The Primarchs... The Lion.

[FerociousBeast]

As for the decapitation, the Lion was absolutely not justified in it. N held himself to the Emperor's edict, which was the correct course of action. Obeying Primarch rather than Emperor was the precise offense that led the Traitor Legions into heresy, so we cannot condemn N for resisting that course of action.

 

That said, I suspect that the Lion going Khorne-happy there for a minute was primarily a joke and/or plot gimmick from Gav signifying that the story arc from Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels was done with in favor of the direction and characters ADB had set up. While the event can't be ignored, I don't give it much weight and I don't think many future writers will follow that supposed thread in the Lion's character.

[Brother Immolator]

I am with shadowguard in this (obviously). We are not discussing about a humane democratic stable and peaceful environment. We are discussing about half a galaxy wide dictatorship that finds itself engulfed in a civil war which will ripple through the rest of the galaxy and either make or destroy it (the galaxy).

 

Further more those of the guys and gals who have served in warzone (notice the term warzone and not peacekeeping occupation/deployment) in our time, know that the commanding officer has the right to summary execute anyone that denies even the simplest orders by virtue of treason. People think that commissars are copy paste of soviet union officers (and partly they are) but seem to forget that in reality a commissar is really a hyperbole of today's reality as well.

 

So multiply this a few thousand times in order to reflect the general situation of 40k and you have a rough estimate of why it was not such a big thing.

Further more the form of execution was brutal and bare handed Imho, as to display the difference in power and stature between a space marine (a perfect killing machine yada,yada) vs a Primarch (a step down the ultimate perfection that is depicted to be the emprah)

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

My own thoughts on the beheading: the Lion had never experienced being filled with rage towards someone, but having to not strike them down. When he raised his hand to discipline Nemiel, it was a first time for him to do so, as so far everyone had done as he commanded out of duty and kinship. And since all the blows he had ever struck were in the context of a fight to the death, he did not know how to control his considerable might. Hence, his dismay when he realized what he had done; do notice that he said they would mourn him later. He would not mourn someone he felt deserved death.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Brother I: I agree with you on the 'legality' of the summary execution for dissadent behaviour, what I don't like is the very poor leadership style it showed (when you look at Lion's mannerisms/comments about it).

Nemial was acting as an advisor and was advocating upholding the law as the Emprah himself has decreed, the Lion, who claims to be 100% loyal to that very same Emprah was showing the same level of dissence to E as Nemial was to him.

 

Nemial was not being treasonous, he was not trying to fight the Lion or depose him(can't check book here, so going on memory), he definately held the legal Right according to the Emprah and I think the Lion should have respected that his 'little brothers' have the strength of character to voice disagreements without fear of instant death. Leading by fear is not leading, it is merely commanding.

That Jonson lost control shows he was acting like an impatient child and showed he can't handle the stress of being second guessed.

 

I do like the fact that the Lion did in fact chuck out the Nikaea(sp) Decree, gotta like LEJ's forward leadership style in that respect. I never advocate the blind following of orders, that is why the Lions' hypocrasy doesn't sit right with me.

Just not happy with the writers decision to do it the way he did.

 

EDIT: To be fair to Gav, it was very 30k-ish and I am liking his current work much more than some of his earlier stuff.

 

(22ish years Army, I must be getting soft ;))

 

:)

stobz

[Brother Immolator]

Hey stobz,i fully have your back there and fully agree with you.But we cant forget the setting.Thats all i say.We cant judge from our perspective of the world an action that had taken place in the 40k world (which mentally and situational is on the brink of collapse during 30k and later in 40k is beyond madness) on equal footing.

 

Executing someone because he barely questioned something and suggested something else not only shows inability to command but also speaks tomes of the persons mental instability.Nowdays at least.

 

However 30k/40k is another matter.I believe that the action was not a rushed one nor taken lightly,hence the mourning.IMHO the Lion forced Namiel to become a martyr.By executing him he instantly silenced any voice against his authority by making a gruesome example.The Lion knows what psykers are capable of and how much they are needed.The emperor hosted a whole summit to do what?Withdraw a decision he took in the first place by taking advice from people who feared something that were unable to control and understand thus removing a powerful tool from those who knew how to use it.

Even without the divine status of the emperor established, his word was law.Go now explain to Namiel think alikes,that the emperor has been dissuaded by fools and made a mistake (one in a very long line of mistakes). The Lion just teared him apart so than none dare question him,he didnt have the time to discuss this nor was it a democratic form of ruleship.

