Red wolves

[greendestiny]

With all of the great wolf bits out there I have been thinking about starting a Wolf army. However, being a nonconformist and all I dug up an army I haven't seen anyone do mutch with. The Red Wolves. Of course they would basicly be space wolves painted red but I could flesh out my own back story etc. I already have a fairly large army of Knights Hospitaller based on the BT army. I read the Space wolf novels and fell instantly in love with thier fluff. Since the Red Wolves don't have much in the way of background link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Red_Wolves

 

I would base them as a desert wolf rather than a timber or snow world wolf. Should give enough distinction to make them fun to flesh out. What are your thoughts. DO you know anyone who is doing these?

[Kassill]

Looks interesting. I have seen some "red" Wolves around here, but not sure if they were meant to be these guys, or the owner just decided he like red better than grey.

 

Seems like a decent starting point if you want to flesh out your own fluff. You've got a name, home planet, color scheme, and two known engagements, one being with a first founding heretical chapter in which you won.

 

 

Good luck, and be sure to post stories, pictures, batreps etc.! ;)

[Russ Brother 92]

I must say with a slight *sigh* finally haha - I have always wondered why GW would on the one hand say we only had 1 successor (the Wolf Brothers) who failed and ultimately became somewhat spawny, and yet in the 5Ed. normal marine dex. have the Red Wolves listed despite likely knowing that people would jump to the conclusion of them either being some funky Traitor Hunting part of the Ordo Hereticus (much akin to the SW's supposed original role as per Pre-Heresy as the executioner-esque legion).

[greendestiny]

I will be fleshing out the ancient chapter rivalry with the Night Lords.

 

Real World red wolfs are genetically 70% coyote and 30% wolf. Based on that I thought I would make them wily and sly like a coyote but larger, fiercer, and more pack oriented like a wolf. Because of this they would have the natural tendency to come into conflict with the Night Lords. Their home world is fairly poor as support resources go so they also scavenge hulks etc. They do try to plan their attacks very intelligently much like the Night Lords however, they are not afraid of a strait up fight.

 

That is about all I have so far. Feel free to throw in your fluff suggestions. I was thinking that it might be cool to have the world they are from be stuck in a tech level similar to the old west of the USA. Their recruit basis coming from a populace of groups similar to Cowboys, American Indians, and Mexicans.

[hendrik]

i actually think the red wolves were supposed to be a standard chapter following the codex astartes. it's not because a chapter has the word wolf in it that they are even remotely related to the space wolves. heck even the arch traitor's legion was called the luna wolves once! add this to the canon fluff the space wolves never had any other succesors then the wolf brothers and suddently anything closely related to the wolves becomes "highly unlikely". this all would make a "pack mentallity" less likely.

 

atleast in my opinion. if you want red wolves campaign armour is still the way to go i believe

[Russ Brother 92]

true haha - I wait for the pics and more fluff on these guys, they certainly sound fun :)

[greendestiny]

Oh, I know they are a codex chapter, but hey if I am going to do up a bunch of wolf models I want to use the much cooler space wolf rules.

[Valerian]

i actually think the red wolves were supposed to be a standard chapter following the codex astartes. it's not because a chapter has the word wolf in it that they are even remotely related to the space wolves.

 

Exactly what I was going to say, Hendrik.

 

V

[Lord Ragnarok]

i actually think the red wolves were supposed to be a standard chapter following the codex astartes. it's not because a chapter has the word wolf in it that they are even remotely related to the space wolves.

 

Exactly what I was going to say, Hendrik.

 

V

 

 

Agreed, based on established fluff I always assumed they were codex. In order for the "Red Wolves" to be a Chapter with the Canis Helix there would need to be updated fluff stating that SW's had more than one successor.

[Max_Dammit]

there is genseed sent to terra on a regular basis, who knows what they did with it, there could be chapters using SW genseed.

[greendestiny]

I like the Idea of some gene seed possibly getting mixed up or lost on the way to Terra or at the lab. Kind of the the movie theme of the babies got switched at the hospital.

 

All this time they have been counted as a codex chapter but the gene seed they got was actually SW when it was supposed to be Ultramarine etc. Cool story thread there.

 

Is there a template that people use for creating thier chapter's background? Is so where do I find it. My searches are coming up with nothing.

[Lord Ragnarok]

 

there is genseed sent to terra on a regular basis, who knows what they did with it, there could be chapters using SW genseed.

I thought I read that the High lords refuse to use it due to deviancy. (Runs off to the dusty tomes).


