Malatox Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I was reading through some of the forums and of course I saw someone talking about Loyalist Legionnaires from the Traitor Legions, being lost in the warp and returning to fight for the Emperor even although their Legion was Traitor. This got me thinking about Blood Angels. What if, say a company or chapters worth of Legionnaires from the Pre-Heresy era were lost in the warp and only now return. First of all, what would happen to them? Secondly, how do you think the Red Thirst and Black Rage would effect them? Would they be allowed to fight for the Imperium? Become protected by the current Blood Angels chapter and be revered as Pure Blood from the days of our Gene-Father? Be deemed uncontrollable by the Inquisition and be hunted down? Would they be effected by the Curse at all? Or would it be a general, slow-awakening time of ordeal? How would they act anyway finding out that their Primarch had died and that the mighty Horus had turned Traitor? Discuss. Malatox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan II Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 i personnally wouldn't trust them for :cuss on the other hand i trust no one for :cuss but spending a few 10 years in the warp sounds like being corupted to me you are either extinct traitor or mutated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malatox Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'm talking about Marines who were lost in the warp around the time Sanguinius was alive, and stumble out into the Imperium as it is in the 41st Millennium. Malatox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan II Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 i was aware of that hell i dont even trust GK and they were inserted there by the emprah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserTJ1860 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I think a curse that can echo down through 10000 years could probably echo through the warp, especially if it was achieved with the assistance of chaos gods I imagine they would probably go through some Inquisition vetting process, but if if all checks out i think they would be repatriated into the BA, possibly back on Baal TJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivepointedstar Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I would think that the legionnaires lost in the warp could possibly be affected just the same as a non-warp trapped scion of Sanguinius. His curse isn't a virus, but is embedded in to the psychic presence of the blood of the primarch. Since a Space Amrine has certain organ that can share memories this and the blood tranfusion of a partially psychic primarch. So any aspirant that is given the blood and with the other organs in sinc will inherent these images, and eventually lead them to the black rage. As far as the Inquistion is concerned if the legionnaires that departed the warp were not frothing mad-men, then after there test the marines would be assimulated back into the Blood Angels chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I think you guys are kind of skimming over the elasticity of time in the warp. It's entirely possible that for any pre-heresy ship that were to leave the warp, on board the ship, a matter of months or years, perhaps even days or minutes and everything in between could have passed sidereal while ten thousand cycled by in realspace. Yeah, upon re-emergence the Inquisition would probably want to screen them, doubly so considering the gulf in view between the days of the Great Crusade and M. 41, but it would likely be a point of contention between the Inquisition and not just the Blood Angels, but probably their successors as well, because the returning marines would probably be viewed extremely reverentially, as heroes from the golden age of Mankind. These would be Astartes who strode the same battlefields as the Emprah and his Primarchs. Almost guaranteed the BA would close ranks if the Inquisition raised a fuss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdezFurioso Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Imagine the technology they would bring back into the fold o.o Can you say fast LRs for BA only much? lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 They would be under the current Chapter Master of the Blood Angels' jurisdiction, first and foremost, not the Inquisition's. Our Librarians would screen them and they would most definitely handle the situation in-house. IMHO, BA are above reproach regardless of what my Knights do on the battlefield. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 They would be under the current Chapter Master of the Blood Angels' jurisdiction, first and foremost, not the Inquisition's. Our Librarians would screen them and they would most definitely handle the situation in-house. IMHO, BA are above reproach regardless of what my Knights do on the battlefield. <_< It really depends on who gets them first. While the Blood Angels could indeed close ranks if they got to them first, I'm sure there are many Monodominant Inquisitors out there who wouldn 't even think twice after hearing "what? We've been missing for 10,000 years?" before declaring the purge. Similarly, I can't see that the Adeptus Ministorum would be too happy with them, what with the BA's whole "the Emperor isn't a God, he said so himself" thing the returned Marines would be saying. They might keep their bodies as sacred relics from the Great Crusade, but they'd be too "problematic" to have alive. Other Astartes finding them? As again, it'd depend on the Chapter, and their ties to the Ministorum. For example, I can't see the Black Templars taking too kindly to some Marines who've been in the Warp too lnog for their own good, who're spouting nonsense about how the Emperor isn't a God, and that they're despoiling the Imperial Truth. Chapters with close ties to the Blood Angels, or who take the more traditional Astartes stance towards the Ecclesiarchy, might shelter them, but I really can't see them being allowed back by an Imperium whose policy is "purge now, ask questions later". It should also be remembered that the example the OP is talking about, "Loyal Traitors" appearing out of the Warp and fighting for the Emperor, exists in nothing other than fan-fiction, and is viewed pretty negatively every time it turns up. In their case, everything I've stated above applies even more strongly