Index Astartes: Supernovas

[Wargamer]

INDEX ASTARTES: SUPERNOVAS

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"Taekar!" - a common Supernovan battle cry.

 

Far beyond the light of the Astronomicon, in one of the farthest flung tendrils of the eastern spiral arm of the galaxy, lies a pangean world oribiting a blighted blue star. It is a world of hardships, where beasts both great and small roam the surface. It is a world where the skies are ruled by wyverns and the waters filled with kraken. It is a planet where even the trees themselves come alive to swallow up the living. It is Tasal, a Deathworld, and it is here that the Supr Novr Aestra - the Supernovas - call home.

 

To know the Chapter, you must first know its people, and the people of Tasal are a diverse and warlike collection. The pinnacle of their society revolves around the bastion-cities and millennia old war trains. The latter use the great artillery guns of their titanic convoys to hunt and slay the towering, dinosaur-like plains creatures, which they in turn process into food and goods to sell to the bastions in exchange for fuel and ammunition. The men and women alike of both cultures are warrior born; trained from birth in the twin arts of sword work and autoloch marksmanship. Seaward of these people are the coastal settlements where the brave and foolhardy harvest the ocean's bounty, or pillage from one another. In doing so they risk having their ships dragged below by unholy, tentacled things, or else consumed from above by Skygrahk swarms.

The coast folk are hardy, but they are nothing compared to the Icelanders. Marauders from the southern realms, this matriarchical society is legendary across the southern regions for their feral fury. Though technologically backward, their culture is prolific, and survives in the most impossible of conditions.

 

At the other end of the scale lie the mountain folk and forest peoples. Both are few and far between, for the former dwell in the hunting grounds of dragons, and the latter live in flesh eating forests. The Wyldstawk in particular is a notorious stretch of jungle where even the Astartes do not venture lightly. Those who stray in and escape the predators and man-eating plants invariably die at the hands of the Qwaythe - naked berserkers who believe the Emperor will protect their flesh more surely than any armour.

 

To do the horrors of this world justice is impossible. A scribe could spend a lifetime cataloging all the ways Tasal may try to kill a man, and his list would cover a fraction of the planet's true deadly potential. That any men survive on this damned world at all is a miracle, but survive they do, and they pass from father to son, from mother to daughter, an ancient warrior-way that has crept into the very fabric of the Supernovas itself.

 

Founding of the Supernovas

"You don't know who we are? Heed your myths and legends, man - they're all about us!"

-Unknown Supernovan addressing the Planetary Governor of Khlonas

The Novr Aestra:

According to the legends passed down by the people of Tasal, there are beings called the Novr Aestra, which in the language of the Bastions means "the Stars that Fell". They came during a time of darkness, when green-skinned Daemons roamed the land, killing and burning and defiling all they touched. According to their legends, Cernunnos, the Horned God, became so enraged at these blasphemous creatures that he ordered the stars themselves to fall, and so they did; they fell in the guise of men. These men wore armour no bullet or blade could pierce, and armed with autolochs that spat bullets as powerful as any deck gun. The Novr Aestra slaughtered the green Daemons, and restored order, of a sort, to Tasal.

 

Imperial History does, to an extent, agree with these tales; long ago, a small detachment of Space Wolves led an expeditionary fleet into the farthest corners of the galaxy. The reason is long lost, but it is claimed to be a matter of personal honour; one so great and so dire that even Leman Russ himself would not command the quest abandoned. Whatever the truth, the Space Wolves hunted their quarry to Tasal, and fought a great legion of Orks there. It was a long and bloody crusade that waged for so long, and so far flung from the rest of the galaxy, that the Heresy came and went by the time the Sons of Russ were contacted once more.

 

If the myths of the Supernovas are to be believed, Leman Russ ordered his sons home when the Heresy broke out in force, yet the Wolf Lord found himself torn; there were many foes yet to face, and to abandon Tasal would surely invite more Orks to claim it in their absence. The Wolves had come to respect the courage of the Tasalians, who had always proven themselves willing to fight even against hopeless odds. Thus was the Wolf Lord given a choice, of sorts; he could return home, or else he could sire a new Chapter, forever forsaking his links with the Space Wolves. The latter was chosen, and the Wolves adopted the name the Tasalians had given them - the Novr Aestra.

 

The Curse of Novr:

Whether the Novr Aestra were ever a Chapter at all is, today, a matter of debate amongst Imperial scholars. However, the Supernovas themselves insist that the Chapter did exist, if only for a time. Barely had they founded, come to strength and begun to cleanse the surrounding stars did the 'Curse of Novr' strike them. At first, only a few Novitae were lost, but then as time went on ever more aspirants began to reject their genetic inheritence. The Chapter destabalised, and unable to replenish its losses it was quickly decimated. By the time the call for aid was received and acted upon by the wider Imperium, barely half the Legion remained.

 

The only solution the High Lords could propose was to refound the Chapter - an idea that was initially rejected, but eventually allowed when the Novr Aestra dwindled to barely two hundred Astartes. The High Lords were already in the process of founding a new Chapter, one of Ultramarine stock, and so instead chose to amalgamate this unborn Chapter with the Novr Aestra. From that point on, the Chapter would make sole use of Ultramarine Geneseed, with their original, corrupted stock returned to Terra for study and storage.

Reforged in Ultramarine genestock, the Chapter prospered once more, though the 'new blood' did not take kindly to the Fenrisian style organisation and sought to implement a more orthadox, Codex structure. The resulting conflict of character would take many centuries to resolve, and would indeed outlive the last of the Fenrisian warriors. For the people of Tasal, all of this went unheeded - they were oblivious to the change, but did note that after a time the Angels of Death began to call themselves "Secr Novr" - The Second Stars. This Tasalian name became bastardised into the Low Gothic "Supernovas" by the Ultramarine-stock Astartes and Gothic speaking Chapter serfs, and the name stuck.

 

All of this is, of course, viewed with a great deal of skepticism by most Imperial scholars. According to official Administratum records, kept in a secure vault at the heart of Terra, the Supernovas were founded at some time in M32, using Ultramarine gene-stock - an assertion supported by their Gene Tithe records - and the Adeptus Terra have this dismissed all other claims as false.

 

Chapter Organisation

"Lochs and Loads at hand, all souls; from here on out, there be Dragons."

-Traditional Supernovan saying, recited when passing beyond the light of the Astronomicon.

The Supernovas are, for the most part, a Codex Chapter. Their biggest deviation lies in the adoption of the master-pupil relationship of their homeworld, resulting in the dissolution of the Scout Company. As such, the Supernovas have only nine Companies, each of approximately 120 men. The First Company retains the role of veteran company. The rest of the Chapter is expected to function as an autonomous force, and by and large the Chapter Master does not dictate how and when a Company may deploy its men. Only in the direst of circumstances will the Chapter be pooled together as a single fighting force.

 

In place of scouts, the Supernovas have Novitae. These are 'adopted' by a Marine, who will teach them everything they need to know - from combat skills to the Chapter's lore and customs. They will follow their mentors into battle just as the Novitae of Tasal's people do, and in time they will be granted Battle Brother status should their skill and courage prove adequate. These young warriors are typically kept out of the thickest fighting, and may sometimes be placed into an ad-hoc squad so they can 'watch and learn' from a safe distance whilst their masters engage in bloody hand to hand combat. Should a Novitae be killed, it is not unheard of for his mentor to abandon his position and hunt down those responsible in order to exact revenge. Such acts of recklessness are rarely punished beyond a token word of chastisement, assuming the Marine survives.