 

I again dont say it was the right decision morally,but it was the right one based on the perspective of 30k/40k.Cold unfettered logic. The straight line is the shortest one.

 

EDIT:So effectively it was neither hypocrisy or a mental collapse/rage.But a calculated sacrifice.At least IMHO.

 

EDIT 2:Good to see a career man thinking for himself.I believe there is a shortage of those types out there.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I am getting soft :), it's all about context as you say.

Grimdark ftw!!!

 

stobz

[Phoebus]

I don't know...

 

I completely agreed with the Lion in that it was obviously the right call to bring in the Librarians. Common sense, logic over blind dogma, and all that. And that's the problem. Killing Nemiel out of hand strikes me as just contrary to that logical thinking the Lion displayed. Even within the realm of 40k, which is qualified as being "worse" than 30k, several novels and short stories have shown the distinction between good and bad leadership - killing people out of hand falls within the latter, and this is often conveyed by characters, not implied by the author.

 

Respectfully, I don't see how this is a form of martyrdom. The Lion gained nothing from Nemiel's slaughter other than making the impression to his subordinates that he was definitely merciless, and potentially unbalanced. Where will he draw the line? Any reminder of Imperial law that runs contrary to his immediate wishes, or even just criticism? Keep going down that path, and how long is it before your ship's officers start wondering whether you, too, are a rebel? You can't lucidly explain to Nemiel that the Edicts of Nikaea were delivered at a time of peace and at a time when fighting creatures within the Empyrean was considered? But you can converse rationally with a Greater Daemon and a xenos Warp/machine entity?

 

Sorry, this strikes me as a rather ham-fisted way to either (A) remove the Zahariel-Nemiel subplot from the greater storyline or (:) generate the sort of tension that would potentially turn Zahariel against the Lion. BUT, it's just my opinion!

 

End of the day, I thought "The Lion" was a good story, but not necessarily great. I thought it had many cool hooks, but it also suffered from the implausible and/or poorly explained conveyed*.

 

 

* Like letting Typhon go to serve as a super-glorified bearer of the Lion's message. I get Typhon can't die here, but either don't introduce him or have him plausibly escape instead. Either would be better than a Loyalist super-genius Primarch holding an armistice with known traitors. All I got out of this was that the Lion is planning on some sort of "long game" wherein he's somehow going to use his Legion to keep either the Traitors or Guilliman from winning the Throne. I struggle to see how he and his 100,000 Astartes will do so against either side without taking the opportunity to remove significant numbers of either faction while he holds overwhelming advantages and they are too busy waging a Heresy against one another. The idea that he was going to just sit on the side and hope that whoever won also only had =/< 100k Astartes just doesn't stand to reason. Again, IMHO.

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

I guess what the author (and Brother Immolator correctly clarifies) is saying is that LEJ is in fact a nutter, for right or wrong, lawful or unlawful, loyal or traitor, he is an OTT psycopathic nutter much like all the other primarchs.

It's how the ooniverse operates in 30k and even moreso in 40k.

 

Applying todays morality is futile, there is only WAR!!!!!!!!!!! (smells like chicken)

 

Of course the Lion could have said "sergeant, disarm Nemiel and I'll deal with his dissention later" instead of mourn him later but it is what it is.

 

stobz

[Brother Immolator]

Respectfully, I don't see how this is a form of martyrdom. The Lion gained nothing from Nemiel's slaughter other than making the impression to his subordinates that he was definitely merciless, and potentially unbalanced. Where will he draw the line? Any reminder of Imperial law that runs contrary to his immediate wishes, or even just criticism? Keep going down that path, and how long is it before your ship's officers start wondering whether you, too, are a rebel? You can't lucidly explain to Nemiel that the Edicts of Nikaea were delivered at a time of peace and at a time when fighting creatures within the Empyrean was considered? But you can converse rationally with a Greater Daemon and a xenos Warp/machine entity?

 

A couple of thoughts to keep things going.

 

I believe you missed the point of a person been a primarch in 40k.There is no thought in the mind of a space marine that his primarch is unbalanced or when will he draw the line.There is no line for the primarch,he is always correct and thats it.If he killed someone he did for some reason that the lesser beings have not fathomed yet including the marines themselves.The luna wolves even turned because they thought Horus was correct and the emperor was not.

I would like to remind,that we cant judge things from our own time and omnipotent perspective.If things were like you describe then most likely the heresy would not have happened at all since only how many marines suspected that something was amiss with horus until it was too late?Five?By your thinking the very idea of going against the emperor would have made them gun horus down.Something like that might have happened to a human army with a human officer but not to the marines.

