new BA player, some quick questions about DC!

[madmutt]

Hi all, after not playing for about 8 years I bit the bullet and bought a BA battle force to start again, its a good feeling :cuss

 

I just have some questions about the DC, I plan to have 5 with JP and Lemartes as a deep-strike hammer (they just look amazing), and am a little confused about the possible load outs. I have looked around but I couldn't find the answers here, so apologies if they are out there somewhere...

 

1) From what I read here 1 PF, 2PW and 2CCW is regarded as as a good load out to be able to deal with pretty much anything?

 

2) I'm a little confused by the codex when it says that I can have them armed with a bolt gun or bolt pistol AND a chainsword, I have been away for a while but don't you need 2 hands to use a boltgun?

 

(and if I'm being an idiot, which I probably am)

 

3) why would I want to use a bolt pistol if a bolter has better range and assault?

 

4) is an infernus pistol any good with transports?

 

thanks, I really appreciate it. I will put up some photos of my new army once I get painting over the next few days!

[JamesI]

Welcome to the Blood Angels and the Bolter and Chainsword!

 

1. For 5 guys, I would consider 1 PF and 2 PW too many upgrades. I generally run 1 PF and 1 PW at up to 8 models in the squad.

 

2. You get the chainsword and your choice of bolter or bolt pistol.

 

3. Bolt Pistols give you +1 attack in close combat for 2 weapons. You don't get that with a bolter. Generally I only give guys with power fists or thunder hammers bolters.

 

4. Personally, I think I have enough melta to not need to give DC infernus pistols.

[knife&fork]

3) why would I want to use a bolt pistol if a bolter has better range and assault?

 

4) is an infernus pistol any good with transports?

 

Just to expand a bit on these points.

 

3) Normally you want the extra attack, but with smaller units of DC, podded DC, and DC without a chaplain/reclusiarch the extra shots might be worth more. Against large units or those that strike at a higher initiative the extra shots before the combat can be just what you need to come out on top.

 

4)I think the infernus pistol is well worth taking. Having a chance to gib any AV in the game will definitely come in handy at some point.

[Shivah]

You may want to reconsider deep striking the squad. After a unit deep strikes it cannot assault, leaving them high and dry for a turn. Probably getting shot up before they get to attack anything.

 

Personally, I like having an infernus in a DC squad, it gives them a shot at opening their own food.. er transports.

[madmutt]

3) why would I want to use a bolt pistol if a bolter has better range and assault?

 

4) is an infernus pistol any good with transports?

 

Just to expand a bit on these points.

 

3) Normally you want the extra attack, but with smaller units of DC, podded DC, and DC without a chaplain/reclusiarch the extra shots might be worth more. Against large units or those that strike at a higher initiative the extra shots before the combat can be just what you need to come out on top.

 

4)I think the infernus pistol is well worth taking. Having a chance to gib any AV in the game will definitely come in handy at some point.

 

thanks so much! so I guess that if I run the DC with Lemartes, pistols are the way to go forward?

[Meatcaber]

I am also new to BA and collecting my own DC!

 

Seems to me that boltguns are worthwhile if your DC are Podding it or going in on foot, but Pistols and CC weapons would be better for the set up you want as they'll be getting into combat much quicker. I would likely tool 'em up for CC if Lemartes was tagging along!

[knife&fork]

thanks so much! so I guess that if I run the DC with Lemartes, pistols are the way to go forward?

 

Yes, since you want to maximize the rerolls.

 

If you run crazy big squads of 10+ DC the bolters start to become attractive again, even with a chaplain of some sort. At that point you have more than enough attacks and the bolters add some utility with greater threat range and the ability to really force a lot of saves before the combat.

[Taz]

Ahh, Black Rage, the only mental disorder that strengthens your pimp hand so much it can hold a kicking bolter straight.

[DarthOvious]

Hi all, after not playing for about 8 years I bit the bullet and bought a BA battle force to start again, its a good feeling :D

 

I just have some questions about the DC, I plan to have 5 with JP and Lemartes as a deep-strike hammer (they just look amazing), and am a little confused about the possible load outs. I have looked around but I couldn't find the answers here, so apologies if they are out there somewhere...

 

1) From what I read here 1 PF, 2PW and 2CCW is regarded as as a good load out to be able to deal with pretty much anything?

 

At only 5 models I would go with one fist and one power weapon. If I'm running a ten man squad I usually go with 2 power weapons and 2 thunder hammers.

 

2) I'm a little confused by the codex when it says that I can have them armed with a bolt gun or bolt pistol AND a chainsword, I have been away for a while but don't you need 2 hands to use a boltgun?

 

Basically the choice is to either have them with bolters OR a bolt pistol & chainsword. So I read that as saying one or the the other, not both.

 

 

3) why would I want to use a bolt pistol if a bolter has better range and assault?

 

The advantages of each are as follows:

 

Bolter - Because DC are relentless they can rapid fire their bolters before assaulting which is pretty nasty. So you get two bolter shots from each guy with a bolter and then assault.