One angle you may want to take is the Lone Wolf angle. Remember, SW's WL's may decide to leave the fang and take their GC elsewhere. Their oaths are to the Emperor and Russ and not the GC. They do not consign themselves to servitude to the great wolf. They are still loyal to Russ and the High Father but will fight their war in their own way. This is in the spirit of the SW mentality of being independent minded impetuous. Behaviors exhibited by Russ himself and which the SW's would continue to show.

OR they may go on campaign so far away from Fenris they may never return home and carve out a smaller home in some fringe location in some other part of the galaxy.

Citation...

US White Dwarf 245. Article "Lone Wolves"

[MonSTeR]

heck even the arch traitor's legion was called the luna wolves once!

 

This is actually the real reason for the Horus Heresy. Despite "borrowing the name", Horus could never handle the fact he wasn't a Space Wolf, he turned to Chaos in a fruitless attempt to be VI... :D

[d@n]

the red wolves are pretty much so you can use space wolves models with the codex marine rules. but there your mini's do what you want.

[Dragan Stormwolf]

I thought the Red Wolves were a successor Chapter of the Iron Hands.

 

So said, if you want your wolves to be red and their company badge to be a “blood wolf” it’s your call. :cuss

[greendestiny]

This is what the Lexicanum says about them:

 

 

Founding Chapter: Unknown

Founding: Unknown

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: Bloodfall

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Colours: Red with black shoulder guards. Aquila is gold. Symbol is a red wolf's head on a black background.1

Specialty: Unknown

Strength: Unknown

 

So as far as I know the only information we have is a couple of fights listed in the 5th SM codex and IA 9. Although we may not have every bit of info out there this would leave pretty much anything up to chance. Even though they are listed as a codex chapter since it is unknown who the founding chapter is, IT COULD BE Space Wolves. Lots of things could happen when you are totally drunk on Fernisian Beer! ;)

[Kassill]

This is what the Lexicanum says about them:

 

 

Founding Chapter: Unknown

Founding: Unknown

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: Bloodfall

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Colours: Red with black shoulder guards. Aquila is gold. Symbol is a red wolf's head on a black background.1

Specialty: Unknown

Strength: Unknown

 

So as far as I know the only information we have is a couple of fights listed in the 5th SM codex and IA 9. Although we may not have every bit of info out there this would leave pretty much anything up to chance. Even though they are listed as a codex chapter since it is unknown who the founding chapter is, IT COULD BE Space Wolves. Lots of things could happen when you are totally drunk on Fernisian Beer! :jaw:

 

 

All I know for certain is, their home planet has the coolest name. :D

[MonSTeR]

This is what the Lexicanum says about them:

 

 

Founding Chapter: Unknown

Founding: Unknown

Chapter Master: Unknown

Homeworld: Bloodfall

Fortress-Monastery: Unknown

Colours: Red with black shoulder guards. Aquila is gold. Symbol is a red wolf's head on a black background.1

Specialty: Unknown

Strength: Unknown

 

So as far as I know the only information we have is a couple of fights listed in the 5th SM codex and IA 9. Although we may not have every bit of info out there this would leave pretty much anything up to chance. Even though they are listed as a codex chapter since it is unknown who the founding chapter is, IT COULD BE Space Wolves. Lots of things could happen when you are totally drunk on Fernisian Beer! :)

 

It says that the Founding Chapter is unknown, but it is also known that the Space wolves only had one successor chapter, thus, by a process of elimination...

[Max_Dammit]

they where only split once, there is no way of knowing what Terra does with the genseed sent there

 

Just like the rumor that the bloodravens are 1000 sons genseed

[Dragan Stormwolf]

The fluff and canon are quite adamant in some facts about space wolves: they had only one successor chapter (the Wolf Brothers, a split from the original legion) and will never ever have another successor chapter.

The book “The Fang” is quite clear about the works of the Wolf Priest Hraldir and the reasons why Magnus attack Fenris and the consequences for the space wolves gene-seed.

The canis helix is too unstable and subject to mutation and the Inquisition/High Lord of Terra don’t want to reproduce the hill fated destiny of the Wolf Brothers.

Moreover the canis helix is very specific and I think a gene test will easily identify him. For me the fact that the Red Wolves founding chapter is "unknown" clearly implies that their gene-seed can’t be the canis helix.

 

Historically some Great Companies were lost in the warp and on such company may come back years after its disappearance.

If you want to plany red space wolf with a red wolf totem you may play one such lost Great Company: with a red armor and a red wolf emblem but fluffwise it shouldn’t be the ”Red Wolves Chapter”.

[Max_Dammit]

The fluff and canon are quite adamant in some facts about space wolves: they had only one successor chapter (the Wolf Brothers, a split from the original legion) and will never ever have another successor chapter.