 

Unlike normal Chapters, the Supernovas have no fixed Assault or Devastator squads. Instead, they refer to their units as Battle Squads, which are functionally similar if not identical to Tactical Squads. When the need arises, such as when expecting heavy armour or Tyranid bio-engines, a Battle Squad will re-equip themselves for Devastator duty, though this typically only happens when other squads remain to fill the Tactical role.

Assault squads are a much less common formation, put together from volunteers from other squads and only when there is no other option. An Assault Squad is always the first to the fray, leading boarding actions, storming the vents of hive cities and other high-risk missions. It is little wonder that those Supernovans who volunteer for Assault Marine duty frequently die, but any Assault Marine who survives is typically fast-tracked to veteran status, particularly if they have completed several such missions.

 

Heraldry:

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Left to right: Supernovas colours pre M34; Supernovas colours pre M38; modern Supernovas colours; Supernovan bearing the squad heraldry of Captain Xeran, 4th Company.

Note that the Aquila clutching the Omega has sometimes been refered to as the Chapter symbol of the Supernovas. This appears to be an administrative error on the part of an Adept sometime in M34, and has only in recent years been corrected. A formal complaint and request for his dismissal has been submitted to the Administratum.

 

Supernovan colours are not fixed; the only common trait within the Chapter is that they typically wear blue, representing their star, Cerun. The 'official' uniform of the Supernovas is a rich cobalt with deep blue helm and shoulder trim, but most Marines paint their helmet and trim black instead. This is apparently to honour their Chapter Master, Ximo, whose heraldic colour is black.

 

Indeed, the adoption of heraldry is a very common trait amongst the Supernovas. Companies, squads or even individual Astartes may change their uniforms to honour various encounters. For example, Captain Xeran and his first squad all paint their left shoulder pads black with red trim in honour of the Fates Angels, whilst Sergeant Arrax and the 7th squad of Ninth Company adopt elements of the Bright Lords colour scheme. Typically, the adoption of a heraldry will be done only so long as at least one of the participants still lives. This in turn ensures that squad markings and colours shift constantly, with only the most Chapter-shaking events resulting in permanent shifts in colour scheme.

 

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Crude approximation of traditional Tasalian tartan. Supernovas recruited from the Icelands often favour the use of tartan.

 

Finally, and much to the confusion of Administratum officials, the 'older' colours are still in use amongst some squads. Why is unknown, but formal complaints are periodically sent to, and ignored by, the Chapter on this matter.

 

Equipment:

By far the most striking aspect of the Supernovas is their armour, which is almost universally ancient. The majority of the Chapter goes to war in full or partial Mk VI 'Corvus' armour, with a small (but significant) number of older suits also in circulation. It is believed that the Forgeworlds that supply the Chapter with the bulk of their equipment is still producing the Corvus pattern armour despite (or perhaps in spite of) the enhancements Mk VII 'Aquila' armour provides.

 

As with any Chapter, the primary weapon of the Supernovas is the Bolter. Traditionally, Supernovas favoured the light-weight Mk I "Umbra" pattern Bolter, but a combination of supply issues and the lack of armoured body casing meant that it became difficult to maintain the weapon, and so the Chapter forged supply pacts with the Forge World of Tigrus. When Tigrus itself was lost to the Orks, the Chapter was forced to resort to the more common "Godwyn" pattern Bolters. However, it seems the Supernovas much prefer their older models, and Techmarines of the Chapter are constantly seeking to make contact with any Magos who can produce parts, or even whole weapons, to the specifications of the increasingly obsolete patterns.

 

The Supernovas favour an unusual 'Terminus' pattern frag grenade as its main anti-personnel explosive. It is a disk-shape explosive, small enough to fit in the palm of the hand yet with an explosive force much larger than its tiny size suggests. The secrets to producing Terminus were believed lost during the Horus Heresy, along with countless other examples of technological innovation. One copy of the Template was discovered by the Chapter sometime after the Age of Apostacy, and was kept a closely guarded secret for millennia. Though the Forges that supply the Chapter were eventually permitted to use the STC, the Supernovas themselves keep it under lock and key in their Chapter vaults; a fact that has tested the patience of the Mechanicum more than once. The Supernovas claim that they wish to hand over the template (a claim made many times), but that they are unable to do so at the present time due to the Adeptus Terra's political structure having incorrectly catalogued the artifact as a Sacred Relic of the Ecclesiarchy and thus rendering it irretrievable by the Mechanicus.

An astute reader of records may note that this claim has been made half a dozen times over the past three millennia, suggesting that (if their excuse as any truth in it at all) the Chapter has become very good at 'losing' messages within the byzantine workings of the Adeptus Terra.

 

Beliefs and Rituals

"As He was born of Terra, so are we born of Him. All of Humanity carry His light within them; we, perhaps, just burn a little brighter than most."

-Chaplain Lachr, Supernovas Third Company.

The Cult of Tasal:

The Supernovas honour the Emperor in the guise of Cernunnos - the Horned God. They believe that the Emperor is the father of all mankind, and as such all men carry within them a tiny portion of his divine might. They believe that evil is caused by Daemonic influence, and that the only way to fight against the Daemonic is to remain pure of heart and purpose.

By and large, the Supernovas do not share the nature of their Cult with outsiders, particularly those of the Ecclesiarchy.

The symbol of Cernunnos is the triskelion – the three-pronged ward. It is said to protect against physical, mental and spiritual corruption, and represents the Emperor’s divine blessing. The Supernovas appear to have adopted this as their heraldic device some time in M36; before that, records suggest their symbol was a skull haloed by a blue star.

The colour used to portray the triskelion varies from squad to squad, but green is the common choice. It is believed that the colour used has some significance beyond mere cosmetics; assault squads, for example, favour a red triskelion. The symbol is never, under any circumstances, painted in white; this appears to be a ‘bad omen’ of some kind, and the Astartes become enraged at the idea. Given white is associated with death on Tasal, it is possible a white triskelion symbolises the death of the Emperor.

 

Taekar:

One of the most common rituals within the Chapter is known as “Taekar”. Many attempts have been made to translate this phrase, but outsiders remain unclear as to its meaning. All that is known is that the word is a call to arms amongst the Chapter; once Taekar is declared, blood must be spilt. However, it is not simply a battle cry. One of its uses includes the passing of a weapon to another by a dying warrior – the declaration of Taekar in this context seems to imply that the weapon should be carried in honour of the dead, perhaps to avenge them, or else simply so that they will live on through it.

Shockingly, the Supernovas have been known to turn on one another in the name of this ritual. Should Taekar be invoked recklessly, or prematurely, two of the Astartes present will typically duel with blades, fighting until blood is drawn. Rumours persist that Marines have died for the sake of satisfying this ritual, though as ever finding proof of such claims is extremely difficult.

 

The Chapter Weyes:

Long ago, sometime in M33, the entire Supernovas Chapter embarked on a crusade against the enemies of Man. The history of this crusade is long and glorious, and the course it followed became known as the Novr Weye by the Chapter. Ten years later the Second Company followed that path again, and so, tentatively, the tradition of the Chapter Weyes was formed.

