a second trilogy, now that we have a sense of what the Legion are heading towards with regards to the Black Crusade and the ‘now’ of 40k, will not have this ‘problem’.

 

I suppose it is the price to pay for the strong characterisation – there are some rollicking 40k adventures out there which are memorable for action or plot rather than characters. I really hope that the next NL will have a gripping story-line that makes me not want to put the book down, as well as really great, fleshed out characters.

[A D-B]

Having said that, what detracted from the trilogy despite the strong characterisation was what felt like to me a strange lack of a compelling narrative. It’s as though these Night Lords drift through the galaxy mostly aimlessly, and then random stuff occurs. Yes, that is a rather sweeping generalisation. But with all that happens, there’s no sense that there is a compelling narrative drive.

 

In many ways, that was totally the point. I think it played out well given the series' reviews and feedback. And sales! Woo! But the point was very much to show what it's like when you have no great war; you're just alone, at a loose end in a galaxy that hates you, as well as the power of denial and self-deception. Ultimately, it's a story about how much people can change, and how some people just can't. How much compromise can you live with? And at what point would you rather just die, than keep living a lie? I love the aimlessness that pervades the series, and I think it shows pretty clearly as a conscious choice. They react. They never act, until right at the end, but by then it's too late for most of them. Redemption is lost - and did it ever matter in the first place? Really?

 

On the other hand, you're dead right. While it was a conscious choice to show them in a day-to-day barren drift of existence, that's definitely not something I'd do again. It breaks a cardinal rule of decent fiction ("protagonists drive the events, events don't drive the protagonists") and while there are bajillions of novels that break that trope for thematic reasons, it was extremely bloody hard, and I think it weakened - as you said - the narrative drive. It made life too difficult for me to want to do it again.

 

In short, yeah. Conscious, but I can say I've done it now, and be proud. I consider it a fun lesson to take into my Black Legion series.

[Malthe]

My favourite part was when Talos (I think after argueing with Octavia) looks up and quote "Death is nothing compared to vindication". That's the Night Lords, right there!

 

I usually think of Black Library fiction as cheap candy. It's sweet, immediately satisfiring, you can devour tons of it in no time at all, but your gonna get sick if you do...

A D-B's books are often an exception to this and for that I am greatful. All throughout a very inspirering series, 40.K-wise. Well done :angry:

 

 

Oohh, and I can't wait for the Black Legion series, they really, really need some love, even more so than the Ultramarines!

[Cyrox]

But, perhaps that is the point? After-all, it is a reflection on what the NL have become since the scattering of the Legion post Heresy, Kurse and Tsagualsa.

 

In many ways, that was totally the point. I think it played out well given the series' reviews and feedback. And sales! Woo! But the point was very much to show what it's like when you have no great war; you're just alone, at a loose end in a galaxy that hates you, as well as the power of denial and self-deception. Ultimately, it's a story about how much people can change, and how some people just can't. How much compromise can you live with? And at what point would you rather just die, than keep living a lie? I love the aimlessness that pervades the series, and I think it shows pretty clearly as a conscious choice. They react. They never act, until right at the end, but by then it's too late for most of them. Redemption is lost - and did it ever matter in the first place? Really?

 

Yep, thats how I perceived it. They were lost and for want of a better phrase, didn't know who to kill or where to go next. It seemed intentional to me

 

I'll tell you how well it worked - My missus has no idea really about the Heresy and Legions, and only a basic 40K knowledge from me and my 2nd edition books, but I've convinced her to read the series and halfway through Soul Hunter she turned to me and said "Ok, so i get it, these guys are renegades and badasses, just tryin to survive from one place to the next? And they don't like those evil gods?"

 

i was made up :)

 

I consider it a fun lesson to take into my Black Legion series.

 

Teasing git :)

[firestorm40k]

In many ways, that was totally the point. I think it played out well given the series' reviews and feedback. And sales! Woo! But the point was very much to show what it's like when you have no great war; you're just alone, at a loose end in a galaxy that hates you, as well as the power of denial and self-deception. Ultimately, it's a story about how much people can change, and how some people just can't. How much compromise can you live with? And at what point would you rather just die, than keep living a lie? I love the aimlessness that pervades the series, and I think it shows pretty clearly as a conscious choice. They react. They never act, until right at the end, but by then it's too late for most of them. Redemption is lost - and did it ever matter in the first place? Really?

 

...In short, yeah. Conscious, but I can say I've done it now, and be proud. I consider it a fun lesson to take into my Black Legion series.

