Shunting into cover/dangerous terrain.

[Thymebandit]

Are units equipped with personal teleporters allowed to shunt directly into cover/dangerous terrain?

I've been reading through the codex and FAQ for an answer, but perhaps I'm just really tired and have missed it. Any help?

Also if there is a rule stated in the Codex, could you reference a page number so I can sticky it? Thanks in advance ;)

[Chengar Qordath]

Yeah, you can shunt into cover and dangerous terrain. The only restrictions on where you can't shunt mentioned in the rules are the usual restrictions about not being able to end a move on top of another unit or in impassable terrain.

 

See Page 28 of the GK Codex, which is where the rules on shunting are (part of the personal teleporter's rules).

 

Edit: Page 52 of the BRB might also be relevant, since a personal teleporter makes the unit Jump Infantry, and that's where the jump infantry movement rules are.

[Thymebandit]

Ah, thank you for the answer :tu:, at work now and will check up later. I guess I was wondering if they take a difficult or dangerous terrain test.

Turns out I had another question! If I equip a GM with every type of grenade under the sun, when I am actually assaulting/being assaulted, must I choose a grenade to use, or are ALL grenade effects used in unison?

[Iron Father Rik]

You can use all the grenades.

[Thymebandit]

Well hot diggity, I see the light ;)

Thank you very much for the responses!

[Chengar Qordath]

You can use all the grenades.

GKBC: Use all of the grenades?

GKGM: Use ALL of the grenades!

[breng77]

Any terrain check for shunting would be dangerous as it counts a movement by jump infantry and thus follows the terrain rules for jump infantry (difficult terrain= dangerous)

[Gentlemanloser]

Shunting *doesn't* follow any rules for Jump Infantry.

 

It has it's own rules.

 

We really don't want to get back to MCs moving as Jump Infantry again, do we? :ph34r:

[worloch]

Shunting *doesn't* follow any rules for Jump Infantry.

 

It has it's own rules.

 

We really don't want to get back to MCs moving as Jump Infantry again, do we? :ph34r:

 

Maybe I'm missing something here, but from the FAQ

Q: Personal teleporters make the unit with them jump

infantry. How does this affect a Dreadknight with a

personal teleporter? (p28)

A: It is a monstrous creature that moves like jump

infantry.

 

...

 

 

Anyhow, I believe the rulebook states somewhere (don't have it with me right now) that you can still choose to make a normal move in to difficult terrain with jump troops to avoid the dangerous terrain test - and the shunt says it is in place of a 'normal' move.

 

I believe the RAW supports that you would not take a Dangerous Terrain test, but I believe the spirit would suggest you should, following in the precedents of Jump Troops landing in difficult terrain, deep striking in to difficult terrain, and bikes moving through difficult terrain.

[Gentlemanloser]

The rules for JI and MC moving into Difficult/Dangerous terrain are different, aren't they?

 

As you say, the shunt replaces a normal move, ignores all interveneing terrain (whether that also includes where they land is ambiguous at best) and the MC shouldbe able ot use MC rules for terrain rather than JI.

 

Shouldn't it? :ph34r:

[Thymebandit]

This is essentially my debate here D:

I wasn't aware this was already a debated topic!

[nurglez]

My 1500 point draigowing uses a DK with teleporter (and heavy incinerator + greatsword), and whenever I move it into difficult terrain, I take a dangerous terrain test. Including when I shunt it there.

 

page 52 of the lil rule book, under movement.

 

"if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

 

Yes you could argue that as it only moves like jump infantry-but isn't actually jump infantry-it shouldn't take the test, but to me it seems fair to take it, and I have rarely failed it anyway.

[Gentlemanloser]

But that's only for a 12" jump move.

 

JI can still walk 6" and not take the Dangerous Test.

 

On top of that, a MC gets additional benefits to moving through cover.