 

A Weye is any patrol route that follows the course of a notable crusade. Weyes can be as small as the Weye of the Shield, which reaches one world close to Tasal, or as vast as the Weye of the Dead, which passes through the Sol system and beyond to the western fringes of the galaxy.

 

As the Supernovas patrol the Weyes, they are expected to answer any and all calls for aid they find. Typically, these patrols are only a squad or two of Marines travelling on a small escort ship, but the Chapter has found this is usually sufficient to deal with most threats. If it is not, the ship will call for assistance, and entire Companies can be deployed to their aid.

 

The right to travel a Weye is reserved only for members of a certain Company. Those who wish to use a Weye that does not ‘belong’ to their Company must either acquire temporary permission from the Captain who ‘owns’ the Weye, or else win the rights off him in ritual challenge. Sometimes, however, a Chapter Master will override these protocols. For example, the Weye of Mourning may only be followed by the Sixth Company, as it was on this Weye that they were all but wiped out in M37.

 

New Weyes are only officially founded with the approval of the Chapter Master, and not every flight path or crusade course constitutes a Weye. As such, it is a rare and special honour for a Crusade group to be permitted to forge a Weye.

 

Combat Doctrine

"We are ten men, they are ten thousand. Poor odds, Brothers; they should have waited for reinforcements."

-Sergeant Lata So Karza, killed during the Calming of Moldaranna.

The Supernovan way of fighting is heavily influenced both by their local culture, and their deployment doctrine. Typically deployed in task forces of only one or two squads, perhaps with a handful of vehicles, a Supernovan knows with absolute certainty that he goes into battle heavily outnumbered.

 

The first wave of a typical Supernovan attack is pre-empted by Deathwind pods - a Drop Pod whose harness space is stripped out in favour of automated weapons, such as assault cannons or missile launchers. They fire indescriminately, filling the area with a storm of bullets, missiles, grenades and plasma bolts until they are destroyed, or their ammunition is expended. The Supernovas will drop these weapon platforms not only into potential landing zones, but any position where they will likely disrupt enemy actions.

As soon as the Deathwind Pods fall silent the Drop Pods slam down, taking full advantage of the enemy's confusion and fear to break their morale. These attacks are typically over in mere minutes; if total victory cannot be achieved in a single strike, the Astartes will either attempt extraction to a Thunderhawk, or fight to a more defensible position. Meanwhile, support vehicles will be deployed to anchor the rally point, allowing the Battle Squads to fall back under covering fire from Predators or Whirlwinds.

 

Vindicators and other siege equipment is relatively scarce within the Supernovas. Though they have partaken in some significant siege battles, they typically avoid them where possible. Some men, like Dyus 'Ironforged', are very much the exception to this rule; Dyus believes siege combat to the be ultimate form of warfare. By and large, however, a Supernovan force is unlikely to have Vindicators to call upon save in larger conflicts. Land Raiders are likewise a rarity, and fully half of them are the venerable, albeit mechanically inferior Mk IIb models. These precious machines rarely ever leave the Chapter's armoury, and so their presence on the field is both a boon to morale for the Supernovas, and a visual sign that the battle they partake in is dire indeed.

 

Since their inception, the Supernovas have always valued speed. Whilst the same is likely true of many Chapters, the Supernovas fight tooth and nail to retain mobility at all costs. Bikes and Land Speeders are deployed freely, and it is not uncommon for a squad to engage 'Dragoon style', riding from combat zone to combat zone on bikes before dismounting to take the fight to the enemy as an infantry formation.

 

Engaging as they do in such small numbers, Supernovas have been known to refuse to commit to conflicts that the commanding officer believes cannot be won. This stalling tactic occurs only as long as is required to pool a sufficiently large force, but still it has earned the Chapter some ill feeling in the past. On occasion, Guard commanders have dared to berate the Supernovas for stalling and not deployng what forces they had. Other times squads have gone into battle without waiting for support, either for the sake of honour or appeasing their allies, and been wiped out as a result.

The Imperium as a whole cares not for the specific nature of these little squabbles; as long as victory is ultimately achieved, that is all that matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

Recruitment

"Here, in this hallowed place, you are born anew. Tasal shall be your mother and I, in the guise of the Horned God, shall be your father."

-A recitation made to a Novitae during the Rituals of Initiation.

The people of Tasal are bound to the Chapter by ancient charters. These are written on fine parchment and in human blood, which the Chapter periodically updates and maintains. The blood-pacts these charters represent are the most solemn vow that any man on Tasal, the Supernovas included, could ever make. Signed by the Chapter Master at the time of making, to break such a pact would be a disgrace so terrible that few amongst the Supernovas dare contemplate it.

 

Every charter is slightly different. The Charter of Qwaythe states that the Supernovas may carry away any boy whose body has broken, yet whose soul has not yet returned to Terra. The Charter of Storms allows the Supernovas to recruit any Novitae they find adrift at sea off the western coasts, whilst the Charter of Yyth-Lyrs only allows recruitment of those who complete the ritual trials held once every two years.

By and large, these stipulations do not hinder the Supernovas. Tasalians are a surprisingly hardy people, and as with any Chapter that recruits from a Death World, their rejection rate is comparatively low. Combined with recruits pulled from the Serf Households, Enclave Yards and other vassal elements of the wider Chapter, the Supernovas have never found themselves short on prospective fighting men.

 

Supernovan recruits are encouraged to take pride in their past, and usually carry the traditions of their homeland with them. For example, a Qwaythian who becomes a Librarian may tattoo his skin black in the manner of their witch-doctors, whilst the Steppenkin favour ostentatious facial hair and the pelts of mountain beasts. Whilst this can lead to some animosity, this is bred away very quickly; Novitae are drilled to accept the Chapter as their new people, and to embrace all the cultures of their homeworld.

 

The Adepta Astartes:

The Icelands have long been known as one of the best places to find hardy warrior folk. Whilst none of the peoples of Tasal are weak, it takes a special kind of endurance to survive in the freezing waters of the southern ocean. Since the earliest days, young men of the ice have been taken to the Trials by the Chapter, and since those days there have been those who question the methods used to choose who is taken.

The Icelands are for the most part a matriarchical society. Though the tribes are not always united, each one is typically ruled over by a queen of some description, who is in turn subordinate to the Empress of the Ice, or an equivlanet position, as and when a warlord rises to unify them. Thus, ever since the first Charters were made, there have been those who have demanded that women be taken to trial.

Sometimes, for the sake of humouring the natives, a handful of women would be taken - rarely more than half a dozen at a time across all the tribes. They would, for the sake of the thing, be tested with the men and, in due course, rejected due to incompatability. They became Serfs, and so served the Chapter in their own way.

 

A decade or so prior to the conflict known as the 'Inquisition War', a Chapter Serf was sent to forge a new Charter, one that would permit the Chapter to draw a larger number of recruits from their lands. Such matters were usually dealt with by a herald - a mortal Serf entrusted to speak on behalf of the Chapter Master. In this case, the Serf chosen was Anja; a girl who had been uplifted into the Chapter six years previously. It was believed the Icelanders would be more receptive to the Charter if presented by one of their own. No-one, not even Ximo himself, had predicted just what Anja would do with the power entrusted to her.

 

When the Astartes came to collect the recruits, they learned that six hundred Novitae had been brought for the Trials, all of which were female. Anja, it turned out, had harbored a long resentment that no woman had ever been found worthy of becoming an Astartes, and had taken it upon herself to make the Charter open to all, male and female. It was signed in fresh blood - she had slit her palms upon the sword of the Queen of Ice to bind the Chapter to this agreement.