Thanks for your candid and honest response. Seeing a response from the author that shows they're not adverse to 'criticism', and not only accept but share the view to a certain extent is a pleasant surprise. Not that I'm used to offering feedback to published authors... ;)

 

Besides, this raises to my mind a question about narratives in 40k fiction - I'm beginning to wonder whether there are only a limited number of 'story which work in the 40k setting - but this is a question/debate for a whole other thread I feel...

 

Anyway, whilst I look forward to reading your Black Legion series :D I do hope you'll write at least one more Night Lords book - I would really like to see the story of

Septimus & Octavia raising their child on the run from the Inquisition, and finding out exactly who Decimus really is...

 

[Dammeron]

There was a moment in the story where we see how aimlessly, hideously sadistic the Night Lords, even those that demonstrate some superficial standard of sanity, actually are. As Octavia observes, they are incredibly deficient in certain ways, i.e. their abilities to demonstrate empathy and communicate with one another. This section was one of my all time favourite pieces of 40K fiction, in that it encapsulates perfectly the ultimate horror of the Space Marines; not just the traitors, but the "loyalists" too, who are, in their own way, just as dogmatically murderous, stunted, barbaric and abominable.

 

I think the best way to appreciate the true horror of the Space Marines is thus: imagine any political, religious or otherwise ideological power that currently exists out here in "real life" developing something like them.

[Legatus]

Having said that, what detracted from the trilogy despite the strong characterisation was what felt like to me a strange lack of a compelling narrative. It’s as though these Night Lords drift through the galaxy mostly aimlessly, and then random stuff occurs.

That was what I had complained about with the second Novel in the series. I had kind of accepted it with the first one, because I was aware that it was the first book in a series, so was more concerned with establishing characters. However, with the third book I felt there was more "purpose" to the events, and if only because cleansing Tsagualsa was of symbolic importance to Talos.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I rather liked the lack of purpose, it did make the point of the Night Lords pretty clear or lack of. The don't have a cause like te other Traitor Legions, they are endlessly fighting a wa that started ten millenia ago and even they don't know why anymore.

 

The other legions have moved on, the Black legion accept they lost and fight for vengeance, the Wordbearers fight for faith, pure fundamentalism and the thousand sons/deathguard/emperor's children/Worldeaters fight for their individual god.

 

The Night Lords still live in the past, keeping old ideals and traditions alive even while trying to convince themselves they have abandoned them. The Black Legion have a host of slaves and servants yet the Night Lords have to scavenge and cannibalise to just survive becaus they can't let go of the past, can't accept the realities of their situation.

[Brother Nihm]

yet some Night Lords have to scavenge and cannibalise to just survive becaus they can't let go of the past, can't accept the realities of their situation.

Fixed.

[KhorneOnACob]

Just finished reading it today, and I must say I am impressed.

When Xarl finally fell I had this feeling he'd get back up, so I didn't think much of his death. But when Talos burnt the body and had his little speech about Xarl being a 'good man', his death actually hit home and I was genuinely moved. Kudos to you, A D-B, for making me sad at the death of a character who kills innocents by the hundreds.

I'm somewhat surprised the Echo didn't really get a scene of its destruction, I was expecting something from the point of view of one of the crew, or something.

Oh, and one last thing, in the second-last epilogue, what does; 'Viris colratha dath sethicara tesh dasovallian. Solruthis veh za jass... ' mean? I'm assuming it's Nostraman, but I don't have the other books on me to see if it has been said before.

 

 

Overall, brilliant book, and I can only hope the Night Lords get some love in the new codex, maybe even a special character... Variel or Lucoryphus on the tabletop, anyone?

[Ju'kosian]

Just finished reading it today, and I must say I am impressed.

When Xarl finally fell I had this feeling he'd get back up, so I didn't think much of his death. But when Talos burnt the body and had his little speech about Xarl being a 'good man', his death actually hit home and I was genuinely moved. Kudos to you, A D-B, for making me sad at the death of a character who kills innocents by the hundreds.

I'm somewhat surprised the Echo didn't really get a scene of its destruction, I was expecting something from the point of view of one of the crew, or something.

Oh, and one last thing, in the second-last epilogue, what does; 'Viris colratha dath sethicara tesh dasovallian. Solruthis veh za jass... ' mean? I'm assuming it's Nostraman, but I don't have the other books on me to see if it has been said before.