The book “The Fang” is quite clear about the works of the Wolf Priest Hraldir and the reasons why Magnus attack Fenris and the consequences for the space wolves gene-seed.

The canis helix is too unstable and subject to mutation and the Inquisition/High Lord of Terra don’t want to reproduce the hill fated destiny of the Wolf Brothers.

Moreover the canis helix is very specific and I think a gene test will easily identify him. For me the fact that the Red Wolves founding chapter is "unknown" clearly implies that their gene-seed can’t be the canis helix.

 

Historically some Great Companies were lost in the warp and on such company may come back years after its disappearance.

If you want to plany red space wolf with a red wolf totem you may play one such lost Great Company: with a red armor and a red wolf emblem but fluffwise it shouldn’t be the ”Red Wolves Chapter”.

 

Canis Helix and Genseed are 2 different things

 

We think the genseed wont work without the Canis Helix, but who knows what has been tried to get it to work, maybe thats where the Wolfbrothers went wrong, using the Canis Helix on non Fenris people making them mutate in to beasts.

Outside of Fenris no one knows how Canis Helix is made.

[Sevon]

The fluff and canon are quite adamant in some facts about space wolves: they had only one successor chapter (the Wolf Brothers, a split from the original legion) and will never ever have another successor chapter.

The book “The Fang” is quite clear about the works of the Wolf Priest Hraldir and the reasons why Magnus attack Fenris and the consequences for the space wolves gene-seed.

The canis helix is too unstable and subject to mutation and the Inquisition/High Lord of Terra don’t want to reproduce the hill fated destiny of the Wolf Brothers.

Moreover the canis helix is very specific and I think a gene test will easily identify him. For me the fact that the Red Wolves founding chapter is "unknown" clearly implies that their gene-seed can’t be the canis helix.

 

Historically some Great Companies were lost in the warp and on such company may come back years after its disappearance.

If you want to plany red space wolf with a red wolf totem you may play one such lost Great Company: with a red armor and a red wolf emblem but fluffwise it shouldn’t be the ”Red Wolves Chapter”.

 

It only mentions one successor but tells you nothing that they didn't try it more than once. Astral Claws are a possible successor chapter, as they're mentioned it the codex if that's anything to go on.

[Valerian]

The fluff and canon are quite adamant in some facts about space wolves: they had only one successor chapter (the Wolf Brothers, a split from the original legion) and will never ever have another successor chapter.

The book “The Fang” is quite clear about the works of the Wolf Priest Hraldir and the reasons why Magnus attack Fenris and the consequences for the space wolves gene-seed.

The canis helix is too unstable and subject to mutation and the Inquisition/High Lord of Terra don’t want to reproduce the hill fated destiny of the Wolf Brothers.

Moreover the canis helix is very specific and I think a gene test will easily identify him. For me the fact that the Red Wolves founding chapter is "unknown" clearly implies that their gene-seed can’t be the canis helix.

 

Historically some Great Companies were lost in the warp and on such company may come back years after its disappearance.

If you want to plany red space wolf with a red wolf totem you may play one such lost Great Company: with a red armor and a red wolf emblem but fluffwise it shouldn’t be the ”Red Wolves Chapter”.

 

Canis Helix and Genseed are 2 different things

 

Max, I disagree. I'll provide some snipets:

 

"The Space Wolves, the 6th Legion, were the genetic progeny of Russ and carried within them a unique gift: the Canis Helix, the Mark of the Wolf that sets the Space Wolves apart from the Space Marines of other Chapters." Children of the Night - WD 283.

 

"Little needs to be said of Fenris, the inhospitable, ice-bound world from which the Space Wolves come, but whether the 13th Company have found a home within the Eye of Terror is unknown. Certainly, the Canis Helix would prove a vital factor in surviving within the Eye, for it is known that the Curse of the Wulfen is want to surface as a defence against the influence of Chaos." Children of the Night - WD 283.

 

"That the Canis Helix is responsible for the condition of the Wulfen is known, and it has been suggested that the savage force that resides within each Space Wolf has allowed the 13th Company to survive the long millennia of contact with the power of Chaos. What is not known is whether the 13th Company's presence within the Eye of Terror has tainted its gene-seed in any way." Children of the Night - WD 283.

 

"Before then the Emperor was unable to duplicate the long and arduous work which had created the Primarchs. Instead, from the residue genetic helices of the Primarchs the Emperor created twenty Space Marine Legions, each utilizing the genetic material derived from one of the Primarchs. Thus the warriors of the First Founding Legions echoed to some degree the particular strengths and powers of the Primarch whose genes were used to develop their implants. The implants of the Space Wolves were developed from the genetic helix [aka the "Canis" helix] of the Primarch Leman Russ, and so Space Wolves to this day have some of the qualities of this great man." The Wolves of Fenris - WD 246.