 

The senior members of the Chapter met and argued between themselves how to proceed. Anja's actions dishonoured them, for the Chapter took the Charters very seriously - some, albeit a minority, claimed that they would have to disband in shame if they failed to honour them. Others pointed out that they need only put the girls to Trial - nowhere did it say they had to succeed. Ximo listened to both sides in silence, his face unreadable behind the mask of scars and augmentic implants. Finally, when all others had spoken their fill, he made his choice; he would honour the Charter and put the girls to trial, but he would not permit the Chapter to let them fail and pretend honour was satisfied. They would do all they could to find a way to augment the female aspirants to the point where the Gene-seed would hold. Only then, once every effort had been made, could honour be satisfied one way or the other.

 

Apothecaries and Genesmiths worked tirelessly at Ximo’s behest. The girls were strong, for their people had chosen them well, but the hell they endured was long and costly. Hormonal treatments were used; organs were transplanted or cut out entirely; flesh-grafts taken from the dead, or clone-grown in vats, were applied and hundreds of other experimentations were made. This process killed many of the aspirants, damning them to a lingering, agonising death on the surgical tables of the Apothecaries. Of the six hundred who were submitted, a full half died in the name of furthering the Chapter's pursuit of a solution.

At last, the right forumula was found and repeated. Acceptance rates of sample tissue was low, but within acceptable boundaries. The next stage - true Gene-seed implantation - could begin.

This process was not without its setbacks either. Many of those who were implanted died during the Fever Fleep - a chemically induced coma during which the Aspirant's bodies adapt to their new organs. “They do not lie as the boys do, sweating and twitching," one Apothecary recounted, "The [female aspirants] were violent in their sleep. We had to strap them down; they had fits, they bit their tongues, they soiled themselves and vomited blood and offal. We opened them up after to save what we could of the Gene, but many had burst their insides, so violent was the rejection.”

Finally, after their months-long sleep, the female Aspirants began to stir. As with their male counterparts they were forever changed in both body and mind. The final stages of their initiation claimed or two more, but no more or less than would be expected of any bath of recruits.

 

Despite the hardships of their creation, those who survived became noteworthy members of the Chapter. Perhaps it was because they were strange, and so the Chapter paid more attention to their efforts. Perhaps, with all eyes on them, they felt they had something to prove. Perhaps, as Sister Mytal claimed, their homeland simply bred a better class of warrior.

Whatever the reason, of the twelve Sisters who survived their Novitaetion and became full Astartes, all have earned an honour roll to be proud of: Mytal of the Fourth has become Company Champion; Laasa became squad sergeant within the Sixth, and Freja’s skill as an Assault Marine has many believing she will be the first Adepta to join the First Company. This honour roll was quickly joined by the likes of Seyth – a Bastion-born northern girl who was recruited due to her psychic potential.

Today, the Supernovas continue to recruit female aspirants, not only from the southern ice but other realms as well. It is not a universal policy; some cultures hold that women should not be warriors, whilst other Charters explicitly state only men may apply. However, there are no shortage of warrior women on Tasal, and though most never survive to become full Astartes, there will never be a shortage of warrior-women who dream of becoming an Angel of Death.

 

Allies and Enemies

"Cernunnos forgive me for saying this, but damn to hell the Blazing Kitsunes for introducing Ximo to 'tea'!"

-[supposed] quote from a Supernovan Captain.

The Supernovas ideology places them as warrior-knights; men sworn to defend their people (ie: all of Humanity) no matter the cost. In this sense they are one of the more 'humanitarian' Chapters, and typically find common ground with Chapters who share their world view. Numbered amongst their allies are the Salamanders and Space Wolves; two Chapters rendowned for believing in Humanity as a whole.

 

Other allies are forged through common conflict. The Fate's Angels Fifth Company fought alongside the then-Sergeant Xeran against the Necrons, and subsequently at Celadon, despite the former force's belief the mission was a lost cause. Ultimately, a bond was formed between the two forces, and though they have not acted together again, the knowledge that Xeran still wears Fate's Angels colours with pride is living proof to the oaths of brotherhood that were sworn at the Battle of the Aqueduct.

 

A more common ally is that of the Bright Lords. The two Chapters have fought together in conflicts both large and small, and though there has been some tension with regard to specifics of their respective creeds, war forged a bond strong enough to overcome these minor issues. To date, the two Chapters retain strong ties, and more than once have the Chapters partaken in 'exchange programs' to strengthen their bond.

 

The Blazing Kitsunes are one of the stranger examples of Supernovan alliances. Chapter Master Ximo met with the Chapter in passing whilst on route to a meeting of Chapter Masters, and was invited to partake in their tea ceremony. He became so fond of the ritual that, upon returning to Tasal, he had a tea room constructed and began partaking in the ritual on an almost daily basis. It is rumoured he takes pleasure in how uncomfortable it makes his Captains, being forced as they are to drink tea and contemplate off-world art and poetry for a good half hour before Ximo will permit matters of war.

 

The Inquisition War:

In the early days of M41, a squad under the command of Sergeant Xeran, operating under-strength due to losses in battle against the Orks, received a distress call from the hive world of Grimadon. The world had been where the Eldar had dealt the Chapter a humiliating defeat years before, and when the reports indicated those same Eldar were active, Xeran allowed pride to sway his judgement. Against the counsel of his squad, Xeran took what few men he had left to Grimadon, and set to hunting down whatever secrets the Eldar had hidden in the depths of the planet.

 

Xeran's efforts brought his squad into conflict with Here-Teks and other madmen of the dark places of the hive, and in so doing he inadvertantly invoked the fury of the Inquisition. The Ordo Hereticus had been working for decades to infiltrate the growing Tek-cults of the undercity, and Xeran's brute force methodology was causing them to scatter into the unreachable places. Xeran cared nothing for the complaints of a low-level Inquisitor, especially when his prey was still at large.

At last, the Eldar were brought to battle in the heart of the world. A chamber, clearly Eldar-wrought, housed a Farseer and her bodyguard, as well as strange devices of no clear purpose. Xeran and his men killed the Eldar, unaware that this was their ultimate goal. The devices were Doomsday Engines built to protect a greater secret. The soul of the dead Farseer was drawn into the Engine, and its dark runes flared into life. Whatever power lay beneath Grimadon, it was one the Eldar would not share.

 

The Supernovas fled the planet as the Eldar's deadly engines tore it asunder. A hundred billion lives were extinguished in mere hours, and the planet was transformed into an impenetrable asteroid cloud. Most of the Inquisitors present on Grimadon were killed, but one survived - a young Inquisitor whose name has been lost to the void. He cared not for the explanations Xeran offered for what had happened, believing that the Astartes were Traitors and had destroyed the planet to serve the Ruinous Powers. Thus did this man embark on a personal crusade for revenge, one that would have lasting implications for the region. The Inquisitor demanded that the Supernovas be declared Excomunnicate Traitoris, a request that was deemed excessive by his superiors. Instead, he was ordered to 'bring the Chapter to account' for what had happened on Grimadon. A wiser man would have understood the meaning of this order, but vengeance has a way of blinding men to wisdom.