 

Pistol & chainsword - You get the extra attack in close combat. With a chaplain and when charging, you get to re-roll failed hits and failed wounds and its helps towards combat resolution.

 

4) is an infernus pistol any good with transports?

 

I find it is good against transports, but it is something that I use on my assault squads rather than Death Company. The extra die for rolling for penetration at half range, only 3" in this case is still surpriseingly useful.

[knife&fork]

Something to keep in mind when taking a DC unit; Do I really need the Chaplain/Reclusiarch? (Lemartes is a special case)

 

With a minimum 100 pt investment that's a valid question. Although he makes the DC better, in most situations you are better off using those points on extra DC models or more upgrades. An inexpensive power weapon will make one model score three times as many wounds vs MEQ. Not only on the charge, all the time until he is dead. It's a lot more difficult for your opponent to get rid of 6-7 power weapons than it is to kill a single IC and rob you of all the benefits he provides.

 

IC being an IC there are some variations and tricks to using him, but taken only to improve the DC it's a questionable investment.

[Taz]

With a minimum 100 pt investment that's a valid question. Although he makes the DC better, in most situations you are better off using those points on extra DC models or more upgrades.

 

 

That's a valid point, I suppose. I personally see rerolling hits and wounds always useful. Especially when you get into combat with armor or MCs (let's face it, it happens) and you really need every PF/TH wound you can inflict.

[Midnightmare]

Lemartes - I have a question about his Fury Unbound; his strength and attacks increase to 5, but are they subject to Furious Charge bonus (+1 making his strenght 6) and +1 attack when charging, and +1 for 2x close combat weapons? That makes a possible 7(!) PW attacks re-rolling to hit and wound.

[fivepointedstar]

Ahh, Black Rage, the only mental disorder that strengthens your pimp hand so much it can hold a kicking bolter straight.

sigged

[Deschenus Maximus]

A quick point about bolters: it can be useful to have 1 or 2 of them and the rest with BP/CCW because that allows you to do wound allocation shennanigans for free... useful for a squad with no access to invulnerable saves in CC.

 

My 2 cents.

[JamesI]

Lemartes - I have a question about his Fury Unbound; his strength and attacks increase to 5, but are they subject to Furious Charge bonus (+1 making his strenght 6) and +1 attack when charging, and +1 for 2x close combat weapons? That makes a possible 7(!) PW attacks re-rolling to hit and wound.

 

Yes, he becomes strength 6 on the charge and he still gets the extra attack for charging and extra weapon.

 

A quick point about bolters: it can be useful to have 1 or 2 of them and the rest with BP/CCW because that allows you to do wound allocation shennanigans for free... useful for a squad with no access to invulnerable saves in CC.

 

My 2 cents.

Completely agree. I usually take 1 bolter guy for that reason.

[Midnightmare]

Lemartes - I have a question about his Fury Unbound; his strength and attacks increase to 5, but are they subject to Furious Charge bonus (+1 making his strenght 6) and +1 attack when charging, and +1 for 2x close combat weapons? That makes a possible 7(!) PW attacks re-rolling to hit and wound.

 

Yes, he becomes strength 6 on the charge and he still gets the extra attack for charging and extra weapon.

 

Thanks James, I played my first game with him on Thursday and this was how I played him but he was so awesome after he took a wound I thought surely not!!!! He wiped out a Berzeker squad to a man, a squad of Chosen and the last three form another squad to clear me an objective. This man is an absolute monster for the points :) I am going to be building my Stormraven next me thinks......

 

@ Deschenus - that is something I hadn't thought of and will be definatly doing from now on :D

[TheHarrower]

Hi all, after not playing for about 8 years I bit the bullet and bought a BA battle force to start again, its a good feeling :P

 

I just have some questions about the DC, I plan to have 5 with JP and Lemartes as a deep-strike hammer (they just look amazing), and am a little confused about the possible load outs. I have looked around but I couldn't find the answers here, so apologies if they are out there somewhere...

 

Welcome back Brother! In my experience when running DC w/ Lemartes, you just need a TH and possibly an Infernus Pistol for cracking transports. Lemartes is going first with 4 attacks on the charge (7 if he takes a wound) and rerolling hits and misses. That is typically 4 dead marines before they can strike back. You have the TH for dealing with vehicles or monstrous creatures. Anymore than this is just overkill IMO. As others have mentioned, I wouldn't Deep Strike them. Keep them behind vehicles for cover and keep them on the board. Good luck!

[Taz]

I love how "wound allocation shennanigans" is now an actual technical term.

[Judaz]

IF you are going with 5 DC with JP's plus lemmy and you are going to deep strike them, I would only give them a powerfist and let 'em all have bolters. The reason for this is that your opponent will often be so scared of the men in black that he will focus his shooting on them.

 

If they get shot to pieces, some other guys have moved up unmolested.

 

If they live, the DC get to assault (hopefully) and you win.