Lysere Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I may not be a wolf but just throwing out some easy solutions to gks, in particular the paladins. Squads with several plasma cannons can do serious dmg to paladins, as do vindicators. (since they insta-kill) One thing you will want to watch for are Psy-Rifleman Dreads. S8 autocannons are wrong on so many lvls. Luckily a well placed melta shot deals with them. Trying to beat them in CC is risky but can work if you tie them up with a unit they can't beat with halberds or most conventional weapons. (Dreads come to mind) Then charge them with a power unit. Just some simple ones for you to think about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3059806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Be careful of using Dreads unless you have a Runepriest nearby to try and shutdown pyschic powers. A Grey Knight with a Daemon hammer can have a str9 attack on your Dread and if he's a paladin/termie with a banner it's 3 str9 attacks. Try and tie them up in cose combat with one squd and then hit with the dread on a flank so the thunderhammer guy can't direct his attacks at the dread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Be careful of using Dreads unless you have a Runepriest nearby to try and shutdown pyschic powers. A Grey Knight with a Daemon hammer can have a str9 attack on your Dread and if he's a paladin/termie with a banner it's 3 str9 attacks. Try and tie them up in cose combat with one squd and then hit with the dread on a flank so the thunderhammer guy can't direct his attacks at the dread. I'm not sure how much difference it makes but a Knight with a Daemonhammer has strength 10 if he uses Hammerhand; unlike normal bonuses, Hammerhand applies BEFORE the strength is doubled because of the hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Be careful of using Dreads unless you have a Runepriest nearby to try and shutdown pyschic powers. A Grey Knight with a Daemon hammer can have a str9 attack on your Dread and if he's a paladin/termie with a banner it's 3 str9 attacks. Try and tie them up in cose combat with one squd and then hit with the dread on a flank so the thunderhammer guy can't direct his attacks at the dread. I'm not sure how much difference it makes but a Knight with a Daemonhammer has strength 10 if he uses Hammerhand; unlike normal bonuses, Hammerhand applies BEFORE the strength is doubled because of the hammer. Also - Hammerhand can/does stack, so you could end up facing a unit with say Cortez + Brotherhood Champ + Paladins striking with Halbers @ I6 and S7 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wait till you encounter Str 8 twin-linked autocannon rifleman dreads. Nasty. Nasty. Nasty. For what it's worth, Psyfleman Dreads are incredibly nasty against AV 10-12 vehicles, and easily shred transports and enemy Dreadnoughts. You know what they aren't nasty against? Your infantry. Every Marine still gets a 3+ or 2+ save (depending on your unit type. Unless your a unit of Wolf Scouts, which a Psyfleman should never get to target, your other infantry units, like Grey Hunters, are no more vulnerable to one than they would be to the shooting of a squad with Bolters. TWC have a little more to fear, with each failed save causing instant death, but I don't think TWC are the best unit to include anyway. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'd probably use a unit of straight up TH/SS termies against them if I were you. The 3+ invuln would help alot and since you'll be going last anyway doesn't seem like it'd make that big of a difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 How is str 8 causing ID on a TWC model? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wait till you encounter Str 8 twin-linked autocannon rifleman dreads. Nasty. Nasty. Nasty. For what it's worth, Psyfleman Dreads are incredibly nasty against AV 10-12 vehicles, and easily shred transports and enemy Dreadnoughts. You know what they aren't nasty against? Your infantry. Every Marine still gets a 3+ or 2+ save (depending on your unit type. Unless your a unit of Wolf Scouts, which a Psyfleman should never get to target, your other infantry units, like Grey Hunters, are no more vulnerable to one than they would be to the shooting of a squad with Bolters. TWC have a little more to fear, with each failed save causing instant death, but I don't think TWC are the best unit to include anyway. V S8 doesn't ID Thunderwolf Cavalry. :P They have a T5, not T4(5). :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 How is str 8 causing ID on a TWC model? Oh, yes, quite right; so you don't even have to worry about that. My point was that Psyfleman will ruin your day if you mech up. If you don't, however, they are somewhat underwhelming. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'd probably use a unit of straight up TH/SS termies against them if I were you. The 3+ invuln would help alot and since you'll be going last anyway doesn't seem like it'd make that big of a difference. This is decent advice to be fair, although this unit would likely be at least a medium priority target if the Knight player has a Vindicare Assassin. Shield Breakers would have a field day with them, providing of course, that the Vindicare doesn't have a higher priority target to engage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wouldn't they still get their 3+ invuln save before the vindicare breaks it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wouldn't they still get their 3+ invuln save before the vindicare breaks it? When the wound from a Shield Breaker is ALLOCATED to a model, that model IMMEDIATELY loses any invulnerable save granted by items of wargear for the rest of the game. Remaining saves, IF ANY, may then be taken. The Shield Breaker ignores and destroys wargear that provides invulnerable saves. Capitals are because I don't know how to do bold text, rather than me yelling, but no, Terminators would not get their invulnerable save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wouldn't they still get their 3+ invuln save before the vindicare breaks it? When the wound from a Shield Breaker is ALLOCATED to a model, that model IMMEDIATELY loses any invulnerable save granted by items of wargear for the rest of the game. Remaining saves, IF ANY, may then be taken. The Shield Breaker ignores and destroys wargear that provides invulnerable saves. Capitals are because I don't know how to do bold text, rather