 

In a remarkably short time, the Inquisitor was able to assemble a taskforce. Several hundred Sisters of Battle, as well as three army groups comprising of over thirty regiments of Imperial Guard were pooled and made ready within weeks of the loss of Grimadon. There were soon reinforced by a small detatchment of Black Templars, whose Navigators had seen the psychic death-scream of the planet and come to investigate. More forces came in time; eight regiments of the Guard raised on Grimadon, as well as a company-strength force of the Knights of Flame Chapter.

It was a good start, but more was needed. As the fleet moved to blockade Tasal, the call to arms was sent to countless other Chapters. Some, like the Conquerors, ignored this cry for aid, refusing to fight another Astartes without proof of corruption. Other Chapters simply ignored the missives altogether. The Acolytes of Vengeance responded by launching their own investigation, dispatching a Battle Barge to Grimadon. This in turn resulted in a secondary conflict; a small-scale fleet engagement that the Inquisitor's token guards in the Grimadon system could not possibly win. The Acolytes of Vengeance sent Astropathic missives to the nearest Inquisitorial conclave, stating they had been fired upon on the orders of the Ordo Hereticus and demanding retribution.

 

Things were quickly going wrong for the Inquisitor. Estimates suggested that the Supernovas were under stength, with no more than two thirds of their Chapter planetside. As the last of his allies crept into the system he knew there was no more time to waste. With reports of Supernovan ships of all sizes on a return course to Tasal, the Inquisitor played his hand.

The orbital defences of Tasal were terrible things to behold, designed to withstand the worst any enemy could throw at them. They were undeniably effective. The fleet attacked from above the galactic plane, but even then the sole polar station that could track them was more than enough to ruin their strike force. Many warships were crippled, but an advantage was gained in that Ximo had predicted the station would be taken intact, thus preventing safe approach for the rest of the Supernovan fleet. Instead, the platform was blasted from point blank range, all but wiping out the second Company charged with its defence. Ximo ordered the Astartes fleet to abandon the planet and regroup.

With safe drop sites now available, the true war began. The Knights of Flame landed directly within the main starport, meeting heavy resistance from the third and fourth Companies. The Black Templars laid siege to the First Bastion, believing that Ximo would lead the defence from there. They were countered by elements of the first and eighth, led by the Chapter's siegemaster, Dyus Ironforged.

 

Elsewhere, the people of Tasal themselves rose to fight. The Sisters of Battle, sent to push through the jungles and flank the Starport, found themselves assaulted by naked fanatics that threw themselves at tanks and bolter gunlines, unheeding of the danger. Unknown to the Sisters, these attacks were designed by Ximo to lure them into the Wyldstawk. They succeeded; the Sisters chased the native mobs into the deep places of the jungle, and never returned. Some were ambushed by the Qwaythe and killed, others by handful of Space Marines lurking there. Most were killed by the forest itself, for unlike the natives the Sisters did not know how to move through without disturbing the place. Super-predators worthy of any Death World tore apart their tanks, whilst flesh-eating plants dragged shrieking Sisters into digestion pods, or punched vampiric feelers into skin to suck out their vital fluids.

 

The first wave was blunted, though at a cost of hundreds of Astartes and tens of thousands of Mortals loyal to the Chapter. The Supernovan fleet launched its counter-attack, and they punished the attackers horribly. For weeks the surface and orbital approaches were filled with running battles as both sides tried to gain the advantage, but a Space Marine Chapter defending its home is no easy foe to overcome; it was becoming clear that, even lacking a large portion of its fighting strength, the Supernovas would not be broken.

 

The Inquisitor ordered the retreat, leaving his men on the surface of the planet. As his ships fled to the rally point Astartes warships of the Acolytes of Vengeance translated into system, escorting a Lord-Inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos. They had found evidence of Eldar involvement on Grimadon; psionic aftershocks, the particle remains of Wraithbone devices, and numerous abandoned watchposts whose wards had been shattered by the planet's death.

 

Thus, the War was ended, yet the aftermath was felt for many years to come. Relations with the Black Templars and Knights of Flame were strained by the war; the Black Templar survivors took their dead with them, but the Knights of Flame had been slaughtered to a man and the Supernovas claimed their dead as their own, replacing the hundred or so progenoids rendered irrecoverable. When the Chapter learned of this they naturally demanded Ximo return their artefacts and Gene-seed. Normally diplomatic, Ximo refused to bow to the demands; upon learning they too were of Ultramarine stock, he ordered the Knights Gene-seed be used to raise the next generation of recruits to help replenish losses the Chapter had suffered.

 

For now, these actions have gone unanswered, but it is unlikely the Knights of Flame will stand by and accept this insult for long...

[TrashMan]

Female Space Marines????

 

 

No.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

1. Has a 1% of being female.
   

'splutters'

 

Ok, even I'm not that crazy. This might mean that you only have 15 female marines, but that's fifteen too many. Sorry :confused:

[Wargamer]

Female Space Marines????

 

 

No.

The fact you can't give reasons not to just proves I'm right to do so. :confused:

 

I've done plenty of reading into the topic; I see no reason why they cannot exist. Sure, they won't exactly be 'sexy' by any definition (they'd probably be less 'feminine' than female body builders), but they can exist.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I've done plenty of reading into the topic; I see no reason why they cannot exist. Sure, they won't exactly be 'sexy' by any definition (they'd probably be less 'feminine' than female body builders), but they can exist.

Finally, the old Librarian stopped, looking out over a vast holographic display, which shifted every few minutes, shining the light on the story of another of the Emperor's sons. He saw marines in blue armor battle the Eldar through a maze of wraithbone and death, while lightning slashed all around; before the holograph shifted. Now he saw marines in red and gold launching a devastating artillery barrage on a city, reducing it to smoldering ruins of ash and smoke. Again the image shifted, and now it showed what appeared to be a Female Marine. Not a Sister of Battle as he recognized, but a marine, similar in stature to him and his brothers. He watched as a horde of marines from many chapters descended upon her, slaying her in a flurry of rage. The killing blow was a large ball, gleaming and smooth, with three holes in it, possibly the size of fingers. The ball flew from the sky and crushed her skull, ending her completely. Following the path the ball had taken, the marine saw a large figure in green armor, with a white eagle upon his chest, and a blood red bolter in his hand. The figure stooped down and retrieved his ball, before wiping it clean.

 

"What was that? What just happened?" The marine wanted to know more about this female marine, why she was attacked, and why the warrior in green armor ended her life with a glowing ball.

 

"This is the Liber. That was blasphemy, trying to rise up in defiance of our Immortal Emperor and His Laws. Such things happen, though the Liber itself often unites to destroy such threats. You saw yourself how the "abomination" fared, did you not?" The Librarian cast a sidelong glance at his companion, discerning his reaction.

 

The marine looked shocked, "Was she a traitor then? One who turned from His light?"

 

"No." The answer was simple, concise, and immediate. "She was an abomination, worked against the laws of nature and the Emperor. This is the nature of the Liber Astartes. The strong survive, the weak die off, and those who go against the Law of the Liber are quickly and fiercely set upon. Now, watch."

 

The marine turned back to the hologram, where the dead female marine lay. He watched in amazement as she disappeared, replaced by a regular marine, tall and strong.

 

I think that just about sums it up. Seriously - just about the entire Liber - you being the exception - knows this is just... wrong. There is a reason nobody does it. It's far, far worse than even traitor geneseed attempts...

[Wargamer]

So your explanation is... "you can't do it because you can't"? Do you work for GW by chance?