You give the marines too much credit.For all their enchanted intelligence their minds are too narrow to comprehend certain things an everyday human would have thought of.Further more the very image of a primarch is enough to give you pause and mesmerize you and quell any doubts.

 

As for criticism.What criticism?The same one that allowed the Luna wolves to trample some hundred people and lass at them in frustration?There was some complaining amid the humans, but the marines were 'freaked out' so what if we killed a few bystanders?

 

As for what he gained ill simply repeat it.The forced silence of anyone who had the ideas of Namiel and the end of the threat of perpetuating this ideas further that would bring.Because if he would continue to blather about it,then it was fated that at some point he would gather support and create thoughts such as those that you describe amid the troops.It was a blatant act but a quick one.There is a sarcastic saying in my country:Got a headache?Cut the head.I feel it sums this situation up.

 

And finally no you cant explain it to him because standard imperial doctrine of the time enforced that such things did not exist.Even among marines.And i doubt that Namiel or anyone else knew except the librarians and the Lion what the heck those things were in actuality.

 

EDIT:Hope i make sense,i am sleepy will add my thoughts morrow morning.Sorry if it came harsh in some sections.Not intended.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I agree with Brother I here, initially I dislike the beheading, but, the more I thought on it, while I still dislike it, I can see why the Lion did it, and, to be frank, I think it was not intended to kill him. The Lion was not aware of his own strength and power in this occasion.

 

I also think its a reason to get rid of Nemiel :unsure:

 

I loved the story, I felt it removed the poor depiction of Jonson in Fallen and Descent of Angels showing him to be pretty awesome. As for letting Typhon go, I think he wants to end the Heresy and bring back Horus, I don't think he realises the grip of chaos at this point in time, though I am sure hes gonna find out sooner or later exactly the power/hold/grip it has over his brothers.

[Arioch]

Nemiel had to die because Gav willed it. I think it was a terrible decision, when I think of the possibilities the character had. There will be no reunion between Zahariel and Nemiel now, but oh well, maybe Luther will chop Zahariels head of and the balance will be restored?

 

I remember ADB saying he didnt like any of the Dark Angels characters. Maybe Gav took this a little to literaly and decided to kill Nemiel? Making the Lion do it seems a bit out of character for him. Nemiel was a veteran brother, one of his best men and Johnson simply kill him- What the :D ??!

 

I dont think the execution meant anything to the story or the Lion as a character, just an easy way to get rid of an unwanted character. Much easier than to simply develop him. Stupid.

[Phoebus]

I believe you missed the point of a person been a primarch in 40k.There is no thought in the mind of a space marine that his primarch is unbalanced or when will he draw the line.There is no line for the primarch,he is always correct and thats it.If he killed someone he did for some reason that the lesser beings have not fathomed yet including the marines themselves.The luna wolves even turned because they thought Horus was correct and the emperor was not.

I would like to remind,that we cant judge things from our own time and omnipotent perspective.

My complaint was leveled more to the Lion's action than his subordinates' reaction, to be honest.

 

Still, though, when I framed my argument, I like to think that I did so with "30k lenses on". Ultimately, you have to remember that not all Legions have the same mindset. Compare the cult of personality, adoration, etc., that Horus enjoys... and then compare it to Vlka Fenryka/Space Wolves. Compare it to the Alpha Legion. Or, heck, compare it to the Dark Angels. Different Legions, different themes, different mindsets, different leadership styles. So I think it's inevitable that there will be different responses.

 

As for what he gained ill simply repeat it.The forced silence of anyone who had the ideas of Namiel and the end of the threat of perpetuating this ideas further that would bring.Because if he would continue to blather about it,then it was fated that at some point he would gather support and create thoughts such as those that you describe amid the troops.It was a blatant act but a quick one.There is a sarcastic saying in my country:Got a headache?Cut the head.I feel it sums this situation up.

Agree to disagree, then. Point of fact, what the Lion showed was that his might trumped law, period. Given that their whole war against Horus is meant to ensure the rule of law, that sets a dangerous precedent. In no way would having Nemiel confined until a tribunal could be had, wherein the Lion could lucidly (and very convincingly, IMHO) point out that the conditions they faced required him to think beyong Nikaea, be worse than summary execution. Why? Because Nemiel's death would have done nothing to stifle any legitimate opposition to begin with. The first five books of the Horus Heresy show us this, when even Astartes from Legions that practically worship their Primarch end up putting up opposition of meaningful numbers.

