Shiro the Betrayed Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 So when the Dark Angels find a Fallen, in the presents of others, such as Black Templar They usually leave not witnesses, right? So do they only kill their allies when only the First/ Second Companies are present, as would those DA who do not know about the Fallen question why they are turning on their allies for no apparent reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 There is no really hard evidence that DA kill their erstwhile allies while a Fallen is present. There are more subtle and efficient means to snatch a Fallen than grab him and kill witnesses. Especially because the allies don't know about the Fallen so they can just say it's a high value target (etc etc) and get the Fallen right under the other ones noses. So I don't think DA outright butcher witnesses but look for subtler means... even the BT incident is not proven that had DA involvement.. there's only suspicion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Never underestimate the Imperium. People get mugged coming home from work every day of the week. Sometimes... sometimes things just go bad. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 The DA are too clever to do things slipshod and just 'kill' allies. The BT Cruiser has nothing to blame the DA, other than suspicion, as it translated into the warp to never reappear. The DA do not always have to kill, you can mind wipe, bribe, threaten, just take the prisoner. The IG commander that captures a SM will not hesitate to hand him over to a DA Marine without question as he does not want him. Other SM Chapters will probably defer to the Unforgiven if they insist on the handover of a specific prisoner, as did the BT. They do not have to kill their allies. Mind wiping the two Hawk Lords who found the Fallen after he is handed over would be a common tactic, I think. They may not agree, but it does not matter as they will not know ;) of course, if theres too many to mind wipe, disappearance is a common occurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiro the Betrayed Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 OK so I am guessing that these tasks are performed by the first or second company, but are there members of the DA with them as support who are part of the rest of the chapter, that does not know about the Fallen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Yes, No, Maybe?... In truth the background is not clear on this issue. Ordinarily tank drivers are members of the cult mechanis but since NONE of the Techie types are induced to the inner mysteries, the current theory is that any tank crews or other specialists are inducted members of the Inner Circle that have picked up the required skills along their many years of service to the chapter. OR are kept sequestered away from the action when "bad" things go down. And the 2nd Co would not do any "Dissappearances" as most of them are not members of the Inner Circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Ravenwing works very close to the Deathwing in the hunt for the Fallen, so they are aware of some of the mysteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 OK so I am guessing that these tasks are performed by the first or second company, but are there members of the DA with them as support who are part of the rest of the chapter, that does not know about the Fallen? But if I recall from the Codex, they know better than to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I've never been a fan of that Black Templar story. It doesn't make sense to betray loyalists in order to cover up the past betrayal of loyalists. However, the Dark Angels don't seem to have any issues with mind wiping. So I imagine that is what is used most often. Edit: As a side point I'm wondering if the secret is even such a big deal? The other legions seem to be able to get away with things that are just as bad if not worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Hail Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 What is known is the tip of the iceberg, if I utter any more here and I'll be off to cell 42.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadow Guard Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 OK so I am guessing that these tasks are performed by the first or second company, but are there members of the DA with them as support who are part of the rest of the chapter, that does not know about the Fallen? It's worth remembering that there are many circles within each other, the Inner Circle is the one we speak mostly about. All members of the first company are members of Deathwing as are all company commanders and some members of the second comopany. From the book Angels of Darkness and the 3rd ed codex where you could upgrade a squad sergeant to Deathwing, we know that members of the battle companies may well be inducted in to Deathwing either overtly or covertly without their comrades knowing about it. So the 1st company could get help from the other elements but is likely to have hidden Deathwing members around to control the dissemination of information. It is also worth looking at the greater picture. The number of fallen a finite but scattered not only over space but also time. SO the number of times the Unforgiven launch an operation and capture fallen will be minute compared to the number of other engagements they perform. So, if they do "disappear"some innocents, that will be an extremely rare event and be rarely noticed amongst the myriad operations conducted by them... me thinks anyway! ;) SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong. I can't remember which story kinda explains it. Anyways, Greenwing will secure an area, Ravenwing will scout and secure a smaller specific 1, then Deathwing teleports in capture then the "Special" Thunderhawks come in and evacuate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Angels of Darkness points out something similar with the tale of Astellan.It was power armored marines that made the breach to the inner sanctum and effectively capture him.However they were ordered to hold position and keep the prisoner until the deathwing arrived.The marines were very confused about the whole prospect but confusion was the only thing that remained.The matter was never spoke of again me thinks. As for the killing of allied forces.I would say it is not so much killing as 'conveniently dispose' of said forces.I dont think a DA force would openly attack any other loyalist force except if the stakes are too high for exposure.So giving them the 'honor' of running through a suicide mission or allowing them to become stranded in the middle of the enemy due to 'vox interference' or 'enemy cross fire' and similar 'problems' would take things in the desired way. Not to say that they wont kill anyone who got too close to their private diaries though.If anyone remembers please quote the source cause i dont,but there was a story where an inquisitor learned of the secret and he was bleeding to death.Then an Interrogator goes up to him saying something akin to:Good thing you are dying because i didnt want to put a round through your skull. But that was something extreme.At what rate do outside parties ever learn anything at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadow Guard Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Well, after the first battle for armaggeddon,the entire surviving civilian population of that world along with all the brave human troops were sent off to labour camps to die by the Inquisition, simply because they had witnessed the presence of chaos..... so what's a fellow spacemarine's battlebarge or an imperial Guard regiment going missing by the unforgiven? :P :) SG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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