 

I've been down other forums, ones I'm more active on, and debated this topic. My initial stance was that Female Marines don't exist because "it's not worth the effort." and I justified that because IT MAKES SENSE.

 

That's the key point; if you are going to tell someone it can't be done, they are going to ask "why not?" and you have to give a good answer. I myself can give good answers as to why they can't exist; because the Geneseed is designed to work on men only - it requires 'male tissues' (whatever that means). As such, females lack the required elements to accept the Geneseed.

 

But right there, I've just given reason why they can exist. What is a 'male tissue'? Aside from the reproductive system (and I seriously doubt THAT is what defines a Space Marine) the primary differences between men and women are hormonal. A few implants here, some hormonal therapy there, and you can 'trick' the Geneseed into accepting your aspirant. A friend of mine also suggested that if you artificially induced Klinefelter's syndrome in a person, giving them XXY chromosomes, that might allow them to become Marines - assuming that the geneseed only works if it can locate a 'Y' chromosome.

 

The final challenge, of course, is to explain why they haven't been mentioned before. Within my own Chapter I have two explanations; they don't mention it to outsiders because the Inquisition is, as a rule, likely to react the same way most Forum Trolls do. The second is that, when it's all said and done, they're Marines first, women second. By the time an Adepta becomes a full-blown Marine they're so far changed that just about the only way a normal person would spot they're female is if they stipped naked and even then, given some of the theories I've heard about why Marines can't reproduce, you can't be sure that'd be proof.

 

Feel free to disapprove, but don't for an instant believe I will listen, or even give a :confused:, if you can't provide justification to back up your opinion.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I've done plenty of reading into the topic; I see no reason why they cannot exist. Sure, they won't exactly be 'sexy' by any definition (they'd probably be less 'feminine' than female body builders), but they can exist.

 

Well, as far as we know, the geneseed acts off of testosterone in some unknown way, making it limited to the male half of the population. Females can be augmented, but not using the Adeptus Astartes genetech.

 

EDIT: In reply you your ninja skills, the problem is, the Imperium doesn't know how to do anything like that. Both science and technology are a religion to them, not a logical action. They wouldn't be able to mess with genetics because they don't have an instruction manual from more than 10,000 years ago or a Female Marine-o-Matic 9000 STC.

[Wargamer]

Yeah... I had a reply lined up to that, but I don't want to drag this any further off topic than it has gone already... so I'm going to leave it for a new thread, should one appear.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

In that case, DAT, can we get a thread move? :confused:

[Octavulg]

But right there, I've just given reason why they can exist. What is a 'male tissue'? Aside from the reproductive system (and I seriously doubt THAT is what defines a Space Marine) the primary differences between men and women are hormonal. A few implants here, some hormonal therapy there, and you can 'trick' the Geneseed into accepting your aspirant. A friend of mine also suggested that if you artificially induced Klinefelter's syndrome in a person, giving them XXY chromosomes, that might allow them to become Marines - assuming that the geneseed only works if it can locate a 'Y' chromosome.

 

Female Space Marines are, in-universe, known to be impossible (and there is a lot of pseudoscience about male hormones etc). Thus, if you want to have female Space Marines in a fashion that fits with the universe as it is known, you must first explain why anyone would try it in the first place. Then you must explain why it is possible. If you succeed at that, you must then explain why it is worth the effort (if your explanation involves particular difficulties). And finally you must explain why the Adeptus Mechanicus have not descended on your chapter demanding explanations (whether out of curiosity or a desire to burn some heretics).

 

The explanation you've offered above doesn't do the first, creates an explanation for the second that would seem to be incredibly difficult even for the sometimes-miraculous science of the Imperium, doesn't bother with the third, and explains the fourth reasonably enough.

 

I am unconvinced.

[TrashMan]

It is impossible acoring ot lore.

No one even knows enough to even attmpt it, let alone suceed.

And no chapter master is crazy enough to even try.

 

 

No mens no.

There are no female marines. Never have been. Never will be. Never should be.

[Wargamer]

I'll say to you what I said elsewhere:

 

Female Space Marines are, in-universe, known to be impossible

"Impossible" is just a word meaning "I am too lazy to explain it." Very few things are truly "impossible" in 40K; at best, they are simply rediculously hard to plausibly explain. Adepta Astartes do not come close.

To be clear, nowhere does it state "it is impossible for a woman to be a Space Marine." Instead, it just mentions men. It tells us men are recruited, and that men become Space Marines. They've done the same thing with the Imperial Guard for decades, and yet nobody seemed to bat an eyelid when the first books appeared with Female Guardsman, or when the Tanith model range included *gasp* women dressed like they were soldiers!

 

Thus, if you want to have female Space Marines in a fashion that fits with the universe as it is known, you must first explain why anyone would try it in the first place. Then you must explain why it is possible. If you succeed at that, you must then explain why it is worth the effort (if your explanation involves particular difficulties). And finally you must explain why the Adeptus Mechanicus have not descended on your chapter demanding explanations (whether out of curiosity or a desire to burn some heretics).

 

And I shall:

 

Why try? Honour. What other reason need there be?

Ximo, Chapter Master of the Supernovas, faced dishonouring himself and a portion of the Tasalian people due to the carelessness of a Serf, who had acted in his stead. Yes, outsiders would not care. Yes, the Chapter would likely understand. Hell, even the Icelanders themselves would forget eventually... but he would carry that dishonour to the grave, and like it or not it would rest upon his Chapter forevermore.

At least if he tried and failed, he could say that every effort was made to uphold his end of the bargin. There is no shame in failing to become a Space Marine; all aspirants go to the Trials knowing they will never return home, and they are quickly made aware that death is a distinct possibility. These girls went knowing the risks, knowing death was surely certain. Thus, by accepting them, Honour is satisfied.

 

How is it possible? As the article on this site states, GW has made Female Marine models before. Likewise, it is not stated in modern fluff that the aspirant must be male. There is, at best, a farcical comment about "male hormones and tissues", but that is meaningless. Testosterone is found in women, just in different amounts, and I know of no 'tissue' that is unique to men and not to women.

Thus, I choose to ignore that rather weak excuse, and instead adopt the explanation that the geneseed was specifically engineered for the biological conditions of male puberty. Given that the Mechanicum can produce Skitarii - genetically and biologically augmented super-Guard, and given that we have seen quite often that Astartes (and arguably anyone outside the Cult Mechanicus who thinks they can get away with it) are quite happy to innovate solutions to problems where no existing answer presents itself (see the Redeemer, Hyperios, Marauder Destroyer, etc), I feel it is not beyond the realms of possibility that an Apothecary knows how to alter the hormonal balance of a young girl to induce 'male' puberty.

 

What keeps the Ad-Mech away? About a thousnd Bolters, plus assorted other small arms, heavy weapons, tanks, emplaced guns, orbital weapon platforms and starships.

Seriously, this is a SPACE MARINE CHAPTER we're talking about. The typical response to anyone trying to stick their nose into their business is ":tu: off." The Adeptus Mechanicus are not welcome to poke around Tasal as and when they feel like, and as such they are arguably unaware the Adepta even exist.

 

Besides which, as I have said elsewhere, I do not for a moment believe the Adepta would be a gaint pair of tits restrained in a power-armoured bikini. Hell, in most of what I've written containing Female Marines, even without a helmet on other Astartes don't spot they are female. At worst, there's some questions about haircuts, but Supernovas would hardly be the first Chapter in history to sport Marines with ponytails on Male Marines, let alone Female ones.