 

 

Overall, brilliant book, and I can only hope the Night Lords get some love in the new codex, maybe even a special character... Variel or Lucoryphus on the tabletop, anyone?

 

Sons of our father, stand in midnight clad. We bring the night.

as for special character.. Lucoryphus as he is a raptor !! First ones in................ (and apperantly first ones out :yes: )

NOT Sahaal, Variel is a apothecary, not very fluffy to have as a special character.

 

 

I liked this series, as I like every ADB book (except emperor's gift.. ) I'm curious how he will handle the black legion in his new series..

currently I still think abaddon as a serious failure.. and the black legion a very pale shadow of the legion they once were..

hope he can shine some new light on them.

[RapatoR]

Yeah Lucoryphus is cool,

but I would love to use Decimus. Yeah he showed up in last part but was such BADASS

.

[Bulwyf]

I rather liked the lack of purpose, it did make the point of the Night Lords pretty clear or lack of. The don't have a cause like te other Traitor Legions, they are endlessly fighting a wa that started ten millenia ago and even they don't know why anymore.

 

The other legions have moved on, the Black legion accept they lost and fight for vengeance, the Wordbearers fight for faith, pure fundamentalism and the thousand sons/deathguard/emperor's children/Worldeaters fight for their individual god.

 

The Night Lords still live in the past, keeping old ideals and traditions alive even while trying to convince themselves they have abandoned them. The Black Legion have a host of slaves and servants yet the Night Lords have to scavenge and cannibalise to just survive becaus they can't let go of the past, can't accept the realities of their situation.

 

 

Not all Night Lords are like that though. I think in Soul Hunter and in some of the comments ADB has made here that some of the former NL Chapters are fairly large warbands and they don't live the kind of scavenge to survive life we see in Talos's command.

[Bulwyf]

I finally got a chance to read the book and finished it in two days. Work gets in the way of serious reading it seems far too often.

 

I loved the book and was genuinely sad to see all of First Claw go. I will confess that as others have mentioned I had almost forgotten Cyrion's corruption until it was brought up. It seemed cruel to have Uzas die after finally coming to his senses and realizing that Cyrion had been the one guilty of hundreds of murders and had let his brother take the fall for it. To see Talos kill him after defending him for so long was rather sad.

 

It was a nice touch to see some of the more human moments in the Chapter. Malcharion defending the human and even commenting that his legend was supposed to have ended after beating the same champion twice but was instead consigned to defend one human alone in the dark where no one would notice. And of course he did just that. It has always rankled for me that most CSM depictions are over the top with brutality or evil simply for the sake of being the story's antagonist but out of all the Traitor Legions the NL are the only ones who actually tried to achieve a good end by bad means. Justice and Peace at the cost of Fear and torture. But in the end when one human life could be protected, why the hell not protect it against the xeno.

 

As others have mentioned the book leaves many questions at the end and I have to feel that was done intentionally so ADB can hopefully return to this plot line and reveal the fates of our two favorite slaves and their child. I also want to know what the heck Malek had been up to and where the Atramentar went. Needless to say we all want to see some revenge for Talos and the 10th/11th against the Ulthwé eldar with Decimus leading the way.

 

I have to add as a lifelong fan of the Night Lords it was great seeing ADB take up what Spurrier in a sense started with "Lord of the Night" and show the only Legion whose primarch hated his own sons and how their original intention of instilling justice by the fear of torture and death for breaking rules was perverted into so many (but not all) of the Legion devolving into simply enjoying the mayhem and murder for its own sake. There was always a strong vein of savage and saddened nobility in this Legion and through Talos we the reader get to see it firsthand. Well done ADB.

[Plague Angel]

Lucoryphus made me curious to see an entire novel from a Raptor's perspective.

 

And then I get tempted to attempt writing it myself, as ill-informed as that would be.

[Maelarion]

Sorry to necro this, but only just stumbled across this thread.

With regards to the epilogue,

the scene where we see Decimus meet up with Malek, Garadon and Variel and then proceed to out-badass pretty much every nightlord present, my initial interpretation was as follows:

The whole scene never actually happens. It's the prophecy the Eldar foresaw and went to Tsagualsa to prevent.

I'd have to go back to re-read the book to be sure, but that's my gut feeling (at the moment). For one, with regards to Decimus having Talos' geneseed and stuff, I thought there was pretty much not a lot left of Talos after he blew himself up.

Just my thoughts. Who knows, I'm probably overanalysing things .