than me yelling, but no, Terminators would not get their invulnerable save. Luckily they can only do one a turn, if you can have a large enough force of SS lads in quick enough then it could work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 your best bet is to stick 2 powerfists into each squad of grey hunters one on the wolf guard and one on a standard grey hunter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wouldn't they still get their 3+ invuln save before the vindicare breaks it? When the wound from a Shield Breaker is ALLOCATED to a model, that model IMMEDIATELY loses any invulnerable save granted by items of wargear for the rest of the game. Remaining saves, IF ANY, may then be taken. The Shield Breaker ignores and destroys wargear that provides invulnerable saves. Capitals are because I don't know how to do bold text, rather than me yelling, but no, Terminators would not get their invulnerable save. Luckily they can only do one a turn, if you can have a large enough force of SS lads in quick enough then it could work. Oh yeah, absolutely. My intent here isn't to scare the OP off, I'm just trying to cover all the bases from the perspective of an actual Grey Knight player. I haven't seen a lot of people taking Assassins to be fair; most players opt for more Psycannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3060957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Wouldn't they still get their 3+ invuln save before the vindicare breaks it? When the wound from a Shield Breaker is ALLOCATED to a model, that model IMMEDIATELY loses any invulnerable save granted by items of wargear for the rest of the game. Remaining saves, IF ANY, may then be taken. The Shield Breaker ignores and destroys wargear that provides invulnerable saves. Capitals are because I don't know how to do bold text, rather than me yelling, but no, Terminators would not get their invulnerable save. Luckily they can only do one a turn, if you can have a large enough force of SS lads in quick enough then it could work. Oh yeah, absolutely. My intent here isn't to scare the OP off, I'm just trying to cover all the bases from the perspective of an actual Grey Knight player. I haven't seen a lot of people taking Assassins to be fair; most players opt for more Psycannons. I always have a vindicare, mainly because I want at least one model on the board on turn 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Shoot them with melta's and lascannons. All of them.. Every last bit of anything in a GK list.. just pack lascannons and then shoot them. : ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 How is str 8 causing ID on a TWC model? Rad grenades will cause S8 attacks to insta-gib TWC. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Not coming from a dread though : ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 i still say the moral to killing grey knights is to kill them the same way as...wait for it...wait...SPACE MARINES!!! (rancorous applause) thats what they are. ap3 is their bane. missiles, plasma, las, melta. you can put enough of that into a pally purifier strike to make the assault on your terms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 i still say the moral to killing grey knights is to kill them the same way as...wait for it...wait...SPACE MARINES!!! (rancorous applause) thats what they are. ap3 is their bane. missiles, plasma, las, melta. you can put enough of that into a pally purifier strike to make the assault on your terms. this isnt the case with paladins though 2+ saves makes this much more difficult to do, and even if you get past that they have feel no pain too wounds by firing a ridiculous amount of shots doesnt work too well, and ap2 weapons make things much more expensive, melta is also kinda ruled out because you are entering 24" of them entering their range of fire as i think someone mentioned a taking a model who is I5 and using Ragnars furious charge would enable to strike simultaneously with i6, but then the amount of models capable of this are slim, and you can grant fenrisian wolves this same bonus up to i6 with the Saga, but even with 45 attacks with armour saves and feel no pain chances are you will only score 1 wound Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Has anyone ever worked out the math hammer on Plasma vs missile launchers against a fully wound allocated shannigan Paladin squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I don't mean to throw a spanner in the works but the OP did state that they want to build a list that's effective against everyone, not just Grey Knights, so all the comments about maxing out on AP2 weapons/Lascannons/Meltas etc. aren't really as viable as they could be. I also think it's important to remember that even a 5-man Paladin squad with Apothecary and Banner is getting on for the 400 point mark, which will proportionally reduce the number of other models in the army. Paladins are dangerous, but the more of them a player takes, the more of YOUR guns he's freeing up to target them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Has anyone ever worked out the math hammer on Plasma vs missile launchers against a fully wound allocated shannigan Paladin squad? no question plasma cannon is much better, missile launchers can insta-kill if krak, however the paladins still get 2+ armour save and a feel no pain, and then when frag its 4+ to wound plasma cannons are 2+ to wound, no armour save or feel no pain - but inv save Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Has anyone ever worked out the math hammer on Plasma vs missile launchers against a fully wound allocated shannigan Paladin squad? no question plasma cannon is much better, missile launchers can insta-kill if krak, however the paladins still get 2+ armour save and a feel no pain, and then when frag its 4+ to wound plasma cannons are 2+ to wound, no armour save or feel no pain - but inv save Paladins don't get feel no pain against Missile launchers because they are double their toughness. Plasma cannons are harder to work out because of the intricacies of rolling to hit however I would bet that there isn't much difference between a rapid firing plasma gun and a missile launcher when it comes to killing a paladin. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/252163-facing-grey-knights-in-combat/page/2/#findComment-3061854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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