 

"The Wolf Priests guard the Chapter's genetic seed, bio-culturing new implants and maintaining the vigour of the strain by weeding out any weakness or mutation. Their knowledge is deep, and for many centuries they have studied the effects of the cursed Wulfen gene helix in a search for a way to modify it and make safe the Chapter's genetic seed. However, their efforts have only succeeded in preventing the curse spreading, and it is unlikely that the damage can ever be repaired completely." The Wolves of Fenris - WD 246.

 

"From the residue genetic helices of the Primarchs the Emperor created twenty Space Marine Legions, each utilising the genetic material derived from one of the Primarchs....The implants of the Space Wolves were developed from the genetic helix of the Primarch Leman Russ." 5th Edition Codex Space Wolves, page 8.

 

Max, I would argue that these last three quotes in particular make it quite clear that our Space Wolves' geneseed is derived directly from the Canis Helix, and are inextricably linked - the Canis Helix is not a separate 'ingredient' as it were.

 

Also from the 5th Edition Codex (page 10) is a brand new piece of lore: "The trial is long, for the warrior is taken a thousand miles into the barren wastes beyond the fortress of the Fang. He drinks from the Cup of Wulfen, and his body absorbs the first and most deadly gene-seed of the Space Wolves - the unique Canis gene helix."

 

This new bit changes slightly the earlier descriptions, but clearly states that the Canis helix is in fact one of the geneseed.

 

We think the genseed wont work without the Canis Helix, but who knows what has been tried to get it to work, maybe thats where the Wolfbrothers went wrong, using the Canis Helix on non Fenris people making them mutate in to beasts.

Outside of Fenris no one knows how Canis Helix is made.

 

Again, I disagree. You can't separate the Canis Helix from the rest of the geneseed. "The Canis Helix is necessary, however, as without this esential part of Leman Russ' heritage the other gene helices cannot be implanted at all." 5th Edition Codex (page10).

 

 

Also, there is no background material that I am aware of that says that using non-Fenrisians won't work. We've been through this before, but here it is again:

 

"It appears that in some cases a Wolf Lord and his Great Company separate from the main body of the Chapter, undertaking their own quests and missions for a variety of reasons. The case of Jotun Bearclaw, for example, indicates that his men had elected not to return to Fenris because of the long journey time through warp space, and presumably the temporal displacement they would suffer on arrival (potentially several years over such a distance). I suspect that there is a more hidden motive behind the Company's actions, one which he chose not to share with the Kimmerians. This may be related to the Space Wolves' ancient quest to find their lost Primarch.

 

As to the long term viability of these 'lost companies' it is difficult to say. Given sufficient geneseed and technical competence it is entirely possible for such a company to maintain its strength over a protracted period, inducting and training new recruits in the same way as a normal Chapter." Lone Wolves - WD 245.

 

Best,

 

Valerian

[Valerian]

The fluff and canon are quite adamant in some facts about space wolves: they had only one successor chapter (the Wolf Brothers, a split from the original legion) and will never ever have another successor chapter.

The book “The Fang” is quite clear about the works of the Wolf Priest Hraldir and the reasons why Magnus attack Fenris and the consequences for the space wolves gene-seed.

The canis helix is too unstable and subject to mutation and the Inquisition/High Lord of Terra don’t want to reproduce the hill fated destiny of the Wolf Brothers.

Moreover the canis helix is very specific and I think a gene test will easily identify him. For me the fact that the Red Wolves founding chapter is "unknown" clearly implies that their gene-seed can’t be the canis helix.

 

Historically some Great Companies were lost in the warp and on such company may come back years after its disappearance.

If you want to plany red space wolf with a red wolf totem you may play one such lost Great Company: with a red armor and a red wolf emblem but fluffwise it shouldn’t be the ”Red Wolves Chapter”.

 

It only mentions one successor but tells you nothing that they didn't try it more than once.

 

Actually, it is explicitly stated in about 10 different sources, at least, that they never tried more than once.

 

V

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I remember a young lad I played against who had a codex army (this was back in 4th ed) called the Wolf Knights. Colour scheme was silver with red shoulderpads and he used the Blackmane badge as his chapter badge, everything else was codex with shoulder pad edging denoting company etc.

 

He liked wolves but didn't like space wolves so decided to do a codex chapter with a wolf badge. He used to get such hassle with everyone assuming he was doing a wolf-successor just beause his badeg was a wolf! People would take one look and without even asking about the army say such things as "You can't do that, wolves don't have a codex successor" or some such.

 

This thread reminds me of that in allot of ways.