 

And finally no you cant explain it to him because standard imperial doctrine of the time enforced that such things did not exist.Even among marines.And i doubt that Namiel or anyone else knew except the librarians and the Lion what the heck those things were in actuality.

I'm not really worried about Nemiel. Maybe in a cooler moment he would accept the Lion's information re: Warp entities, much like Loken accepted Horus'. Or maybe he wouldn't. That's neither here nor there, though: my point is that a summary execution was unnecessary and likely to lead to negative consequences later on.

 

EDIT:Hope i make sense,i am sleepy will add my thoughts morrow morning.Sorry if it came harsh in some sections.Not intended.

No offense taken! <_<

 

I guess what the author (and Brother Immolator correctly clarifies) is saying is that LEJ is in fact a nutter, for right or wrong, lawful or unlawful, loyal or traitor, he is an OTT psycopathic nutter much like all the other primarchs.

It's how the ooniverse operates in 30k and even moreso in 40k.

 

Applying todays morality is futile, there is only WAR!!!!!!!!!!! (smells like chicken)

 

Of course the Lion could have said "sergeant, disarm Nemiel and I'll deal with his dissention later" instead of mourn him later but it is what it is.

 

stobz

And that's the thing. If you look back at "Horus Rising" and "False Gods", there was at least this transition period where Horus went from benevolent and idealistic (by 30k standards) warlord to megalomaniacal servant of Chaos.

 

I'm going to guess that Gav's description of the Lion bearing "inner wounds" is supposed to be my cue for the Lion's impending instability?

 

Arioch, Brother-Sergeant Bohemond,

 

I, too, think that Nemiel was just meant to die. I just think the Lion was a poor vehicle for said death, unless the aim was to get Zahariel set against him. Either way, though, the way Gav chose to execute it didn't do justice to the Lion (IMHO). I imagine the idea, like Stobz offered, was that the Lion was traumatized by what the Night Haunter told him, and this led to an "uncharacteristic outburst". All the same, I still think it was poorly done.

 

The story as a whole, though? Good. Enjoyable. There were just things I didn't like about it, which kept me from really embracing it:

1. The way Nemiel died (and, believe it or not, I never really liked the character!);

2. Corswain's feelings of fear (perhaps it's because I like the Dark Angels so much, but I resented the fact that Corswain's instinct was to flee, whereas Abnett had his Ultramarine equivalent ready to do the man-dance with a hulking daemon);

3. the Lion letting Typhon go to bear his message (completely illogical; Typhon's subsequent escape was how it should have been handled to begin with);

4. the "Deus ex Machina" manner by which I believe the Lion will end up defeating Curze

[Brother Immolator]

Agree to disagree, then.

 

That has to be the defining point of this discussion.I think we made our points across so no need to argue further,its a matter of perspective really so there is no real good or bad answer to it.

[Phoebus]

Agree to disagree, then.

 

That has to be the defining point of this discussion.I think we made our points across so no need to argue further,its a matter of perspective really so there is no real good or bad answer to it.

True enough, agreed! :)

 

Cheers,

P.

[Candleshoes]

It's interesting talking about our take on a Primarch killing one of his own, as though it is something new in the series, or shocking.

 

Many will remember in A Thousand Sons, when Magnus the Red is in a similar high stress situation, where one of his sons puts his thoughts and principals before the command of his primarch, whether or not it was the right thing to do, and Magnus flat out destroys Baleq Uthizaar, Athanaean Captain of the 5th Fellowship. He, like most other Primarchs, brook no dissension within their Legion. Or Corax killing the Word Bearer Chaplain in cold blood on Deliverance.

 

Even fan favorite Loken was part of the group of Luna Wolves who turned a crowd of remembrancers to paste under their ceramite shod boots, when it came to the remembrancers becoming a barrier to their duty, and that was before the fall.

 

It is not much of a stretch to even think the two Warmaster candidates, Horus and Sanguinius, how they might react when everything is gone to pot, and one of their senior officers tells them "No" when given an order, especially when thousands of astartes and humans lives are on the line. Their patience might not extend to "please take him to the brig".

 

Nemiel's death was quite likely passionate and accidental on the Lion's part, akin to when a much older brother hits their young sibling far to hard, and it takes a minute to recoil and realize you went too far.

[Augustus]

Nemiel in Fallen Angels was taken back at the cold blooded way the Lion ordered the destruction of the spaceport and his "such is the fate of all traitors" line.