[Gree]

"Impossible" is just a word meaning "I am too lazy to explain it." Very few things are truly "impossible" in 40K; at best, they are simply rediculously hard to plausibly explain. Adepta Astartes do not come close.

To be clear, nowhere does it state "it is impossible for a woman to be a Space Marine." Instead, it just mentions men. It tells us men are recruited, and that men become Space Marines. They've done the same thing with the Imperial Guard for decades, and yet nobody seemed to bat an eyelid when the first books appeared with Female Guardsman, or when the Tanith model range included *gasp* women dressed like they were soldiers!

 

"These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte. With the completion of organ implantation and attendant chemical and hypnotic training, the subject becomes an initiate. An initiate receives training before joining the ranks as a full brother. A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18, but such are the hormonal changes induced by the process of creating a Space Marine that recruits are physically fully grown before then. Pressures during wartime may accelerate the process. " -Index Astartes I

[JamesI]

A couple of quick points.

 

1) there is nothing to be gained by accusing people of being sexist or by swearing in violation of Forum rules.

 

2) There is also nothing to be gained by just rejecting an idea (such as female space marines) out of hand. Anyone who doesn't want to be in a female space marine discussion, don't post in this thread.

 

 

Now, Gree has covered the in Universe cannon about female space marines. That does not mean this thread should die off, there have been some good examples in the past of female space marines.

[Wargamer]

"These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening. If these tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte. With the completion of organ implantation and attendant chemical and hypnotic training, the subject becomes an initiate. An initiate receives training before joining the ranks as a full brother. A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18, but such are the hormonal changes induced by the process of creating a Space Marine that recruits are physically fully grown before then. Pressures during wartime may accelerate the process. " -Index Astartes I

Your point being?

 

I am well aware that source exists - I've cited it plenty of times, and I've already debunked it as meaningless.

 

There is no such thing as a male hormone or male tissue. Furthermore, this reference is not present in other sources published later. Codex: Space Marines (5th Edition) does not specify the need for females, or indeed males for that matter. Rather, it states only that "Aspirants must always be chosen when they are young." ... Huh, I seem to recall reading novels about adults being made into Space Marines. Strange...

 

Let's try some other sources for a moment.

 

Codex: Blood Angels is next on my pile... nope. It says "Youths" or "Aspirants." It doesn't mention gender at all.

Codex: Space Wolves is next - and again, no mention gender. It stipulates they take 'young warriors', nothing more.

Codex: Dark Angels now. Well, I found the word "he" - "he [the Space Marine Scout] is neither fully a Space Marine nor entirely Human. Personally, I don't consider that evidence; D&D always refers to player characters in the female, even when the example characters are male.

 

I'm getting kind of desperate, so I'm going to have to dig deeper. Codex: Space Marines (Fourth edition) states that "When a Chapter selects a potential recruit ... they accept a new son into their family." Nowhere does it state, however, that only men can be chosen and no mention of 'male hormones or tissues' is made anywhere.

Codex: Space Marines (Third edition) states virutally nothing about requirements, but there's a few bits and pieces that reference 'youths' of around 10-12 being chosen and tested.

 

Let's be honest - my sources win. I've got more of them, and they're newer than what you're quoting - three 5th Edition sources fail to mention 'male only' as a requirement, and I've got a few 4th edition ones that do not state it either; at best, they vaguely hint at it.

 

I'm afraid I remain unconvinced as to why this is an impossibility. Impractical certainly... but impossible? Hardly.

 

Also, I find it funny how people managed to completely fail to read the rest of the article...

[SnakeoilSage]

He's right. If it were possible, the Sisters of Battle would be gene-enhanced, too.

[Wargamer]

He's right. If it were possible, the Sisters of Battle would be gene-enhanced, too.

Who said they aren't? Perhaps there are laws to state the Ecclesiarchy cannot have Astartes at their beck and call (it would explain why the Ordo Hereticus have no Chapter Militant, whereas the Malleus and Xenos do...) and thus they cannot turn the Sisters into Astartes by law.

[Gree]

Your point being?

 

That the fluff is quite clear on that regard. The geneseed is only suitable for males and male tissue samples. You asked were the fluff stated that it was impossible for a woman to become a Space Marine, and I pointed it out.

[Octavulg]

"Impossible" is just a word meaning "I am too lazy to explain it." Very few things are truly "impossible" in 40K; at best, they are simply rediculously hard to plausibly explain. Adepta Astartes doe not come close.

 

In universe. As in "the people in the fictional world of 40K believe female Space Marines are impossible."

 

Why try? Honour. What other reason need there be?

 

So your chapter master chose to risk wasting the chapter's geneseed, the precious irreplacable future of the chapter, the genetic legacy of his forefathers sanctified by the Emperor, because some Serf didn't do his research.

 

Also, you do realize that any low-tech (or, arguably, high-tech) culture that sends the women out to fight while the men stay home is doing things the stupidest of stupid ways, right? If only from a reproductive standpoint.

 

Also also, what kind of serf wouldn’t know about the most infamous raiders on his home world?

 

How is it possible? As the article on this site states, GW has made Female Marine models before. Likewise, it is not stated in modern fluff that the aspirant must be male. There is, at best, a farcical comment about "male hormones and tissues", but that is meaningless. Testosterone is found in women, just in different amounts, and I know of no 'tissue' that is unique to men and not to women.

 

The comment is meaningless because it disagrees with you, not because what it says is meaningless. Among other things, male tissues are composed of cells which have Y chromosomes. Find a female with THAT. Equally, find a female with pubescent male levels of testosterone.

 

You are interpreting the statement to mean "possessed exclusively by males" as opposed to "in the forms and quantities possessed by males".

 

Let's be honest - my sources win. I've got more of them, and they're newer than what you're quoting - three 5th Edition sources fail to mention 'male only' as a requirement, and I've got a few 4th edition ones that do not state it either; at best, they vaguely hint at it.

 

...You're serious, aren't you?

 

None of your sources say “women can do it”. There are no examples of women doing it. The male pronoun is used exclusively throughout (though, of course, there are male Howling Banshees, where the female pronoun is used exclusively, and female Farseers, where the male pronoun is used exclusively).

 

So we have: one source that says women can’t do it, no examples of women doing it, and a bunch of other sources that are arguably neutral but lean toward “women can’t do it” (exclusively male language, no counterexamples within the sources, many examples of male language being used where neutral language would be expected).

 

That adds up to “no”, not “yes”.

 

Thus, I choose to ignore that rather weak excuse, and instead adopt the explanation that the geneseed was specifically engineered for the biological conditions of male puberty. Given that the Mechanicum can produce Skitarii - genetically and biologically augmented super-Guard, and given that we have seen quite often that Astartes (and arguably anyone outside the Cult Mechanicus who thinks they can get away with it) are quite happy to innovate solutions to problems where no existing answer presents itself (see the Redeemer, Hyperios, Marauder Destroyer, etc), I feel it is not beyond the realms of possibility that an Apothecary knows how to alter the hormonal balance of a young girl to induce 'male' puberty.

 

Apothecaries in many chapters don't even understand the exact workings of geneseed. Modifying it is another issue altogether. And there's a big bloody difference between switching out a gun and genetic manipulation. And between messing with a Predator and messing with the Emperor-created sacred stuff that Marines are made of.