 

And the Shunt replaces a normal move, not a JI move. ;) Unless we want to assert that a Jump move is the 'normal' move for a JI mini. But then what about a MC that *can* (but doesn't have to) move like JI? A PT NDK can still walk 6" as a MC and not just thier PT...

 

Lastly, does 'ignore intervening terrain' only apply for discrete terrain moved through and past? Or does it inlcude terrain your start/end in?

[Morollan]

page 52 of the lil rule book, under movement.

 

"if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test."

 

Yes you could argue that as it only moves like jump infantry-but isn't actually jump infantry-it shouldn't take the test, but to me it seems fair to take it, and I have rarely failed it anyway.

 

This kind of thing always amuses me. If you move like JI and there are rules that apply to JI whilst moving then those rules apply to you. Anyone arguing that they don't, frankly doesn't understand what 'moves as' or 'counts as' or 'moves as if moving through...' actually means!

 

PS - I realise you are taking the DT test anyway so this is not really directed at you, or indeed this issue in general, just certain people who seem to think that they get to decide which part of the rules apply to them on a whim.

[dswanick]

A DreadKnight is a Monstrous Creature, thus :

- it can move 6" in the Movement Phase and has 'Move Through Cover' USR.

- it can Run d6" in the Shooting Phase.

- if it didn't Run, it can Assault 6" in the Assault Phase.

 

A DreadKnight with a Personal Teleporter in a Monstrous Creature which 'moves as' Jump Infantry, thus :

- it can choose to either move 6" in the Movement Phase and has 'Move Through Cover' USR,

or it can move 12" in the Movement Phase and must take a Dangerous Terrain test if starting or ending its move in Difficult Terrain. This move may not end in Impassible Terrain or other models*, and may Deep Strike. (I believe that while choosing to move this way, it still has the 'Move Through Cover' USR - but that is debateable). It Falls Back 3d6".

or once per game, the it can move 30", ignores intervening terrain, may not move on top of other models or Impassible Terrain, and may not Assault after moving.

- it can Run d6" in the Shooting Phase.

- if it didn't Run, it can Assault 6" in the Assault Phase.

 

So to answer your question :

Are units equipped with personal teleporters allowed to shunt directly into cover/dangerous terrain?

I've been reading through the codex and FAQ for an answer, but perhaps I'm just really tired and have missed it. Any help?

Also if there is a rule stated in the Codex, could you reference a page number so I can sticky it? Thanks in advance ;)

Yes, a PT equipped DK can shunt into Cover and Dangerous Terrain. If it does shunt into or out of Dangerous Terrain, I think the rules are sufficiently clear that the model must take a Dangerous Terrain test - but other than that, it is legal.

[the jeske]

If you move like JI and there are rules that apply to JI whilst moving then those rules apply to you. Anyone arguing that they don't, frankly doesn't understand what 'moves as' or 'counts as' or 'moves as if moving through...' actually means!

if moving like made you jump infantry then you wouldnt be able to fit a lord with wings in to a rhino . which you clearly can do . The fact that you move like unit class X doesnt make you unit class X , unless you have the rule to be it in the first place. A MC moving like a jump infantry with a special pice of gear that lets is shunt [explained how it works in the GK dex] does not make a NDK with a personal teleporter jump infantry.

[Morollan]

If you move like JI and there are rules that apply to JI whilst moving then those rules apply to you. Anyone arguing that they don't, frankly doesn't understand what 'moves as' or 'counts as' or 'moves as if moving through...' actually means!

if moving like made you jump infantry then you wouldnt be able to fit a lord with wings in to a rhino . which you clearly can do .

 

And this is exactly the sort of misunderstanding that I was referring to. Do the movement rules for jump infantry effect the transport capacity of a vehicle? No, as this is covered by the rules for Transport Vehicles, not the rules for movement. So moving as JI does not alter your ability to embark on a transport.

[breng77]

SO then you are arguing that a dreadknight with a PT is immune to all terrain checks in the Movement phase?

[Morollan]

SO then you are arguing that a dreadknight with a PT is immune to all terrain checks in the Movement phase?

