Potential GK recruit needs advice

[Roma]

So, heres the deal, I only have 20 marines, Im planning to build a GK list. The problem is, none of the troops seem as amazing as strike squads! I have plenty of terminators.

 

Paladins: I have to buy a crap and expensive HQ to use them as my troops, or at least a (minimum) 175 point non-scoring unit. They are ok, but seem to just about justify their expenses, but when compared to strike squads are sorta meh...

 

Terminators: at FIRST GLANCE VERY GOOD, and tey are compared to vanilla termies, but then I realised, what do they gain for +20 points? just 2+ armor and an attack, not enough in my opinion.

 

Im planning on including an interceptor+marshal combo for great objective steals (by making them troops), so that leaves me with just 10 marines. Ok I admit i have another 2-odd but they are chaos marines, and I dont want to resort to that kind of visual unnapeal.

 

So i need you pro's help, tell me are there units in this codex that can match strikeys as troops, am i missing something out on palladins? I heard people run good lists wth them, also I know of the coteaz MSU spam, buti dont have guards so dont bother. Please let me know soon as possible so i can get to listmaking!

 

p.s nemesis force weapon + storm bolter=+1 attack?

 

p.p.s any one suggest vindicare assasins, I never ran the unit but wanted to ever sinse i read sistersofbattle codex, they just seem so fun AND good, especially in this dex (bye bye Hq's like abbadon).

 

p.p.p.s Thanks all!

[Gentlemanloser]

I think it's widely known I don't think GKT are as good as an equal amount of Strikes. ;)

 

nemesis force weapon + storm bolter=+1 attack?

 

Nope.

 

any one suggest vindicare assasins, I never ran the unit but wanted to ever sinse i read sistersofbattle codex, they just seem so fun AND good, especially in this dex (bye bye Hq's like abbadon).

 

They are good. Best Assassin choice.

 

Edit: Whether they;

 

1: Fit your playstyle

2: Fit the rest of your list

 

Is up to you. ;)

[*Furyou Miko]

Terminators also gain Relentless and a 5+ invulnerable save, allowing them to use their heavy weapons and then assault.

 

p.s. a storm bolter is not a pistol, so no.

 

p.p.s. lots of people like Vindicares, but they would be cooler if they weren't men in zentai suits.

[Roma]

Thanks for your help, but why do you think termies are as good, lets compare: 5 extra wounds, 10 extra storm bolter shots in return for 5+ invul, 1 attack, and a better save seems like an unfair tradeoff to me. Relentless doesnt seem very nice, because psilencer is pathetic, psycannon is expensive. The incinerator, especialy with relentless seems quite nifty though... yes I can see your points thanks people. For some reason I always thought that SB count as pistols in terms of extra attacks.

 

I will post a list soon, please make sure to give me some advice on that too thanks!

[Roma]

p.s Can somone explain to me how GK are able to be shooty, psycannons are expensive, psilencers are weak (and almost not worth it cus u have to swap ur nemesis sword), and u can only have one of these per 5-man unit. Is it due to LRC and Dreads with psybolts?

[jamsight]

I am not really getting what you are saying, are you saying you just want to run a Strike squads to fill your troop options and have interceptors as your fast attack, or are you asking us whats better terminators or strike squads ? I would also suggest a Crowe List if you really hate terminators, Purifers are strike squads with anger management issues and most gamers fear them and since Crowe (spelling) makes them scoring then you could have maybe 4 units of 5 in razorbacks.

[Roma]

I am not really getting what you are saying, are you saying you just want to run a Strike squads to fill your troop options and have interceptors as your fast attack, or are you asking us whats better terminators or strike squads ? I would also suggest a Crowe List if you really hate terminators, Purifers are strike squads with anger management issues and most gamers fear them and since Crowe (spelling) makes them scoring then you could have maybe 4 units of 5 in razorbacks.