 

What keeps the Ad-Mech away? About a thousnd Bolters, plus assorted other small arms, heavy weapons, tanks, emplaced guns, orbital weapon platforms and starships.

Seriously, this is a SPACE MARINE CHAPTER we're talking about. The typical response to anyone trying to stick their nose into their business is "f- off." The Adeptus Mechanicus are not welcome to poke around Tasal as and when they feel like, and as such they are arguably unaware the Adepta even exist.

 

The Adeptus Mechanicus controls over 10% of Imperial worlds. Each of those worlds has a Titan Legion. If they want to come investigate, they can. Also, remember who trains Techmarines?

 

Also, I find it funny how people managed to completely fail to read the rest of the article...

 

What, you mean the bit about them being a lost Second Founding Space Wolves successor who missed the Heresy?

 

Or the bit where you named them the Superstars? :cuss

[ScottishSmurf96]

On the whole 'gene enhanced famale' subject, people are forgetting that the transformation to astartes is not the only gene enhancing method the Imperium has access to, for example skitarii are gene enhanced though not to the level astartes are and who says that there are not any female skitarii?

[Wargamer]

Your point being?

 

That the fluff is quite clear on that regard. The geneseed is only suitable for males and male tissue samples. You asked were the fluff stated that it was impossible for a woman to become a Space Marine, and I pointed it out.

 

:cuss Throne help me, but now I have to hit people on the head with the Stupid Quotes...

 

Codex: Imperial Guard (3rd Edition) states the Vanguisher was only produced on Tigrus and nowhere else.

Imperial Armour Volume 1 states the Vanquisher is produced on Gryphonne IV and Stygies VIII.

 

One of the Tau sources, I forget which, states that Nimbosa is under Tau control.

The Black Templars Codex disagrees.

 

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader states that the Space Wolves come from Lucan. and that the Flesh Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Crimson Fists, Silver Skulls and Rainbow Warriors are Legions, not Chapters.

Rogue Trader: Book of the Astronomicon says there's an Eldar Librarian in he Ultramarines.

 

And, of course, my favourite... "In the fullness of time we'll be producing a Harlequin Codex." - Jervis Johnson, Citadel Journal 39, 13th June 2000.

 

You, sir, are quoting old fluff. You have one source to back up your argument, and absolutely zero reasoning to back it up. This is not 4chan; "I'll just leave this here" is not how you communicate an idea. If you accept the notion that all old fluff is valid, then God help you explaining what I've just quoted for you, because given the reaction I've had over my Female Marines I am on the edge of my seat as to what this forum will do to you when they find out you believe Eldar can be Space Marines!

 

The alternative, of course, is to accept modern sources. In that case, I cite that the last three "Astartes" codices (Space Marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves) do not state anywhere that Marines cannot be female, nor do they state anything about 'male hormones and tissues' (a notion that doesn't even pass a common sense test, let alone anything else). In essence, sir, I have three sources telling me "Well, we're not saying you can't have Female Marines..." and you have one, rather dubious (and much older) source in your corner.

 

Perhaps you would be best to bring a coherent argument to the table along with your source material, so as to actually persuade me your point of view is worth considering?

[DarkLiege]

In the Guide to DIY, Ferrata have stated in the Don't section:

 

Don’t claim your marines are female

 

Rites of Initiation

"They [the recruit] must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types."

 

Female Marines come up every so often, frequently like buses in batches. Throughout all the background we are given, from codices to Black Library books to artwork, there has never been a mention or an image of female marines. Astartes are always male, even from the time of the Great Crusade when they could turn anyone into a marine. The main background support for this case is the quote to the right.

 

Okay, it is not fantastic science but this is science-fiction, we play in the universe given to us by the writers. Thankfully, we've had more of discussion on this which resulted in the first of the Librarium Debate threads (found here) and my own personal article on the matter (found here).

 

Besides this there are also an agurement between Ferrata and Doctor thunder about female space marines. here is the link to it, hope this help:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...showarticle=410

[Myxx]

I read it, and I liked most of it. I like how you have developed your Homeworld, I appreciate the variety in culture rather than the bland uniformity found in many IAs. The idea of the Weyes being a pilgrimage is pretty neat too (although I am not sure about making them company "owned"). Warrior women on the homeworld is also cool, I know the SW use them in the version of the Fenrisian PDF.

 

Regarding the female Marines, (my personal feeling is that it is impossible without the Y chromosome) my major critique would be the number of wasted implants. If 600 were implanted and only 20 survived, that is a failure of nearly 97%, a massive waste of an extremely limited resource, and enough to brand that experiment as a complete and total failure. Fluff wise, I see no problem with your chapter attempting it once (particularly with their distant and isolated realm) but to continue the practice with that kind of failure rate is almost the definition of stupidity.

 

Oh, and the theft of weapons, armor and gene-seed from other chapters after a battle is probably enough to be declared renegade and hated, or even hunted, by other chapters (much like the Astral Claws, if memory serves).

[Gree]

You, sir, are quoting old fluff. You have one source to back up your argument, and absolutely zero reasoning to back it up. This is not 4chan; "I'll just leave this here" is not how you communicate an idea. If you accept the notion that all old fluff is valid, then God help you explaining what I've just quoted for you, because given the reaction I've had over my Female Marines I am on the edge of my seat as to what this forum will do to you when they find out you believe Eldar can be Space Marines!

 

I have quoted it because there is no piece of fluff that contradicts it. All other sources simply do not specify otherwise. You are of course, free to ignore what bits of fluff you don’t like, that is your right as a poster, but right now this is what the fluff says.

 

I’m not quite sure why you are quoting the rest. All of those other sources either have contradictory fluff or simply have not been answered. We have had pieces of fluff suggesting that Eldar would not be accepted into the Imperial fold, much less become Space Marines. However we have no statement explicitly stating that women can become Space Marines.

 

I am disinclined to go any further as Octavulg has covered it in a much better fashion above. Perhaps you would like to read his post then?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

In that case, DAT, can we get a thread move? :)

Done.

 

Feel free to disapprove, but don't for an instant believe I will listen, or even give a :cuss, if you can't provide justification to back up your opinion.

By that attitude, why should we take the time to critique your IA? It's obvious that you don't believe our advice worth taking in this regard, and this is one of our very few untouchables, meaning as a whole we don't consider it. Breaking that shows you don't really care for anything we have to offer as this is so basic.

 

Look, I understand you've put a lot of effort into this, and I understand you've worked hard to try and justify this. I can identify, really, I had to work pretty hard to break the idea that traitor geneseed might work, and even then Ecritter made a chapter before I did.

 

However, just because you can - or believe you can - doesn't mean you should. What's the point? How exactly does this improve the chapter? Zippity do da, we've got female space marines! That's not adding character; that's a gimmick. All we'll ever do when we remember the Supernovas is go 'oh they were the chapter with female marines'. Compare that to the Red Lords, the mighter than thous who think that most enemies weren't even worthy of engaging in real combat so they shell them to keep their hands from getting dirty with that filth. How about the White Hands - reformed convicts who don't even consider their astarte status as making them worthy of anything but death. We could go with the Blazing Sons, too, warriors who both acknowledge the fact that they will always be undersupplied and outnumbered, and yet will not hesitate to charge enemy lines even if it will cost them much of their meagre resources.

 

Or you could go with 'oh, they have female marines'. Your choice, Wargamer. Just don't be surprised when we make ours.