Facing Thundercav as C:SM

[VoteForPedro]

Hi all,

 

Interested in your thoughts as to how you would play against the following 1000pt list with Codex Marines. This isn't really an exercise in list tailoring, just a bit of tactical + building fun on a rainy Wednesday (well, it's raining here anyway!)

 

Thunderlord, Warrior Born, Storm Shield, Frost Axe

 

3 x Thundercav with Storm Shields

 

10 Grey Hunters, 2 Melta, Banner, Power Weapon

10 Grey Hunters, 2 Plasma, Banner, Power Weapon

 

5 Long Fangs, 5 Missile Launchers.

 

Few bits and bobs on the squads I likely missed. No vehicles there though mind you.

 

Anyway, thoughts?

[ShinyRhino]

I'd pour all my fire into the WolfCav. 3+ saves only succeed so many times, and they have no wound allocation to save wounded models. One the WolfCav are dead, pick the Hunters apart at your leisure since they're stuck moving 6" per turn.

[greatcrusade08]

tbh a 1k points youd probably be looking at a libby as HQ, may aswell give him null zone (and avenger perhaps).

 

your best off away from tac marines, as they are horribly outclassed by GHs, maybe have 2 small squads of scout snipers instead?

i suppose you could go MSU on 5 man tac squads but its not 'my way'

[VoteForPedro]

Interesting stuff so far!

 

Agreeing with both of you, at that low point level a libby with Null Zone seems like a no brainer. Sniper Scouts as well would like have a place. The lack of Wolf Guard for the Grey Hunters leaves them a bit more vulnerable to pinning that a Marine squad normally would be.

 

AV13 would likely go down well, could see an Ironclad being a pain for the Thundercav and the Long Fangs.

 

Anyway, lets see what else we can come up with!

[ShinyRhino]

Interesting stuff so far!

 

Agreeing with both of you, at that low point level a libby with Null Zone seems like a no brainer. Sniper Scouts as well would like have a place. The lack of Wolf Guard for the Grey Hunters leaves them a bit more vulnerable to pinning that a Marine squad normally would be.

 

AV13 would likely go down well, could see an Ironclad being a pain for the Thundercav and the Long Fangs.

 

Anyway, lets see what else we can come up with!

 

An Ironclad with assault launchers would indeed be a nasty surprise for the ThunderCav. S10 instakills them, and they have no way to hurt it in return. The trick will be catching them.

 

EDIT You don't even need the IALs, since there's no powerfists in the enemy army.

[DarkGuard]

Those TFC don't look so scary, no thunder hammer. I'd go for Null Zone and a Vindicator in addition to the Ironclad. Typhoons would be good if only for pouring wounds on them and the Grey Hunters, no wound allocation tricks bar the Lord from them.

 

And once they're dead they have no mobility. As long as you put the right hard counter in you should be fine.

[greatcrusade08]

heres what i patched together, aswell as factoring in the list you wrote i tried to keep it as an all rounder, tailoring isnt cool IMO

 

libby

-null zone

-avenger

 

5 tac marines

-combi-melta

-las/plas r/back

 

5 scout snipers

-ML

 

5 scout snipers

-ML

 

vindicator

 

vindicator

 

ironclad dreadnought

-meltagun

-heavy flamer

 

2 typhoon speeders (can be split to into two units if you wanted)

 

exactly 1000 pts

[Azerick]

I do not think you can just put a Ironclad in there and not worry about it. I believe if they have no special weapons the Thundercav attacks count as rending. I just shoot them alot and hope the odds are with me usually, especially in low point games.

[greatcrusade08]

I do not think you can just put a Ironclad in there and not worry about it. I believe if they have no special weapons the Thundercav attacks count as rending. I just shoot them alot and hope the odds are with me usually, especially in low point games.

 

yes TWC have rending, which is great against infantry, but it wont hurt an AV13 dread

[Stormshadow]

Ha! That’s a very underwhelming list, It’s almost mean to tailor against it. I will just pretend that it is a real douchebag playing it and recommend you to use the following.

 

HQ:

Librarian: Null Zone, Avenger. 100p

 

Khan: 160p

 

Troops:

5x Scouts: 4x Sniper, Missile, cloaks 100p

 

5x Scouts: 4x Sniper, Missile, cloaks 100p

 

10x Scouts: Power Weapon & combi flamer. 9x a mix of BP/CCW and shotguns. 165p

 

Heavy:

Land Raider Redeemer: 240p

 

Sum: 835p

 

Put the HQ’s and the 10 man squad in the Land Raider. Put the Sniper scouts on the objectives. I think this is what you call an Instant win. :P

[dswanick]

I do not think you can just put a Ironclad in there and not worry about it. I believe if they have no special weapons the Thundercav attacks count as rending. I just shoot them alot and hope the odds are with me usually, especially in low point games.