 

Im asking if there is a unit in the codex which can be taken as a troop and is betetr OR as good as strike squads, because i didnt originally see any, but so far someone said termies are as good, and I can see his point, but termies still dont seem to be as good.

 

I cant run a crow list, because me wanting something as good as strike squads is because I ONLY HAVE 20 MARINES, I will use 10 of them as interceptors, so my question is alternatives to strike squads?

 

My second question was what makes GK shooty.

[breng77]

If you only have 20 Marines and you are using 10 as interceptors, then you are taking 2x 5 man strike squads, which is meh, but what else can you really do. As for what is as good or better than strikes that can be troops...purifiers (though not if you only have 10), Paladins (if you buy Draigo, but they are expensive), Henchmen Squads (on a point for point basis are far better at what they do). The Terminator argument is always out there, and I have seen them used with pretty good success (though usually in Cotaez armies), but a Big Block of 10 Termies can be very good, and it would allow you to take a squad of 10 Strikes, and you would have your 2 Troops.

 

GKs are shooty because:

1.) They come with Storm Bolters

2.) Psycannons are not really all that expensive (10 points on most squads, more on relentless units)

3.) Psybolts...mostly on Razorbacks (S6 TL Heavy bolters) and Dreads(S8 TL autocannons), but some people use them in Large GK squads.

[adamv6]

Mucho shooty :)

 

Psybolts on 10 man squads. Purg Squads with 4 psycannons and Astral aim. Warrior Acolytes with Storm Bolters.

 

Mucho mucho shooty :)

[jamsight]

It's worth mentioning that you got to get to the magical 24 inch before most of you shooting is going to do anything grey knights lack serious long ranged fire-power other than vehicles. So be prepared to take a round or two of shooting that you can't really retaliate against this is my experience against Deathwing.

[Gentlemanloser]

Scout Razor 12", pop Smoke. Turn 1, move 6-12", disembark, Pew Pew with SB/Psycannons. (Heck, even deploy on the edge of your zone sideways, pivot Rhino, move 12" turn 1, pivot Rhino, disembark. You're now over halfway across the board, and the enemy long board edge is less than 24" away...)

 

Scout Interceptors/NDK. Turn 1 move 12" / Shunt 30", Pew Pew. Or don't Scout and shunt turn 1.

 

Turn 1, DS Mordrak. Pew Pew.

 

Monkeys.

 

Our 24" range doesn't always mean we won't be able to shoot from turn 1. :P

[breng77]

It's worth mentioning that you got to get to the magical 24 inch before most of you shooting is going to do anything grey knights lack serious long ranged fire-power other than vehicles. So be prepared to take a round or two of shooting that you can't really retaliate against this is my experience against Deathwing.

 

True for a Grey Knight heavy list, otherwise you have the Vindicare, Jokero, Servitors. And Vehicles add a lot of long range firepower with Psyfle dreads, and Cheap S6 heavy bolters.

[Crynn]

I think it's widely known I don't think GKT are as good as an equal amount of Strikes. <_<

 

nemesis force weapon + storm bolter=+1 attack?

 

Nope.

 

any one suggest vindicare assasins, I never ran the unit but wanted to ever sinse i read sistersofbattle codex, they just seem so fun AND good, especially in this dex (bye bye Hq's like abbadon).

 

They are good. Best Assassin choice.

 

Edit: Whether they;

 

1: Fit your playstyle

2: Fit the rest of your list

 

Is up to you. :cuss

 

I think it's widely known you are correct on all accounts

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Drachnon]

Thanks for your help, but why do you think termies are as good, lets compare: 5 extra wounds, 10 extra storm bolter shots in return for 5+ invul, 1 attack, and a better save seems like an unfair tradeoff to me. Relentless doesnt seem very nice, because psilencer is pathetic, psycannon is expensive. The incinerator, especialy with relentless seems quite nifty though... yes I can see your points thanks people. For some reason I always thought that SB count as pistols in terms of extra attacks.