 

Who, me? Not in the slightest.

[breng77]

That seems to be what people are trying to argue about shunting. TO me moves like jump infantry = obeys all movement rules pertaining to jump infantry which means unless you are walking all difficult terrain is treated as dangerous.

[Gentlemanloser]

Shunting doesn't equal moving as JI though.

 

Let's assume that there's no single 'normal' movement.

 

Rather a unit with a PT has two options to move 'normally'.

 

1: They can opt to walk 6"

2: They can 'jump' 12"

 

Both constitute a 'normal' move.

 

Now a shunt is taken in lieu of 'normal' movement, so for clarity 'normal' movement for a unit with a PT is;

 

1: They can walk 6"

2: They can 'jump' 12"

3: They can 'shunt' 30" (once per game)

 

Now, the 'walk' option doesn't suffer from the 'jump' options penalites regarding Terrain.

 

Nor does the shunt, as it's a seperate movement type.

 

By design, the 'shunt' ignores intervenening terrain. And frankly it has to. If it didn't ignore it, how far does it move? 30"? 1d6"? 1d6 * 5"? The rules don't cover that, as they don't need to.

 

A shunt ignores all terrain.

 

It also doesn't ever count difficult terrain as dangerous terrain. As it's not a 12" 'jump' move.

 

You could argue that you would still take a dangerous terrain test, if you moved into, out of, or through Dangerous terrain (seperate to difficult terrain upgraded to dangerous due to 'jump' moves), but the shunt still ignores dangerous terrain.

 

Unless you want to argue that 'intervening' doesn't include terrain you start or end in. Which I wouldn't. :)

[Morollan]

I think we have to assume that as the PT rules makes specific reference to impassable terrain and do not refer to difficult or dangerous terrain then the intent is to ignore the effects of such terrain on the turn in which it shunts. Of course, if a DK shunts into difficult terrain it will still have to make a Dangerous Terrain test the following turn when it wants to move out (unless it just moves 6").

[breng77]

Jump infantry take dangerous terrain tests if they start or end their move in Difficult terrain (and jump move).

 

Shunting is movement using the personal teleporter, which makes it a "jump move"

 

You can argue otherwise if you wish by RAW and you would not be wrong,

 

As for intervening terrain, Jump packs always ignore intervening models and terrain, intervening means occuring between. So any terrain that is between the start and the end of the move is ignored, the beginning and end of something by definition cannot occur between the beginning and end, and as such would not be ignored.

 

I think at times people need to realize that GW assumes things when they write their rules (in this case that the Shunt is movement using the units "Jump Pack or equivalent"

[Gentlemanloser]

How far do you move if you start a shunt in difficult terrain?

 

A shunt move is not a jump move.

 

Personally, PT should never have been classed as jump infantry, as they don't 'jump'.

 

They 'bamph'.

 

(in this case that the Shunt is movement using the units "Jump Pack or equivalent"

 

Couldn't disagree more. :)

 

I think it's more likely a hold over for 6th, where move types will no doubt get addressed.

[number6]

A shunt move is not a jump move.

 

Personally, PT should never have been classed as jump infantry, as they don't 'jump'.

 

They 'bamph'.

That's a nice fluffy description that has absolutely no relationship whatsoever with the rules.

 

Interceptors are Jump Infantry. Therefore they move like Jump Infantry. Therefore any move that isn't plain ol' walking is a jump move with all the attendant benefits and pitfalls. There is no other valid way to look at this, given the current rules set.

I think it's more likely a hold over for 6th, where move types will no doubt get addressed.

That would be most welcome. Seeing as GK teleport homers refer to units that arrive by teleportation, yet nowhere in the core rules, GK codex, or codex FAQ is that specific type of movement defined. Which actually does leave the door open for people to argue that interceptors always travel by teleportation. After all, they use -- wait for it -- ... "personal teleporters".

 

Le sigh. ;) GW is so much FAIL sometimes.