Sniper scouts - are they useful at all?

[DarkGuard]

Socuts have 'infiltrate', which means they are deployed AFTER the LSS.

 

GC08 mentioned this in passing but didn't address it directly. Scouts have infiltrate, but it doesn't mean they are deployed after deployment, it means they can be deployed after deployment. You can deploy them normally but then they deploy the same as the rest of the army.

[Brother_Ovis]

Socuts have 'infiltrate', which means they are deployed AFTER the LSS.

 

GC08 mentioned this in passing but didn't address it directly. Scouts have infiltrate, but it doesn't mean they are deployed after deployment, it means they can be deployed after deployment. You can deploy them normally but then they deploy the same as the rest of the army.

 

What confused me was the description in the BRB, quoting: "Units with this special rule ARE deployed last", not "CAN be deployed last" - it didn't seem like an option. Well, still doesn't seem, to be honest, but I like Greatcrusade08s interpretation better :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

you cannot combat squad a unit, place one half on the board and the other in reserve

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is the first I've ever heard of this. I don't normally do it, but my issue is more with how this effects Dawn of War games. Situation:

 

Full Tactical Squad with Razorback. Heavy weapon combat squad deploys as one of the two elective Troops unit deployments, the other half in the Razorbacks remains back to come on Turn One. Is that considered being in Reserve? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not sure so I'm asking.

[greatcrusade08]

you cannot combat squad a unit, place one half on the board and the other in reserve

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is the first I've ever heard of this. I don't normally do it, but my issue is more with how this effects Dawn of War games. Situation:

 

Full Tactical Squad with Razorback. Heavy weapon combat squad deploys as one of the two elective Troops unit deployments, the other half in the Razorbacks remains back to come on Turn One. Is that considered being in Reserve? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not sure so I'm asking.

 

yeah since a squad is combat squaded at the point of deployment, then both halves must be deployed..

in terms of DOW, i thought a full unit was a single troops choice, its then combat squaded upon deployment

[Grey Mage]

Sadly no- at the end of deployment youd have to many troops on the field *potentially 4* it doesnt matter how they were purchased, it matters how they were deployed.

 

Same thing with their rhino for example....

 

you cannot combat squad a unit, place one half on the board and the other in reserve

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is the first I've ever heard of this. I don't normally do it, but my issue is more with how this effects Dawn of War games. Situation:

 

Full Tactical Squad with Razorback. Heavy weapon combat squad deploys as one of the two elective Troops unit deployments, the other half in the Razorbacks remains back to come on Turn One. Is that considered being in Reserve? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not sure so I'm asking.

 

You cant do that. Both halves have to deploy at once. So if you combat squad a C:SM squad you cant have their dedicated transport on the field. And yeah, their transport and other half wont be deployed, making the first half somewhat illegal.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That. . . doesn't sound right. I'm going to take a look at the relevant rules and not clutter the thread.

[Brother_Ovis]

Sadly no- at the end of deployment youd have to many troops on the field *potentially 4* it doesnt matter how they were purchased, it matters how they were deployed.

 

The very idea of combat squadding is to multiply core troops choices - it's one of the lynchpins of SM tactic. Besides, combat squadding takes place "when deploying" - so you wouldn't be deploying 4 troops, you'd be deploying TWO - and splitting them in half.

 

I'd say the combat squad rule from the codex takes precedence here over the rules of the mission. I'd even say that in most cases (if not all) rules from codexes should take precedence over the rules from the BRB, as a lot of codexes were released AFTER the release of the BRB.

 

 

So if you combat squad a C:SM squad you cant have their dedicated transport on the field. And yeah, their transport and other half wont be deployed, making the first half somewhat illegal.

 

Yes you can. You can deploy a dedicated transport EMPTY, without any troops inside. Was in some FAQ, concerning drop pods. And besides - dedicated transports are not Troops, they do not use ANY slot from the FOC.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Oooo, sorry, no, Ovis. BBB, page 87, under "Dedicated Transports:"

 

For example, a Rhino bought for a Space Marine Tactical Squad (Troops) counts as a unit of Troops...

 

 

And again under the Dawn of War deployment type, page 93, in the example area in italics:

 

In his half of the table, player B then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops).

[DarkGuard]

And again under the Dawn of War deployment type, page 93, in the example area in italics:

 

In his half of the table, player B then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops).

 

This bit, plus help from an FAQ, is why Imperial Guard can deploy a ton of Troops in DoW whereas if we want to combat squad we can only deploy 10 models. :P

[Brother_Ovis]

Oooo, sorry, no, Ovis.

 

I'm starting to think I should get a lawyer :)

[ShinyRhino]

Any unit that is not placed on the board during the initial setup of Dawn of War, and who has not been declared as being in reserve, arrives from the owning player's board edge at the beginning of their first movement phase:

 

All units that were not deployed, and were not

declared to be in reserve during deployment, must

enter the game in the Movement phase of their first

player turn by moving in from their own table edge,

just like units moving in from reserve.

 

The "just like units moving in from reserve" part sounds to me like you can decide to break units into combat squads on arrival. The stinker is that if they have a dedicted transport and decide to combat squad, the resulting combat squads have to use their movement phase to embark into the transport during the Movement phase. Essentially, move transport onto the board, move combat squad 1 onto board, move combat squad 2 onto board, embark combat squad 2 into transport. Done.

If they want to arrive inside the Rhino, they can't combat squad.

 

People HATE Dawn of War games for these reasons, and my FLGS makes a concerted attempt to minimize the number of tournament games we play that use it. I'd fully expect it to be gone in 6th Edition.