to them, as they don't have the political backing to help keep the Inquisition off their backs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3052758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan II Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 so draigo has become fan fiction now this threath gets better and better xp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 My thoughts: I'd guess that any Blood Angels traveling through the warp at the moment of Sanguinius' death would be completely overtaken by the Black Rage. Each of them would have been injected with the actual blood of Sanginius himself (not just the diluted Sanguinary Priest version that is used during the current timeline) during initiation. So, arguably, such Blood Angels would have an even closer bond to their Primarch. It is, after all, the "psychic memory" within the blood of the Primarch that leads to the Black Rage. I would think that the psychic echo of Sanginius' death would have reverberated through the warp and effected those battle brothers traversing through it more profoundly than those in the material realm as that small piece of Sanginius within each of them amplified the event to a degree that even the strongest among them would have succumbed immediately. Beyond that, it is possible that a number of them could have beaten the Black Rage as did Mephiston. --just a thought. I'd guess that these marines would never be subject to the Red Thirst since, in my mind, this is likely a part of the flaw that has crept into the Blood Angels geneseed over millennia of insanginations. Gheller fields are supposed to protect a ship from the warp, but I doubt they are designed to run constantly for years on end. If these marines were lost in the warp for years (their own perception of time), then they might be effected in other ways. Sanginius' wing mutation, for instance might start to occur with regularity within their ranks. Also, a high number of them might start to exhibit some psychic ability of one degree or another. No doubt many of these untrained psykers might perish at the onset of their psychic "awakening" but some would surely survive. Any librarians within their ranks (providing said librarians were not driven insane be the Black Rage) would likely take it upon themselves to train such individuals to control their new-found powers. So I guess in conclusion, I'd assume that you'd just end up with a ship full of Death Company nutters, but alternatively, I suppose you might end up with a ship full of Mephistons with wings. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan II Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 So I guess in conclusion, I'd assume that you'd just end up with a ship full of Death Company nutters, but alternatively, I suppose you might end up with a ship full of Mephistons with wings. ;) i support both as tottaly awesome btw shut up and take my money Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Actually there are cases of geller fields functioning for years sidereal in the warp. I can't pull anything up as specific examples, but I've heard of cases mentioned over the course of inter-character conversations in books. My point was: Time is very fickle in the warp, while it's entirely plausible that the BA on board would have felt the long progression of years and degenerated, there's also the equally plausible chance that barely any time has passed at all and they haven't had time to degenerate, and of course this isn't even taking into account the echo of the Primarch's death, which, although it doesn't seem to be the widely proposed stance, that the geller field or even the warp might have even shielded them from the backlash. To be honest warp travel is one cosmic crap shoot. Sometimes you roll a seven and get there on time or ahead of schedule, sometimes you crap out and show up somewhere else, thousands of years later with more tentacles than a pan-dimensional sex offender from a Japanese cartoon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 so draigo has become fan fiction now this threath gets better and better xp In my mind, yes! ;) The new GK fluff is a joke, and has absolutely no internal or external consistency. On one hand, these are the guys who'll purge other Imperials because of the slightest possibility they might be tainted, but when their Grand Master is sucked unprotected into the Warp, only to turn back up later whenever there's a large-scale warp-breach, it's perfectly ok because he says he's not corrupted? Let's also not forget the many different layers of "incorruptible", yet they're still at risk of corruption. I was more talking though about the many people who get the "awesome" idea of "My Chapter is made of (insert Traitor Legion of choice here) who stayed loyal, but have been trapped in the Warp for 10,000 years, and the Inquisition lets them fight!" In reality, the reaction of the Inquisition would be "there's some Death Guard arriving from the Warp, saying 'but we're good guys, honest'? Purge them all! Purge them with fire!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain maleck Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 In reality, the reaction of the Inquisition would be "there's some Death Guard arriving from the Warp, saying 'but we're good guys, honest'? Purge them all! Purge them with fire!!" Too right, they will. Personally I feel that however those trapped in the warp experience time (probably extremely slowly, if the recent Night Lords Novel is anything to go by!), they will still experience the death of Sanguinius because of the pure blood of Sanguinius running through they're veins (like Brother Xeones said). I think the first reaction of our chapter would be one of jubilation. Here's a company, or more, of space marines who were deemed lost in the warp (according to ancient chapter records!) have reappeared and appear to be intact. There would then be a race between the inquisition and our chapter to bring them back into the fold. Only once the space marines have been found, would the inconsistencies between M21 (or whenever the Emperor was in his prime) and M41 become known. At which point, we would either hand them over to the inquisition, or close ranks and attempt to reintegrate them into the Chapter (probably the latter). Anyway, these are my thoughts. Cpt. M. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan II Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 so draigo has become fan fiction now this threath gets better and better xp In my mind, yes! :) The new GK fluff is a joke, and has absolutely no internal or external consistency. On one hand, these are the guys who'll purge other Imperials because of the slightest possibility they might be tainted, but when their Grand Master is sucked unprotected into the Warp, only to turn back up later whenever there's a large-scale warp-breach, it's perfectly ok because he says he's not corrupted? Let's also not forget the many different layers of "incorruptible", yet they're still at risk of corruption. I was more talking though about the many people who get the "awesome" idea of "My Chapter is made of (insert Traitor Legion of choice here) who stayed loyal, but have been trapped in the Warp for 10,000 years, and the Inquisition lets them fight!" In reality, the reaction of the Inquisition would be "there's some Death Guard arriving from the Warp, saying 'but we're good guys, honest'? Purge them all! Purge them with fire!!" like any right thinking person should do just imagine what happens if they are just outsmarting/outchaosing you on the grey knight it's quite simple its the knew chaos marine book xp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3053714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Well for starters, a lot would depend on the pre-heresy marines themselves. Let's assume for a moment that they've been unaffected by their time in the Warp, Sanguinius's curse and thought they were just popping out for some shopping in M31 only to rock up in the 'current' Imperium. It's going to be pretty obvious that something strange has happened. Even on the off-chance they meet someone with enough knowledge of the heresy and the warp to fill them in on what has happened, the story is going to be pretty incredible. After all, for those who don't know about the Dark Gods, the current Imperium is just about as great betrayal of the Emperor's ideal as it is possible to imagine. Many will assume it is some sort of trick. If a Librarian is present, he could possibly divine the truth. Regardless, their first move would probably be to return to Baal ASAP. For Dante's Blood Angels this will be a real mixed blessing. On the one hand, here are heroes of their chapter from the days of the Great Crusade, still carrying the unsullied blood of their Primarch and free of his curse. On the other hand, they seem to loath everything the Chapter has striven to protect for 10,000 years as a terrible betrayal of Primarch and Emperor. The Chapter is divided between these two versions of Imperial Truth and stands on the brink of collapse. Meanwhile, at an astropathic way station, an Inquisitor recieves intercepted transcripts of the comuniations between Baal and the ships of its long lost sons. Knowing the rift this information would cause in the Imperium, the Inquisitor marshalls his forces and heads to Baal to silence this heresy before it spreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3054046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 and the Inquisition lets them fight!" I remember a day when inquisitors were spies. The last time the Inquisition tried to arrest a chapter master, half a dozen other chapters started shooting them on general principle and they ignited the badab war... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3055317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 and the Inquisition lets them fight!" I remember a day when inquisitors were spies. The last time the Inquisition tried to arrest a chapter master, half a dozen other chapters started shooting them on general principle and they ignited the badab war... I suggest you read the new Badab War background. A single Chapter Master declared that the entire region was under his control, which screwed around with local trade. Traders got annoyed, and the Fire Hawks were only too happy to respond to their claims that the Astral Claws were heretical. The destruction of the geneseed tithe-fleet is still recorded as being unknown as to who shot first, but the War didn't start because an Inquisitor tried to arrest Lufgt Huron. When you actually look at the legality of it, the Astral Claws were entirely within their rights to act as they did until part-way through the War. Basically, the Badab War was "ignited" by a few trade barons crying to whoever would listen that those nasty Astral Claws were being mean, the Fire Hawks responded, and forced the Mantis Warriors into conflict. From there, it steadily spread, until Huron declared his seccession from the Imperium, at which point all bets were off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3055386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I'm not sure how you've proven the inquisition could arrest a returning loyalist lunar wolves company or group thereof..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3055390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I'm not sure how you've proven the inquisition could arrest a returning loyalist lunar wolves company or group thereof..... I'm not sure how you've disproved it? My evidence? The fact that the background is filled with accounts of the Inquisition declaring a Chapter "Excommunicate Traitoris". Just take a look at the Sons of Malice, or the eventual fate of the Astral Claws, or the Steel Cobras, or any of the other Chapters declared heretical. I don't need to prove that. The whole point of the Inquisition is to deal with cases of heresy and with traitors. What the point of my previous post was though was that the Badab War wasn't started by the Inquisition trying to arrest Lufgt Huron. The Inquisition only got involved once the War had already started. All the Inquisition has to do to "arrest" the Astartes is declare them Excommunicate Traitoris. If anyone chooses to dispute that, then it becomes a bit murkier, as the whole thing about the Imperium is that nobody really has absolute power over anyone else. The Astartes are technically seperate to the Imperium, and thus outside the jurisdiction of the Inquisition, but the Inquisition has "unlimited" authority to persecute heresy, and going against the word of an Inquisitor is always a risky move, even for the Astartes. After all, protected as they may be by their First Founding status, there are undoubtedly many, many Monodominants out there who believe the Blood Angels are heretical, degenerate mutants who have no place in the Emperor's holy Imperium. Let's say a group of Luna Wolves turn up one day. Soon enough, an Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus finds them. Now, under his studies, he's learned that the Black Legion were once known as the Luna Wolves, and that their markings/colouration match that group. The Wolves claim innocence, that they began their travel before the supposed corruption of Horus. However, as every good Inquisitor knows, "Innocence proves nothing", and also that the Arch-enemy lies. They may claim innocence, but it could just as well be a Chaos ploy to infiltrate Imperial space. Rather than taking that risk, the Inquisitor instead has them all executed, under the excuse of "processing" them individually. Other Astartes might find out, but by that time the Wolves are long dead, and the Inquisition would probably close ranks to protect the Inquisitor in question, using the same excuse of "better a million innocents die than a single heretic survive". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3055417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 and the Inquisition lets them fight!" I remember a day when inquisitors were spies. The last time the Inquisition tried to arrest a chapter master, half a dozen other chapters started shooting them on general principle and they ignited the badab war... I suggest you read the new Badab War background. A single Chapter Master declared that the entire region was under his control, which screwed around with local trade. Traders got annoyed, and the Fire Hawks were only too happy to respond to their claims that the Astral Claws were heretical. The destruction of the geneseed tithe-fleet is still recorded as being unknown as to who shot first, but the War didn't start because an Inquisitor tried to arrest Lufgt Huron. When you actually look at the legality of it, the Astral Claws were entirely within their rights to act as they did until part-way through the War. Basically, the Badab War was "ignited" by a few trade barons crying to whoever would listen that those nasty Astral Claws were being mean, the Fire Hawks responded, and forced the Mantis Warriors into conflict. From there, it steadily spread, until Huron declared his seccession from the Imperium, at which point all bets were off. Now now, let's not paint the Claws as the victims here. Don't forget how much a factor Lugft Huron's politicking and power grubbing factored into the tensions that eventually boiled into the events of Badab. The fact of the matter was he was butthurt he had gotten the idea into his head to cleanse the Maelstrom and the High Lords wouldn't give him the resources he wanted to persecute the campaign. So he started withholding genestock tithes so he could raise his own legion of Astral Claws (final tallies put the Claws at around 3000-some odd marines at the height of his strength) and by the time the Mechanicus finally got around to raising a fuss he went to the other Maelstrom Warder Chapters with an unnecessarily alarmist story of their sovereign status being threatened and they locked down trade routes, and the rest is history. Anyway, enough off-topic discussion. If you guys want to continue discussing the Badab war we should make a topic in Amicus Aedes or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3055869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLESHxTEARER Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Would they be effected by the Curse at all? Malatox After reading the blurb for the upcoming HH - Fear to Tread http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/fear-to-tread.html It appears to me that GW (or James Swallow) might be retconing the Fluff so that the blood angels have always had the flaw (sanguninius being toughed by chaos when he was taken from terra), but was kept under control by sanguinius while he was alive, this "taint" of corse would only apply to the Red Thirst as the Black Rage is caused by sanguinius' death. im not sure yet if i agree with this new approch, but well just have to wait and see if it works in the novel Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3057633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 My 2 cents: First and foremost remember that it is the imperium at large that venerates the emperor as a god.The space marines venerate him as a father figure and the perfect human.Nothing more nothing less,hence the odd relations between the echlisiarchy (btw the auto correction of echlsiarchy is searchlight....whatever) and the chaplain corps.So IMHO reintegrating them into the chapter would not be a religious/POV problem but a purity problem: How the <_< have you been uncorrupted for 10k years?Memph will have his way with them and that will sort out. Second.The inquisition will need to be informed somehow that a vessel or a small flotila of BA 10k years old appeared.Its not like when the warp jump completes every radar equivalent of 40k is signaling huge signs: Warning 10k year old blood angels detected!If that were the case they would have rounded up all the fallen Dark Angels themselves. They could also very easily pass up for new blood angels.I dont think the ship designs and coding or communications have changed too much in the last 10k.In fact there are ships that serve SINCE the heresy.So their configuration profile would match with the existing BA fleet and summarily been ignored or monitored as the habit of a lonely inquisitor(apparently they dont have inflatable dolls in 40k so they mess with other peoples business). So my best bet would be that they exit the warp.The planet/warzone they target is long gone,even probably been a meal for the nids,so knowing nothing they jump again to be lost for another 10k years(the irony,ok i am kidding here) and they set course for baal.Were Dante after he hears the news feels like a teenager.Memph makes his probes at them and they all live happily ever after.Well not really,go explain to them why they have to follow Dante,why the rest of the imperium is a religious decaying sinkhole and why the legion got into chapters and drinking blood. As for the curse,i have to say i dont know,but most likely they would be affected and it would be a strong card in order to reunite with the parent chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/251729-lost-in-the-warp-and-our-legions-curse/#findComment-3057908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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