 

But then is jumping up and down for the head of the librarian.

Ok...

[Aegnor]

Candleshoes - I guess the difference between the Lion in this example and those other examples you gave is: a) Magnus is a traitor, whereas the Lion is considered a loyalist, hence we are a bit more surprised when he acts irrationally or viciously - we expect that kind of behavior from someone we know is on the path to damnation, not from someone we "currently" regard as sane and loyal. (not saying they can't flesh this out to make it less clear cut, but in doing so, it does surprise us). Corax kills a member of an enemy legion, not one of his own. There's a difference between not applying "due process" (and I agree no such thing exists in the HH universe as we understand it today) with a suspected enemy who's colleagues have a track record for deception and murder, as compared to not applying due process to one of the valued members of your team the first time they question an order. As for Loken, he wasn't involved in killing the remembrancers (which occurred above Isstvan) - he was involved in the slaughter of civilians when they brought the wounded Horus back on board above Davin. Again, they're not members of your own team, and that action had immediate consequences in terms of shame and condemnation by those who saw it - which doesn't seem to have been the case in The Lion.

[Candleshoes]

The only reason why Magnus was in that position was because he thought he was being loyal, and that loyalty was why he killed one of his sons. If anything, it was more tragic than Nemiel and more shocking. To blanket Magnus as a traitor at that point is quite black and white, as the Emperor only sent the wolves to bring him to heel, changed by Horus to something much more devastating.

 

Corax killed a Word Bearer who never once took up arms in rebellion, who never participated in the fighting, who was only on Deliverance due to his placing there by the Edict of Malcador, and who had no idea what may or may not have happened in the last several years. Killing him outright based on nothing, when even most of the "Outcast Dead" were jailed for their association with their Legion, is very similar to the Lion's anger. Corax's reasoning was literally, "This is my world, my Legion."

 

Loken killing civilians, the very innocents that they are supposed to be fighting for, members of the Warmaster's flagship did bring shame upon him after, but he didn't realise it until others pointed out the carnage of his actions. The Lion on the other hand, well:

 

"The Lion seemed to realize what he had done and his face twisted with pain as he knelt beside the remains of the Brother-Redemptor."

 

If anything, he is showing more remorse and emotion than the majority of the other Primarchs, should they be placed in the position of killing one of their own by accident or a twisting of perceptions.

[Aegnor]

To be clear, I'm not criticizing the Lion, I'm criticizing the story. I'm saying that this aspect of the story was jarring compared to everything else I've read re the Lion, inc the rest of that specific story that overall I thought was very good.

 

Regarding Magnus, I respect that others have different views of him, but personally I see him as actually the worst, and probably the earliest*, of all the Primarchs in terms of dishonoring his intended purpose and duty - to assist in carrying out the Emperor's vision for the protection of the human race. I simply don't get the "tragedy" of his fall, or of what he led the Thousand Sons to. He was, it is revealed by the end of ATS, a cursed idiot from before the events in ATS even commenced. His hubris doomed untold trillions to die simply because he couldn't accept someone might know better than him, even though he had more reason than most to accept that the Emperor knew stuff he didn't and to take the Emperor seriously on that point. A lot of people here seem to like to hate on Lorgar, but I feel Magnus' reasons for betraying his father and humanity were as bad if not worse and are pretty contemptible, "good intentions" or not.

 

* - in saying earliest, I'm kinda excluding Angron and the Night Haunter because I don't at the moment see that they were ever onboard with or understanding of the Emperor's vision or their mission. I frankly at the moment don't see why the Emperor gave them control of their legions.

[Captain Idaho]

Was thinking about the reforms of the Codex and I have a feeling much of them might actually come from the Lion in regards to structure. The DA appear more in line with modern Chapters than Ultras in Know No Fear.

 

Ok that was an older part of the discussion in this thread, but I don't really want to touch the head ripping thing! I wouldn't expect any loyalist Primarch to do that, even Russ. I didn't like it on the Lion.

[Captain Semper]

I think that GW (or BL) have a tendency to make DAs controvertial. Having said that, i really liked the bit with the beheading. Enough with this "little brother" nonsense! DAs are not the Lion's brothers or equals, they are his soldiers and subodinates and they are not supposed to debate issues of order or loyalty with him... In this context the beheading was an air-punching moment for me. Now why should Nemiel bring himself to openly defy the Lion thus provoking the latter's reaction is another queston. It was kind of hastily done (no build -up) but hey, the story was not about Nemiel (thankfully) so yeah, a second class character (and an annoying one at that) went out of the way... Now have Zachariel die of twin heart attacks and everything will be back to normal! :D

[Aegnor]

Kinda prefer my soldiers that I'm meant to care about to not be utterly without any sense of honour, morality or code. "I just follow orders, even when I know 100% that those orders are illegal" ain't really a great attitude.