 

I will post a list soon, please make sure to give me some advice on that too thanks!

 

Psycannon expensive? I'm going to have to correct you on that one.

Psycannons are super underpriced on pretty much every unit. Also our terminators are awesome and though I was originally sceptical at first as well after running them a few times I have to conclude they are definately a good choice.

 

Let's make a comparison to two squads one our terminators the other a space marine terminator squad.

5 GK Terminators 200 points base

Psycannon + 4x hammer (to make the weapon loadout similar there are better options here)

Total cost 225

 

Space marine Terminators 200 points base

Assault cannon 30 points

Total cost 230

 

Similar weapon loadout and pretty similar prices now let's sum up why our terminators are better then the Space marines

1. Scoring - Ours are troops

2. Grenades - Frag, krak, psyckout

3. Psychic powers - only +1 str or force weapon activation but keep in mind for hammers it's technically a +2 str bonus

4. Options SM:terminators can take a cyclone missile launcher but we can get all sorts of close combat weapons, banner for +1A (great on 10 men squads) psybolt ammo, incinerator for the same price as a heavy flamer but has +1S.

5. Special rules - Preferred enemy (daemons) and the Aegis (both a bit situational but its not like we really pay for them)

6. A grandmaster to get even more special rules. Which is what my personal list runs on. I run 2x10 terminators with pretty much all upgrades and usually give them the scout rule ensuring me I can either get into shooting range turn one or allowing me to outflank.

 

Now more specifically about the psycannon. The closest weapon to compare it with is the assault cannon, Psycannons are better. Assault cannons cost 30 points in a terminator squad (as shown above) other common options to get assault cannons are land speeders (40 points for the cannon) and razorbacks (35 points). We get the psycannon for 10 points in our basic troops at -5 on terminators and can get either assault cannons for the same price or what is effectively a psycannon at +5 (though our razorback are arguably better). And then we get to on every other unit in our army purifiers +10, paladins +20, interceptors +10 and purgation squad +20 (though no body seems to field purgation squads with psycannons).

 

Now the discussion on GKT vs GKSS is slightly different as here I believe it's more of personal playstyle. I don't like mechanized armies so I've made a GKT list which so far has done really. 5th edition however does seem to favour mech armies so I don't blame people who take GKSS and say it's better. I just personally think that GKT with a GKGM is just as good if you know how to play with it.

[Roma]

How do u get +2 str with hammerhand witg a thunder hammer? Multiplication occurs before addition so u still only get +1.

[thor1234]

How do u get +2 str with hammerhand witg a thunder hammer? Multiplication occurs before addition so u still only get +1.

 

If you read the description of Hammerhand (pg 25) it states 'note that this bonus is added BEFORE other modifiers and Strength Bonus' such as those from a DAEMON HAMMER

 

 

as to the answer to your question, why nor run 2 x 5 SS in razorbacks and a single 10 Man termie squad?should have the hitting power and mobility to deal with most situations??? that then leaves you able to use the other 10 PA guys as interceptors.......

[Lord Ragnarok]

How do u get +2 str with hammerhand witg a thunder hammer? Multiplication occurs before addition so u still only get +1.

 

If you read the description of Hammerhand (pg 25) it states 'note that this bonus is added BEFORE other modifiers and Strength Bonus' such as those from a DAEMON HAMMER

 

 

as to the answer to your question, why nor run 2 x 5 SS in razorbacks and a single 10 Man termie squad?should have the hitting power and mobility to deal with most situations??? that then leaves you able to use the other 10 PA guys as interceptors.......

 

so....

 

Strength 4 base + Hammer hand (+1)x2(double for Daemonhammer/Thunderhammer)=10

[*Furyou Miko]

Compare to the old Hammerhand power:

 

"The model gains a +2 bonus to their strength score. They may not use the special abilities of any close-combat weapons."