Delivering assault units...in a Rhino chassis?

[ShinyRhino]

I'm thinking of fielding some Honour Guard alongside a generic Chapter Master soon. The loadout will probably be five or six Guards and a Champion rolling with the Master and possibly a Chaplain.

Ideally, I'd throw these guys in one of my Land Raider Crusaders, but at the sub-2000 point range, one Land Raider of any flavor tends to be targeted early and often. It becomes tough to protect, especially when driving forward into the teeth of melta weapons.

To save on points, I'm considering shoving them into a Rhino.

The problem is, I've never delivered an assault-based unit into the fight in a Rhino chassis. I always use a Land Raider or jump packs.

How exactly do you pull this off? AV11, non-Assault vehicles seem like a tricky proposition for a unit that has to cross a lot of board to be useful.

 

Obviosuly, I have cover saves for one turn with smoke and more if I can use terrain to my advantage. The Rhino is still AV11, so any saturation of antitank shots is just about guaranteed to get through. LOS-blocking might work using terrain and other Rhinos, but it feels like the Honour Guard would be relegated to end-around duty or targets of opportunity using this method.

 

Do any of you delivery choppy units to the fight inside Rhinos? If so, how do you ensure the unit reaches the fight?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I've encountered similar issues with my Eldar and their assault units; granted, they're better protected, but for me the problem is the lack of an assault ramp. It reall comes down to positioning, especially since you're not going to have Fleet to extend your movement.

 

As for ensuring the Rhino survives to get close enough to deliver the cargo? Ya got me there. Perhaps. . . screen it with a Vindicator? Misdirection and target saturation with drop-Dreads and multiple Vindis on the table to draw fire?

[Koremu]

Thunder Rhino.

 

Seriously though, the key here is not in how you are delivering them, but in how you are using them.

 

An Assault unit in a Rhino Chassis is an inherently reactive unit. Because your assault range is limited to 12" from the tank, other Primary Assault units will always close before you do, and even short range Plasma weaponry or the ever-present Krak missile will leave you vulnerable.

 

I've run RB Captain & (Cheap) Command Squad in a Heavy Flamer Razorback a lot, and what they do is react to things that threaten the nearby units.

 

Said nearby units are almost always much more threatening. The ever classic "2 Vindicators, a Razorback & 3 Rhinos are coming up the board. Everthing has cover. What are you going to do about it?" technique is one of my favourites.

[DarkGuard]

As others have said you use them as a reaction unit and fill your army with tons of target saturation. My typical list with Honour Guard in Rhino tends to have at least another 3 or 4 Rhino chassis of various types, plus 2-4 Speeders and a Dread or two, maybe. And if one of the Rhinos have a Sternguard unit in it as well that adds to the target saturation. With use of cover, screening units and smoke you can normally get them to where they need to be.

 

And as to their charge range, as said you use them as a reaction unit, and you think one turn ahead. They can be a handy spearhead, as long as you're thinking one turn ahead. And remember that the charge range is 14", nearly 15". Back of base 2" away from hatch, 6" move, 6" assault. So they can charge quite quickly out of that Rhino so long as you planned ahead.

[maturin]

Koremu and Darkguard are spot on. In the past year I've been delivering my Vanguard Vets via rhino, and it works fairly well. I've found an effective tactic is the use of bait units. Debarked a tac squad from its rhino and rapid fire an enemy assault unit. Meanwhile, park your "assault rhino" just behind the tac squad, but within 14" of the ensuing combat.

 

If your opponent sees the trap, that's ok- just embark the bait unit and move on. Repeat next turn. Otherwise, charge!

 

Infiltrating sniper scouts also work nicely as bait.

[ShinyRhino]

Good points, all.

So, it basically becomes a situational choice between "move forward, jump out, shoot, charge next turn" or "move forward, get out next turn, shoot, then charge."

Not sure I can pull this off with onl owning 4 completed Rhino chassis. One would have to carry the HG and HQ unit, and the other three would have to hold Tacticals, or be empty.

Oddly, I don't own a single Vindicator. I could do a Predator at the cost of one Rhino (magnetized and swappable :)). I've got plenty of Dreads and a couple speeders...hmmmm.

[DarkGuard]

I find it's nearly always the second option, as the first leaves your assault unit vulnerable to enemy shooting. Also, pretty much every assault in the Marine Codex has negligible shooting, so it doesn't matter much if you don't shoot them.