 

I mean, what the difference between the Lion insisting his orders be obeyed on pain of instant death - even when those orders go against the explicit, unambiguous, command of the Emperor, to whom he and his legion are meant to peer their allegiance, and Horus and his legion's "heresy"?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Kinda prefer my soldiers that I'm meant to care about to not be utterly without any sense of honour, morality or code. "I just follow orders, even when I know 100% that those orders are illegal" ain't really a great attitude.

 

Me too, it's just Gav seems to take us to a place where our DA 'heroes' are edgy, borderline psyco-nutty and are actually really hard to like.

I think the DA self loathing style is a bit of a hallmark in our lore. Other Chapters love themselves (BA), sniff their brothers junk (SW) or think they are better than sliced bread (UM), we hate ourselves.

Maybe Gav thought we were getting a bit too positive in our 'vibe' after S-Weapons and thought we needed something to rage about.

 

:D

stobz

[Captain Semper]

Kinda prefer my soldiers that I'm meant to care about to not be utterly without any sense of honour, morality or code. "I just follow orders, even when I know 100% that those orders are illegal" ain't really a great attitude.

 

You are raising an interesting point. I think you are using your 2k morality and values to judge the actions of 40k characters (well 30k really...). My point is, beheading people under any circumstances is a bad thing. But in the 30/40k setting the rules change. Primarchs are not modern day militarty commanders (more like demi-Gods really) nor are the Space Marines normal modern day soldiers. Not only on a physical but also on a psycological level. I guess right and wrong in this setting is actually defined by the Primarchs' actions. Especially where their own Legions are concerned.

 

I mean, what the difference between the Lion insisting his orders be obeyed on pain of instant death - even when those orders go against the explicit, unambiguous, command of the Emperor, to whom he and his legion are meant to peer their allegiance, and Horus and his legion's "heresy"?

 

As I said, BL generally tends to make DAs controversial... But have also failed (in the past) to give the Lion the "Primarch quality" he deservers. The Lion is loyal - this is established already. Nemiel is wrong to challenge him on grounds of loyalty. Sometimes the rules of the game change faster than any law or edict has the time to change. Who's to say what's to be done? Not Nemiel, that's for sure. We are not talking about 40k where everything is set on stone. This is a Primarch's call and the distance between the Lion and Nemiel is vast. Nemiel performed hubris and got what was coming to him...

[Brother Immolator]

Kinda prefer my soldiers that I'm meant to care about to not be utterly without any sense of honour, morality or code. "I just follow orders, even when I know 100% that those orders are illegal" ain't really a great attitude.

 

I mean, what the difference between the Lion insisting his orders be obeyed on pain of instant death - even when those orders go against the explicit, unambiguous, command of the Emperor, to whom he and his legion are meant to peer their allegiance, and Horus and his legion's "heresy"?

 

The stakes that are currently in question.There comes a time when people just wont understand what must be done for the greater good of things.At those moments its regrettable but a show of force must be used to mobilize them. I am not a fan of the prospect but if you consider things from a realistic point of view, and not one with rainbows and flowers the solution becomes obvious.

 

Imagine what would happen if each and every time an inquisitor had no other choice but to declare exterminatus (notice the had no other choice,as opposed to be trigger happy with the big X and skull button), he had to give grand speeches and go politicking to placate his subordinates,the planets civilians,the systems command,the imperial guardsmen the subsector command and eventually to get the approval of the high lords of terra. And all or some of them be like: Well you know there are children down there...

 

Brutal?Check.Heartless?Check.Despicable?Check.Is the inquisitor a cold hearted :D that will burn in hell and devils will dance on his bones?Check.

Was the exterminatus necessary to delay say,a tiranid invasion and deny biomass till the forces of the imperium regroup and blast the tyranids while losing the system as opposed to losing the entire sector?Check. Had to be done?Check.

 

When i was in the army 3 years ago i preferred to have people with brains around too.However there comes a time when the brain gets conflicted with emotions and usually during those times emotions must be cast aside for the greater whole. Thats where you need a couple of zombies in reserve.