 

yes TWC have rending, which is great against infantry, but it wont hurt an AV13 dread

I hope you're being optimistic with that statement - because S5 + d6 + d3 says otherwise. :P

[VoteForPedro]

Ha! That’s a very underwhelming list, It’s almost mean to tailor against it.

 

Hah, maybe!

 

Interested in the responses, top stuff so far. The original idea was to have a think about what a smashy unit such as Thunder Cav and a Wolf Lord will mean for low point games. It seems that while we can put together some lists that will hard counter the Wolves it's particularly interesting that many people are saying to bring a standard list and torrent them down.

 

Lower point level games are always at risk of being a rock paper scissors match (especially when AV14 is played) and I suppose the ultimate aim is to have a list that can cope reasonably well regardless of what you come up against.

 

Anyway, enough rambling from me. Here's what I came up with as a fun 1k list that should have a decent chance against most things. It's a bit light on scoring but your Scouts will be going to ground as soon as someone looks at them funny. Capture and Control will be problematic but I would hope to control my own objective and contest theirs (as is the norm for objective games). The Sternguard are flexible, you can drop the Plasma Cannons for Combi Meltas or other bits of wargear. There are 20 points left to play with.

 

HQ:

Librarian - Null Zone, Avenger

 

Elite:

Sternguard (5) - 2 Plasma Cannons, Rhino

 

Troops:

Scout Squad (5) - Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Missile Launcher

Scout Squad (5) - Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, Missile Launcher

 

Fast Attack:

Land Speeder - Typoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter

Land Speeder - Typoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter

 

Heavy Support:

Dev Squad - 4 Missile Launchers

Predator - Autocannon, Heavy Bolters

Predator - Autocannon, Heavy Bolters

[greatcrusade08]

I hope you're being optimistic with that statement - because S5 + d6 + d3 says otherwise. :D

 

yeah i forgot about the S5.. still you need alot of attacks to stick, or have those 'special dice' that you get from 'some guy' on the 'internet'

[dswanick]

I hope you're being optimistic with that statement - because S5 + d6 + d3 says otherwise. :wacko:

 

yeah i forgot about the S5.. still you need alot of attacks to stick, or have those 'special dice' that you get from 'some guy' on the 'internet'

True, and while it is statistically possible - hitting on 4+, needing a 6 on the Armor Pen roll, and then only 2/3rds of those will Glance or Pen means it's long odds even with 6 attacks per model on the Charge.

[Bannus]

I'd keep your HQ really, really cheap - use those points to bulk out the army.

 

Chaplain Cassius! Dirt cheap and really hard to kill in close combat (which is what the Space Wolves excel at).

[DarkGuard]

I'd stick with combi-melta on the Sternguard, so you have a mobile unit that doesn't need to stay still for full effect. And despite the lack of S10, I do believe that much S8 should reduce those thunderwolves to so much molten slag quite quickly.

[Ming]

Plasma cannons and vidicators and null zone. Nuff said.

[ShinyRhino]

I'd skip the plasma cannons. Thunderwolves are on 60mm bases. You'll be hard pressed to land more than a single hit per cannon on those guys.

[dswanick]

I'd skip the plasma cannons. Thunderwolves are on 60mm bases. You'll be hard pressed to land more than a single hit per cannon on those guys.

Yeah, and Vindicators have a problem out-maneuvering Cavalry. That's why TWC are not simply a "Plasma cannons and vidicators and null zone. Nuff said." problem...

[DarkGuard]

Plasma guns on the other hand. More shots, more hits, more wounds, more failed saves. I had a combi-plasma/plasma gun unit take down a unit of 2 once. My Honour Guard took out the other one with no casualties, and he charged me. :)

[Bannus]

A Command Squad with plasma guns would be a good unit for the few TWC that got within range. For long range, I'd still go with plasma cannons. While they will likely take only one TWC down per shot, once you swing them in the direction of the GW, then they will really start to shine.

[The Unknown Father]

I think that the best option against thunder cav are plasma guns (as blast weapons will not make many hits) as bannus said a command squad is a good option but you need a captain and I think that in 1000 points games they are not worthy. what I normally take against thunder cav is a librarian (null zone + advenger) 5 sternguard with combi-plas in a lass/plas razorback, this squad is also nice against grey hunters so great!

 

Another good option could be to forget about the shields and saturate them with dakka preds and riflemen dreads

[DarkGuard]

Another good option could be to forget about the shields and saturate them with dakka preds and riflemen dreads

 

This is a good points. They've all got a 3++ save effectively, so you can just spam lots of high volume high strength shots. It won't be quite as good as AP3 plus Null Zone, but it'll help get the job done. Most people torrent against Marines with their armour save, it can work to a similar effect against TWC.