 

And that's a similar list of vehicles to what I may use in my 1750pt lists, and so far only had very few problems with target saturation etc.

[ShinyRhino]

Sounds like my best bet is flooding the area with Rhinos, and using the Dreads and Speeders to hit things that can open the HG's can before they can hit the HG.

[Raphiel]

I find it's nearly always the second option, as the first leaves your assault unit vulnerable to enemy shooting. Also, pretty much every assault in the Marine Codex has negligible shooting, so it doesn't matter much if you don't shoot them.

 

And that's a similar list of vehicles to what I may use in my 1750pt lists, and so far only had very few problems with target saturation etc.

 

I agree that target saturation is key here.

 

I always use two Rhinos with a Tactical Squads, a Razorback with Sternguard, two Vindicators and two Typhoons.

 

The pair of Vindicators are mainly there to soak up fire. Many opponents consider them such a threat that they assign the majority of their heavy weapons to destroy the Vindicators, which is fine with me. I consider every shell that I manage to fire with my Vindicators a bonus, as I commence the battle expecting not to be able to shoot at all with the Vindicators. As long as the enemy is shooting at the Vindicators, my other units won't get shot.

And, once my transports have delivered their cargo, I use them to screen other units (the surviving Vindicators in particular).

 

Coincidentally I am painting up a (generic) Chapter Master with Honour Guard as well. I plan on transporting them in a Razorback (possibly with extra armour to ensure movement). I find my Razorback (with TL Assault Cannon) with Sternguard already fairly durable due to the fact that I already have a lot of armour on the board. I play my Sternguard rather aggressive, mostly rushing up midfield to control it. I always back them up with my Vindicators, which draw a lot (if not all) of the fire.

I'd run my Honour Guard in a similar fashion. Give the opponent other (e.g. more immediate threats) to shoot, and you've got a good chance to deliver the assault unit right where you want them to.

[Ming]

If you advance with a "wall of (Shiny) Rhinos" you can not only get the units reliably to the target, you can also keep your guys protected if their transport is wrecked or exploded. Keep the bait units up front and the honor guard delivery rhino with a traveling cover save.

 

No vindies? Heck, I only have one of the old metal ones. I won't invest in more unless I can buy cheap used ones...

[Captain Idaho]

Deployment you put a Rhino infront of the transport of the assault unit's Rhino/Razorback and one to the side of that front transport so you make it not worth firing at the assault unit's Rhino. If line of sight can't be drawn to the arc facing the firer, the cover save increases to 3+.

 

Your first turn you rush forward and pop smoke. You should have at least 1 vehicle left available to block line of sight and grant another cover save, or just use the smoke launchers. You could get two movement phases out of a Rhino, giving you 24" movement!

[Koremu]

Don't forget Land Speeders either. On the low base they fly low enough to grant a cover save to Rhinos behind them, but move fast to get the 4+ Fast Vehicle save.

 

A screen of 6 MM/HF Speeders is more than enough to pull firepower away from your Rhinos

[JamesI]

I often run an assault squad in a rhino with 2 ICs (generally a Librarian and Corbulo) and a Death Company in a rhino. As said above, this squad is often used to react to the opponent. While people are busy shooting my bigger tanks (Vindicators work well for this) or trying to take out my jumpy squads, the rhinos can position themselves.

 

The squads often are underestimated by people (well not the DC but the rhino assault squad) and are able to turn the tide in games.

[terminatorAM]

Since you mentioned assault squads: how do you deliver the jumpers?

 

If there is just the wall o' rhinos at the start, then there is nothing for anti-infantry guns to shoot at. Then from the 2nd turn on, the RAS can deep strike or come onto the board from reserves, but this seems to make them a fire magnet which does distract from the transported assault units.

 

I guess you just need to decide which is a priority unit to keep safe and which is your bait/tar-pit unit.

[JamesI]

Since you mentioned assault squads: how do you deliver the jumpers?

 

If there is just the wall o' rhinos at the start, then there is nothing for anti-infantry guns to shoot at. Then from the 2nd turn on, the RAS can deep strike or come onto the board from reserves, but this seems to make them a fire magnet which does distract from the transported assault units.

 

I guess you just need to decide which is a priority unit to keep safe and which is your bait/tar-pit unit.

In my hybrid lists, I tend to hide the jumpers behind the rhinos/vindicators/Baal Preds and then jump over them when the time comes. Outside of barage weapons, the jumpers are pretty safe until the tanks start to die.